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spedteacherita
Guest
Thank you for that explanation!! I work “out” my salvation daily thru prayer, conscious good works, being in and with the Word, and going to church and receive the sacrament of Communion.
Thanks!
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Thanks!
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simonmic
Guest
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spedteacherita
Guest
I don’t know your situation and I don’t presume to step in and say, If you do ‘so and so’ or ‘such and such’ that you would be able to pray.
What I wanted to share is that when I find it difficult to pray I depend on the Holy Spirit to take what I want to say and convey that to God the Father. (Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.)
Another strategy I use is to go to the Psalms…pray the Psalms…so many that say the things I want to say or convey the emotions that I can find no words for.
God Bless!!
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simonmic
Guest
Thank you for your comments spedteacherita.
I find it difficult to believe so…I can’t add anymore.
I find it difficult to believe so…I can’t add anymore.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Unfortunately, that poster took only ONE sentence/phrase from my whole post.
I do not fear hell - I do, tho, have doubts now and then about my salvation based on my sinful nature.
His question to me was: “*If you have doubts about your salvation then how can you not fear hell? *”
I continued on with, "That said, tho, I live daily in my Hope of the saving grace that Jesus died for on the cross. I feel so little in comparison of the greatness that He showed us in His work on Earth and all that He did from creation until the end of life.
I do nothing and did nothing to have earned this…my baptism, weekly ability to share in His body and blood, and my daily walk with my Lord assures me that I will be there in Heaven once I pass thru death.
You are precious to our Lord and you are doing the right thing here in this thread. You are here, asking questions, expressing doubts, seeking answers. You have many good friends, who you may never meet until heaven, who are giving you some great advice/info/food for thought.
I will pray for you and your quest to find Peace within you found in our God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
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followingtheway
Guest
I’m absolutely terrified of it, yes.
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spedteacherita
Guest
She’s right, Simon, just take one step at a time, one moment at a time. We can overwhelm ourselves when we look to the outcome we want or think we see. Just start small…take the baby steps and understand that you will find yourself falling like a little child does but you get back up and start taking those small steps again…This is my suggestion.If you have a desire to return to your Catholic faith,don’t worry about all the details ,God will help you work those out.Maybe just take that first step?
Re the Catechism,good for you ,that you are considering studying it.Just a suggestion,check your diocese to see if there are any classes ,studying the Catechism,I participated in such a study a few years back.It was amazing!I have such a better understanding of our faith.Actually as a cradle Catholic,product of Catholic. schools,I now realized just how little I actually understood our faith.
Again, prayers…
Rita
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simonmic
Guest
Thanks again…Both of you.
I need to see for myself i guess.
I need to see for myself i guess.
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spedteacherita
Guest
I don’t believe in OSAS. You are misunderstanding me. I love my Lord with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my being…can demons do that?Even the demons believe, and they shudder. I was not aware that Lutherans believed in OSAS, but my comment had to do with the fact that you doubted your salvation at times. In that case, I would think fear of hell would be appropriate. I too have great confidence (not certainty) that I will be saved, but I still fear hell. It helps keep me honest.
My life here on earth is a struggle against my sinful nature…Paul struggled with his as well -
Romans 7:19
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do–this I keep on doing.
Do I fear Hell? Sure! Anyone in their right mind should! Do I fear that I’m going there? No. From the deepest part of my inmost being…no. Do I have doubts? Of course! Temptations? Yup!
In another post (not sure if it’s this thread) I stated that I am in a constant state of conversion…it’s not static…my flesh fights with my soul…but in the end it is ALWAYS Christ who wins.
He won this for me, you and everyone on that day that He allowed His body to be maimed, battered and mutilated as a sacrifice for us. He is the propitiation for my sins and your sins. The Apostolic Creed states that He descended into Hell - why?? to proclaim His victory over Satan!! He rose from the grave after 3 days and ascended into Heaven! Thanks be to God!
THAT, friend in Christ, is why I KNOW I am NOT going to Hell!
I appreciate the “debate” but I think I’ve made myself clear. I’m sure that there are many things I’ve said that could be picked out and debated but I won’t do any more on this thread…Thanks and God Bless!
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SteveVH
Guest
Actually he did not descend into hell (as we know it) to proclaim his victory. He descended to the abode of the dead to deliver the souls who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom (as opposed to the damned). His resurrection was the proclamation of victory over sin, death and hell.
Sorry. Didn’t mean to upset you.
Steve
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spedteacherita
Guest
Thanks for the clarification here on the descent into Hell question.Actually he did not descend into hell (as we know it) to proclaim his victory. He descended to the abode of the dead to deliver the souls who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom (as opposed to the damned). His resurrection was the proclamation of victory over sin, death and hell.
Thanks for the clarification here.
