Do you ever wonder about St Faustina?

[BarbaraTherese]

You haven’t read the diary, have you?

And you haven’t addressed this either:

Appeals to our pride do not come from God. Think about that for a moment.

Oh runaway willya!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif
Presuming again. Yes, I have read the diaries…although an almost 64yr old memory cannot recall each notebook word for word.

As to the second part…I have no intention of addressing your statements since you do not reference where you have drawn them from so I can have a look and come to my own conclusions.

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[StMartin_67]

The “original Polish” is what was suppressed.

Duh, did you not read what Michelle Arnold stated?
A: Because of faulty translations from the original Polish,

The “Duh” is yours. The original was examined and supressed. The translations are of no importance here. The translations weren’t suppressed and then placed on the Index; the original was.

 

[StMartin_67]

Oh runaway willya!
Presuming again. Yes, I have read the diaries…although an almost 64yr old memory cannot recall each notebook word for word.

As to the second part…I have no intention of addressing your statements since you do not reference where you have drawn them from so I can have a look and come to my own conclusions.

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You haven’t read it. Amazing.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

StMartin_67Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaraTherese forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
Oh runaway willya!
Presuming again. Yes, I have read the diaries…although an almost 64yr old memory cannot recall each notebook word for word.

As to the second part…I have no intention of addressing your statements since you do not reference where you have drawn them from so I can have a look and come to my own conclusions.

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You haven’t read it. Amazing.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_219.gif
Are you on drugs?..been drinking perhaps? I said that I have read the diaries.

Are you contradicting what The Holy Father had to say:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/homilies/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_20000430_faustina_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/img/vuoto.gif***HOMILY OF THE HOLY FATHER ***

MASS IN ST PETER’S SQUARE FOR THE CANONIZATION
OF SR MARY FAUSTINA KOWALSKA

Sunday, 30 April 2000

Divine Mercy reaches human beings through the heart of Christ crucified: “My daughter, say that I am love and mercy personified”, Jesus will ask Sr Faustina (*Diary, *p. 374). Christ pours out this mercy on humanity though the sending of the Spirit who, in the Trinity, is the Person-Love. And is not mercy love’s “second name” (cf. Dives in misericordia, n. 7), understood in its deepest and most tender aspect, in its ability to take upon itself the burden of any need and, especially, in its immense capacity for forgiveness? Today my joy is truly great in presenting the life and witness of *Sr Faustina Kowalska *to the whole Church as a gift of God for our time. By divine Providence, the life of this humble daughter of Poland was completely linked with the history of the 20th century, the century we have just left behind. In fact, it was between the First and Second World Wars that Christ entrusted his message of mercy to her. Those who remember, who were witnesses and participants in the events of those years and the horrible sufferings they caused for millions of people, know well how necessary was the message of mercy. Jesus told Sr Faustina: “Humanity will not find peace until it turns trustfully to divine mercy” (*Diary, *p. 132). Through the work of the Polish religious, this message has become linked for ever to the 20th century, the last of the second millennium and the bridge to the third. It is not a new message but can be considered a gift of special enlightenment that helps us to relive the Gospel of Easter more intensely, to offer it as a ray of light to the men and women of our time.

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20000430_faustina_en.html

Faustina was recorded in her *Diary *which she kept at the specific request of the Lord Jesus and her confessors. In it, she recorded faithfully all of the Lord Jesus’ wishes and also described the encounters between her soul and Him. *Secretary of My most profound mystery — *the Lord Jesus said toSr. Faustina — *know that your task is to write down everything that I make known to you about My mercy, for the benefit of those who by reading these things will be comforted in their souls and will have the courage to approach Me *(Diary 1693). In an extraordinary way, Sr. Mary Faustina’s work sheds light on the mystery of the Divine Mercy. It delights not only the simple and uneducated people, but also scholars who look upon it as an additional source of theo-logical research. The *Diary *has been translated into many languages, among others, English, German, Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Arabic, Russian, Hungarian, Czech and Slovak.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

The “Duh” is yours. The original was examined and supressed. The translations are of no importance here. The translations weren’t suppressed and then placed on the Index; the original was.

