Do you fear the rise of Islam in the West?

[fkjuliano]

I know this is politically incorrect, and I may get a ridiculous warning from that ninja guy if he’s still around, but I’ve become gradually more convinced that Islam is, in fact, Satanic.

What other kind of religion would put forth a man who (according to its own sacred scripture) committed acts of banditry, rape, pedophilia, and murder and claim him to be a prophet and the Perfect Man whom all should imitate? What other kind of religion would seek to ban all beauty from the world, by proscribing art, music, and the faces of women from being seen in public? What kind of religion would be mean enough to deprecate man’s best friend, calling them filthy and claiming angels don’t enter a house where there is a dog? What kind of religion would destroy the possibility of real love between a man and a woman by reinstituting polygamy and making women the chattel of men?

Above all, what kind of religion would claim the Bible is corrupted and would make it its business to deny Christ’s divinity. At the so-called Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, that’s what that flowing Arabic calligraphy says.

So, yes, I’m very afraid of Islam. God loves Muslims, and there are some Muslims who are genuinely good people despite the teaching of their religion. Of course, many of those good-hearted Muslims eventually abandon Islam, though most of those must keep their apostasy secret since it carries the death penalty under Sharia law.

I too am consoled by Matthew 16:18, which has already been cited. Before those gates of Hades give way, however, Islam will cause unimaginable pain and grief to Christians, even more so than it did in past centuries.

To end on a positive note, this video shows the true story of an Egyptian Muslim who went from terrorist training camp to faith in Christ. I find it very touching.

 

[LogosSokratikos]

Of course one should fear Islam, because militant Islam (not all Islam is militant, just as not all Catholics are militant terrorists like Guy Fawkes or the people who bomb abortion clinics) is a danger in any society, even islamic ones!

Militant Islam is the child of politics gone to heck, in other words the deep frustration of youth without opportunity who have been preached that other people are the enemies of Islam and therefore must die and if they die defending Islam they will go to heaven.

On the other hand, the Western World had something far worse, far bloodier, called the Catholic Church. I will not repeat to you what educated people already know: centuries of inquisitions and crusades. BUT, civil society stepped in and created human rights, so even this bloody and very powerful institution got its teeth pulled out.

So even when the clout of the RCC was immense, influencing the majority of society in more than half of Western European countries, it could be disarmed.

Islam doesn’t have such clout. So if civil society and its secular rule of law could stop the church of more than 90% of the population, it can handle Islam single handed.

We did it once we can do it again.

So I see no need for paranoia. All we need to do is teach our children to think clearly, to reason things through instead of taking things “by faith”, hatred or paranoia.

Also, look at it this way: Muslims are reasonable, moral people like anyone else --they wouldn’t want their new countries of adoption to become the hell-holes they ran away from.

 

[fkjuliano]

There’s a difference between dead and having a severe case of the flu.

Copts were the majority into the 14th century.

It makes no sense to excuse Islamic persecution of Coptic Christians because it didn’t reach its peak of severity until later. The important points about Islamic persecution in Egypt are:

1. 
   *]It occurred
   *]It was severe enough to convert most of the population
   *]It continues to this day and is accelerating under the Muslim Brotherhood
   

   There’s a difference between dead and having a severe case of the flu.
   
   Actually Iraq was 5% Christian just before the invasion by the US in 2003. The severity of the decline is a direct result of the invasion.

   No, you are mistaken. The severity of the decline is an indirect result of the invasion and there is a huge difference between the two. A direct result of the invasion would if the American troops had driven out or killed Iraqi Christians, which obviously wasn’t the case. What happened, rather, was that the invasion allowed Iraqi Muslims, who had been kept in check by an iron-fisted dictator, to go ahead and indulge their desire for kafir blood. Pretty much the same thing is happening in Egypt after the removal of a less murderous dictator, and in Syria as well. I think it’s entirely fair to call it a pattern.
   