Looking back at my last statement I see I was more curt than I should have been. I’ve been a member here long enough to know that I need to be prepared to defend my statements. I get passionate about what I believe to be true and especially so when it concerns my faith. No hard feelings Steve
Sorry. Didn’t mean to upset you.
Steve
Looking back at my last statement I see I that I was more curt than I should have been. I’ve been a member here long enough to know that I need to be prepared to defend my statements. I get passionate about what I believe to be true and especially so when it concerns my faith. No hard feelings Steve
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Randy_Carson
Guest
1 Timothy 4:16New International Version (NIV)
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
If?
What IF Timothy doesn’t persevere in his life and doctrine?
The implication is that he will NOT be saved…
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spedteacherita
Guest
Very true!! And I am always turning to my Lord with shame for those sins I commit both willfully and unconsciously. There is my confidence!!! I recognize that if I were to die at any moment He knows my heart, He knows that I am a sinner but He loves me just the same!!! I’m so filled with love that comes from living my life with Him - no other person in my life has laid down their life for me.Exactly!The OSAS concept just doesn’t make sense to me.We are sinful beings,will will continue to be sinful.It is through the humility of coming before Our Lord,through the Sacrament of Reconciliation,that we receive the grace to persevere in overcoming our sinful habit.If we can just go through life ,with confidence that no mater what ,if we just accept Jesus,our salvation is guaranteed what is to keep us from behaving with impunity?
I don’t believe in “once saved always saved” but I do believe that there is nothing I can do on my part to help myself or others to gain entrance into life eternal with God. Because I love Him I want to be with Him and that is why I go to worship, experience Holy Communion, celebrate my baptism birthday, be in the Word and anything else that will keep my focus on Him…to keep me fed…
Steve and Jeanne, I know I said I was done with the debate here, but I still want to clarify that I don’t believe that because I made a statement of faith some 30ish years ago that I could just go out and live my life without being fed. My relationship with Christ is MUCH deeper than that. He walks with me daily and I am certain that He will be there for me at the point of my life’s end to welcome me Home…
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cheezey
Guest
II wonder if we can know for absolute sure til or unless we get there…
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SJacob7
Guest
Just a clarification. James 9:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. (emphasis added)Even the demons believe, and they shudder. I was not aware that Lutherans believed in OSAS, but my comment had to do with the fact that you doubted your salvation at times. In that case, I would think fear of hell would be appropriate. I too have great confidence (not certainty) that I will be saved, but I still fear hell. It helps keep me honest.
That’s a little different than saying 'even the demons believe…
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SJacob7
Guest
What if he doesn’t persevere?1 Timothy 4:16New International Version (NIV)
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
If?
What IF Timothy doesn’t persevere in his life and doctrine?
The implication is that he will NOT be saved…
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Being afraid of not going to hell and avoiding sin because of hell, will not get anybody into heaven.
We love God with our whole heart and mind and soul with all our strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves…this we basically see as the path to heaven…
Problem is how do we know we are truly loving God or how much? or how much do we love our neighbor that is sufficient?..or how many times we have failed God or our neighbor because of our selfishness…and then looking back we see what we have done?
I believe we are called to continually understand God more so we can love Him more and likewise our neighbor through religious education and self examination and monthly confession if possible.
Bottom line is I am know I am a sinner and have failed the Lord and neighbor…but try to do my best and most of all trust in His great Mercy.
Drac16 and others here…I will offer Sunday Mass for you and your intentions.
We love God with our whole heart and mind and soul with all our strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves…this we basically see as the path to heaven…
Problem is how do we know we are truly loving God or how much? or how much do we love our neighbor that is sufficient?..or how many times we have failed God or our neighbor because of our selfishness…and then looking back we see what we have done?
I believe we are called to continually understand God more so we can love Him more and likewise our neighbor through religious education and self examination and monthly confession if possible.
Bottom line is I am know I am a sinner and have failed the Lord and neighbor…but try to do my best and most of all trust in His great Mercy.
Drac16 and others here…I will offer Sunday Mass for you and your intentions.
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Indifferently
Guest
I will go to heaven, because Jesus Christ died for me and his death and merits are a hundred percent effective at accomplishing the salvation of his people.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
I agree with all you said.Re avoidance of sin out of fear of hell,usually is the starting point for most who long for Heaven.Eventually as one grows in their love for God,their hatred of sin increases because they don’t want to offen God,whom as you said,we are to love with all of our strength. This is called filial fear.
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jmcrae
Guest
St. Paul also knew that if he persevered in his path, he would also go to Heaven - which he did.
St. Paul never says anything that means, “I don’t know if I’m going to Heaven, or not.” He says things that come out to mean, “Lord, help me stay on the path to Heaven.”
When you come out of the Confessional, assuming you have made a good Confession, your feet are on the path to Heaven. It’s your job to keep them there, and to keep on walking in the right direction. We can know how to do this because of the teachings of the Church, which provide the light for our eyes. We are not left in the dark.
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