From Joysong’s Post:
catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0702qq.asp
Q: Why did the Church ban the Divine Mercy devotion from 1959 to 1978?

A: Because of faulty translations from the original Polish, St. Faustina Kowalska’s writings were considered doctrinally suspect, and so the Holy See suppressed the Divine Mercy devotion arising from those writings for about twenty years. Once the translations were corrected, the ban was lifted. The reversal of the suppression depended heavily upon the work of the Cardinal Archbishop of Krakow (Poland); the same year that the suppression was lifted (1978), that cardinal was elected pope and took the name John Paul II.
—Michelle Arnold

I think you are playing with words and do insight the various meanings contained in some comments in this thread…but are merely playing with words. I may be wrong, but that is my feeling.
The original was placed on the Index as the translation from the original Polish was faulty, which meant that the conclusion was made that the original and the faulty translation were the same. They were not and later the ban was lifted once it was realized that the translation was incorrect, a correct translation was then made meaning that the ban could be lifted and the original released from being banned.

Not rocket science!

I am coming out of this thread as I am now quite confident that all and any reader will insight that StMartin’s comments are quite incorrect and completely in the wrong and that devotion to The Divine Mercy message of St. Faustina is not in danger of being undermined by his/her comments.

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[StMartin_67]

Faustina wrote that God told her that His greatest attribute was mercy.

This is a very grave theological error and heretical. That’s why the supression was upheld and why it was placed on the Index.

There are other very odd things about the diary as well; like the way Our Lord said things about her which He never said to anybody else, such as how wonderful Sr. Faustina was. To St. Margaret Mary He said that she was nothing and that was why He chose her; to Sr. Faustina He said she was wonderful, lovely, delightful, and that was why he chose her.

Of course, we have her own word for this divine praise directed at her, but you know that already, don’t you? Or maybe not, have you read the Diary?

I notice that no one has specifically addressed the above; all you can do is provide silly comments with way too many emoticons.

 

[Eucharisted]

Faustina wrote that God told her that His greatest attribute was mercy.

This is a very grave theological error and heretical. That’s why the supression was upheld and why it was placed on the Index.

Quote:
There are other very odd things about the diary as well; like the way Our Lord said things about her which He never said to anybody else, such as how wonderful Sr. Faustina was. To St. Margaret Mary He said that she was nothing and that was why He chose her; to Sr. Faustina He said she was wonderful, lovely, delightful, and that was why he chose her.

Of course, we have her own word for this divine praise directed at her, but you know that already, don’t you? Or maybe not, have you read the Diary?

No, what Jesus said was His greatest attributes were Love and Mercy.

And He spoke the same way at times to other women who He’d espoused.

 

[bilop]

I notice that no one has specifically addressed the above; all you can do is provide silly comments with way too many emoticons.

And I noticed you didn’t specifically address this:

Roma Locuta Est. Causa Finita Est.

Let me translate. Rome has spoken. The case is closed.

Do you reject the infallibility of the Church in declaring Saints?

God Bless

 

[StMartin_67]

And I noticed you didn’t specifically address this:

Roma Locuta Est. Causa Finita Est.

Let me translate. Rome has spoken. The case is closed.

Do you reject the infallibility of the Church in declaring Saints?

God Bless

I’m not disputing the canonization of Sr. Faustina. I’m questioning the diary she is supposed to have written that was supressed and then placed on the Index of Forbidden Books. They are not the same thing, although I realize you’d like them to be.

Do you reject the infallibility of the Church in declaring Saints?

No, the canonizations of the Church fall under the General Infallibility of the Church.

 

[StMartin_67]

No, what Jesus said was His greatest attributes were Love and Mercy.

And He spoke the same way at times to other women who He’d espoused.

God is His attributes. He is infinite Justice and He is infinite Mercy. One cannot be “greater” than the other. This is a Dogma.