   By the way, have you watched Islam: What the West Needs to Know? I think you and the other well-meaning folks who see Islam as benign would have a difficult time holding on to that point of view after seeing this rather sober film.

 

[Randy_Carson]

What are your views on the demographic shifts in Western countries and the rise of Islam? Do you think this is a threat to Christianity? Do you think that Muslim immigration needs to be stopped? What is to be done?

Islam will overcome Europe without firing a shot because Europeans have lost their faith in Christ and are contracepting themselves out of existence.

 

[fkjuliano]

Islam will overcome Europe without firing a shot because Europeans have lost their faith in Christ and are contracepting themselves out of existence.

That does look like the trend right now. The worst thing is that America is on the same path to doom regarding both contraception and Muslim immigration, only 20 or so years behind.

Perhaps there will be a miracle.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

.

It makes no sense to excuse Islamic persecution of Coptic Christians because it didn’t reach its peak of severity until later. The important points about Islamic persecution in Egypt are:

1. 
   *]It occurred
   *]It was severe enough to convert most of the population
   *]It continues to this day and is accelerating under the Muslim Brotherhood
   
   No, you are mistaken. The severity of the decline is an indirect result of the invasion and there is a huge difference between the two. A direct result of the invasion would if the American troops had driven out or killed Iraqi Christians, which obviously wasn’t the case. What happened, rather, was that the invasion allowed Iraqi Muslims, who had been kept in check by an iron-fisted dictator, to go ahead and indulge their desire for kafir blood. Pretty much the same thing is happening in Egypt after the removal of a less murderous dictator, and in Syria as well. I think it’s entirely fair to call it a pattern.
   
   By the way, have you watched Islam: What the West Needs to Know? I think you and the other well-meaning folks who see Islam as benign would have a difficult time holding on to that point of view after seeing this rather sober film.

1. 
   My point was that it was slow and generally not violent.
   
   Indeed it is, sadly in America all too frequently I must contort the English language to be understood.
   
   It wasn’t just because of them being kafirs, it was because they were the same religion as their invaders.
   

   That does look like the trend right now. The worst thing is that America is on the same path to doom regarding both contraception and Muslim immigration, only 20 or so years behind.
   
   Perhaps there will be a miracle.

   America has too many people for non-muslims to be outnumbered in the forseeable future.

 

[Zosimus41]

What are your views on the demographic shifts in Western countries and the rise of Islam? Do you think this is a threat to Christianity? Do you think that Muslim immigration needs to be stopped? What is to be done?

Hhmmm our presidents name is Barack Hussein Obama or is it Barry Obama?

We are living in strange times. Things seem to be upside down.

Muslims are divided among themselves just depends on what facet of the muslim world takes hold if any at all.

We are so worried about offending any one trying to be so politically correct we end up being our own worst enemy.

Threats to Christianity have already taken place. We have taken God out of the public schools and courtrooms.

Muslims have all rights to get upset about mohamed jokes in the public arena however when it comes to art work like the Virgin Mary being covered in feces we idly stand by
and accept any insults that come our way.

Its insanity.

 

[lerapt78]

What are your views on the demographic shifts in Western countries and the rise of Islam? Do you think this is a threat to Christianity? Do you think that Muslim immigration needs to be stopped? What is to be done?

I don’t really fear Islam per se, though I am troubled to see the demographic changes that have taken place in the west over the past century. I support European nationalism.

What we need to remember is that Islam, much like Christianity is a religion that has spread across a vast diversity of cultures and ethnicities. Pakistanis are very different than Iranians and Moroccans are very different than Somalis, though they almost all follow some form of Islam. Just as the Irish are different than Austrians, and the Portuguese are very different than the Polish, even though they almost all follow Catholicism. I don’t know if the Islamic population of Europe is primarily from countries where the native mentality is to adopt a more “militant” stance, but here in the U.S. I have never personally observed any of the “Behead those who insult Islam” types.