 

[Indyann]

“For the judgement is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgement.”
NAB James 2:13

 

[Eucharisted]

God is His attributes. He is infinite Justice and He is infinite Mercy. One cannot be “greater” than the other. This is a Dogma.

Yes, I am aware that God is Love itself, Mercy itself, Holiness itself, Justice itself, Existence itself, etc. He is God, after all.

I am no theologian, though, so I cannot explain what Jesus meant. I can only tell you what He said, which I have.

Now if you don’t like St. Faustina’s diary, that dosen’t mean you shouldn’t like St. Faustina. She has been canonized by the Church, so the Church has judged she lived a holy life and performed heroic acts of charity.

The Church also says that you don’t have to accept a saint’s words, or diary, or revelations - all you have to accept is Public Revelation, which ended with the death of the last Apostle.

 

[StMartin_67]

Yes, I am aware that God is Love itself, Mercy itself, Holiness itself, Justice itself, Existence itself, etc. He is God, after all.

I am no theologian, though, so I cannot explain what Jesus meant. I can only tell you what He said, which I have.

The fact is that God’s infinite Mercy cannot be “greater” that his infinite Justice. I understand your point and I agree with it; but I believe you are referring to the application of mercy and justice; not the attributes of infinite Justice and Mercy, which God IS. Any offense against an infinite God requires an infinite attonement that is not possible for us creatures. God’s infinite Mercy is applied to us in a greater manner than his Justice; He requires less attonement than is due, and He applies less Justice than is due Him.

And He gave us His Son; the greatest act of Mercy.

Now if you don’t like St. Faustina’s diary, that dosen’t mean you shouldn’t like St. Faustina. She has been canonized by the Church, so the Church has judged she lived a holy life and performed heroic acts of charity.

I never commented on her specifically.

The Church also says that you don’t have to accept a saint’s words, or diary, or revelations - all you have to accept is Public Revelation, which ended with the death of the last Apostle.

This brings up another topic, which is the nature of the “Divine Mercy Feast” as a private revelation. It is a novelty.

 

[StMartin_67]

“For the judgement is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgement.”
NAB James 2:13

God is His attributes. He is infinite Justice and He is infinite Mercy. One cannot be “greater” than the other. This is a Dogma.

See the post prior to this one.

 

[Eucharisted]

The fact is that God’s infinite Mercy cannot be “greater” that his infinite Justice. I understand your point and I agree with it; but I believe you are referring to the application of mercy and justice; not the attributes of infinite Justice and Mercy, which God IS. Any offense against an infinite God requires an infinite attonement that is not possible for us creatures. God’s infinite Mercy is applied to us in a greater manner than his Justice; He requires less attonement than is due, and He applies less Justice than is due Him.

And He gave us His Son; the greatest act of Mercy.

I never commented on her specifically.

This brings up another topic, which is the nature of the “Divine Mercy Feast” as a private revelation. It is a novelty.

Of course God’s attributes cannot be greater than each other. Nothing is greater than God Himself. He is the Absolute Good.

But what you keep forgetting is that Jesus said His Love and His Mercy are His greatest attributes. He didn’t say His Mercy but His Love and Mercy. I’m no theologian, but His words would appear to be correct and in line with Catholicism: God created us, redeemed us, and now sanctifies us out of love and mercy, so it would be proper to say His greatest attributes are Love and Mercy.

 

[StMartin_67]

Of course God’s attributes cannot be greater than each other. Nothing is greater than God Himself. He is the Absolute Good.

But what you keep forgetting is that Jesus said His Love and His Mercy are His greatest attributes. He didn’t say His Mercy but His Love and Mercy. I’m no theologian, but His words would appear to be correct and in line with Catholicism: God created us, redeemed us, and now sanctifies us out of love and mercy, so it would be proper to say His greatest attributes are Love and Mercy.

But what you keep forgetting is that Jesus said His Love and His Mercy are His greatest attributes.

You just said this is impossible; as attributes.

The expression “greatest attribute” is not analogical.

God also speaks of His Justice. Which is precisely what is being ignored in this whole conversation.

“Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Justice…”

“If you love Me, keep My commandments…”

 

[Joysong]

Dear friends,

There are two entries in the Diary that speak of the attribute of God’s mercy.

180 +During Advent, a great yearning for God arose in my soul. My spirit rushed toward God with all its might. During that time, the Lord gave me much light to know His attributes.

The first attribute which the Lord gave me to know is His holiness. His holiness is so great that all the Powers and Virtues tremble before Him. The pure spirits veil their faces and lose themselves in unending adoration, and with one single word they express the highest form of adoration; that is-Holy… The holiness of God is poured out upon the Church of God and upon every living soul in it, but not in the same degree. There are souls who are completely penetrated by God, and there are those who are barely alive.

The second kind of knowledge which the Lord granted me concerns His justice. His justice is so great and penetrating that it reaches deep into the heart of things, and all things stand before Him in naked truth, and nothing can withstand Him.

The third attribute is love and mercy. And I understood that the greatest attribute is love and mercy. It unites the creature with the Creator. This immense love and abyss of mercy are made known in the Incarnation of the Word and in the Redemption [of humanity], and it is here that I saw this as the greatest of all God’s attributes.

saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS4.shtml

301 Proclaim that mercy is the greatest attribute of God. All the works of My hands are crowned with mercy.

saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS7.shtml

The latter statement was alleged by StMartin to be the actual reason for the Diary’s suppression, but we see that full approval to publish has been given by the Vatican and the “proclamation” directive by Our Lord to St. Faustina remains unaltered in the approved publication that contains the Church’s Imprimatur.

It is scandalous to place one’s own “theology” above the Church’s teaching. StMartin has never provided a single source for his statements, but expects that Catholics reading this thread will just believe him because HE says so.

 

[StMartin_67]

Dear friends,

There are two entries in the Diary that speak of the attribute of God’s mercy.

Yes, I know.

joysong:

The latter statement was alleged by StMartin to be the actual reason for the Diary’s suppression

It was one of the reasons; it is a very sustantial theological error. The quote you provided is supposedly directly from Our Lord and it is in error. Don’t you see a problem with an apparition that claims Our Lord said something that is erroneous at best?

This is just one way the Holy Office looked at whether a supposed apparition was of supernatural origin.

joysong:

but we see that full approval to publish has been given by the Vatican and the “proclamation” directive by Our Lord to St. Faustina remains unaltered in the approved publication that contains the Church’s Imprimatur.

I can show you some awful books today that carry an imprimatur.

joysong:

It is scandalous to place one’s own “theology” above the Church’s teaching.

It’s not my theology; it is the Church’s theology. God is His attributes; He is infinite mercy and infinite justice. Go look it up in any dogmatic theology manual. I’m looking at Pohle-Preuss, God: His Knowability Essence and Attributes, Monsignor Joseph Pohle, PhD., D.D., B. Herder Book Co., 1918. And look at that, this book has an Imprimatur as well!

joysong:

StMartin has never provided a single source for his statements, but expects that Catholics reading this thread will just believe him because HE says so.

No, it’s just very basic dogmatic theology. When you do some research on it you can come back and discuss it with us.

 

[Joysong]

At first, StMartin, I had strong suspicions of your identity after a search on striking similarities proved true, but now you have removed all doubt in your last post. I wonder why banned people with the same disruptive and argumentative personalities that caused their demise, resurrect so quickly and begin their onslaughts all over again.

Anybody wanna wager a guess?

No way will I answer any of your taunting posts.

 

[StMartin_67]

At first, StMartin, I had strong suspicions of your identity after a search on striking similarities proved true, but now you have removed all doubt in your last post. I wonder why banned people with the same disruptive and argumentative personalities that caused their demise, resurrect so quickly and begin their onslaughts all over again.

Anybody wanna wager a guess?

No way will I answer any of your taunting posts.

Strange.