The U.S. immigration debate is a bit more complicated, due to the history of the nation’s founding, however I am very much against Islamic immigration in Europe, as well as Chinese, South American, Jewish, African, etc. immigration. This is because I respect the right of the native European peoples to dominate their own lands and preserve their genes and cultures.

I *also *support the right of Muslims in their respective countries to live life in peace, so that they can preserve their own ways of life, unmolested by western influence and military occupation. I wonder how many westeners consider that point of view, as we go about spreading “democracy” to those who didn’t ask for it.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I don’t really fear Islam per se, though I am troubled to see the demographic changes that have taken place in the west over the past century. I support European nationalism.

What we need to remember is that Islam, much like Christianity is a religion that has spread across a vast diversity of cultures and ethnicities. Pakistanis are very different than Iranians and Moroccans are very different than Somalis, though they almost all follow some form of Islam. Just as the Irish are different than Austrians, and the Portuguese are very different than the Polish, even though they almost all follow Catholicism. I don’t know if the Islamic population of Europe is primarily from countries where the native mentality is to adopt a more “militant” stance, but here in the U.S. I have never personally observed any of the “Behead those who insult Islam” types.

The U.S. immigration debate is a bit more complicated, due to the history of the nation’s founding, however I am very much against Islamic immigration in Europe, as well as Chinese, South American, Jewish, African, etc. immigration. This is because I respect the right of the native European peoples to dominate their own lands and preserve their genes and cultures.

I *also *support the right of Muslims in their respective countries to live life in peace, so that they can preserve their own ways of life, unmolested by western influence and military occupation. I wonder how many westeners consider that point of view, as we go about spreading “democracy” to those who didn’t ask for it.

I wholeheartedly agree with you except on one thing:

Just because the United States has accepted immigration in the past doesn’t mean that it difficult to put limits. We have done it several times in the past two hundred years, to preserve the country’s British-inspired cultural heritage.

 

[lerapt78]

I wholeheartedly agree with you except on one thing:

Just because the United States has accepted immigration in the past doesn’t mean that it difficult to put limits. We have done it several times in the past two hundred years, to preserve the country’s British-inspired cultural heritage.

Absolutely, I agree. I was trying not to go there in this thread, though.

Quite frankly, when people complain about becoming minorities in their own countries, I think they should place less blame on those attempting to immigrate (their desire is only natural) and more of the blame on the corrupt politicians who are dismantling the barriers in the first place.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Of course one should fear Islam, because militant Islam (not all Islam is militant, just as not all Catholics are militant terrorists like Guy Fawkes or the people who bomb abortion clinics) is a danger in any society, even islamic ones!

Militant Islam is the child of politics gone to heck, in other words the deep frustration of youth without opportunity who have been preached that other people are the enemies of Islam and therefore must die and if they die defending Islam they will go to heaven.

On the other hand, the Western World had something far worse, far bloodier, called the Catholic Church. I will not repeat to you what educated people already know: centuries of inquisitions and crusades. BUT, civil society stepped in and created human rights, so even this bloody and very powerful institution got its teeth pulled out.

So even when the clout of the RCC was immense, influencing the majority of society in more than half of Western European countries, it could be disarmed.

Islam doesn’t have such clout. So if civil society and its secular rule of law could stop the church of more than 90% of the population, it can handle Islam single handed.

We did it once we can do it again.

So I see no need for paranoia. All we need to do is teach our children to think clearly, to reason things through instead of taking things “by faith”, hatred or paranoia.

Also, look at it this way: Muslims are reasonable, moral people like anyone else --they wouldn’t want their new countries of adoption to become the hell-holes they ran away from.

If you wish to post uneducated rants about the role the Church played in European history please start a new thread so this one does not get derailed.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Absolutely, I agree. I was trying not to go there in this thread, though.

Quite frankly, when people complain about becoming minorities in their own countries, I think they should place less blame on those attempting to immigrate (their desire is only natural) and more of the blame on the corrupt politicians who are dismantling the barriers in the first place.

Absolutely. It’s ironic that politicians complain about “racism” and resentment of minorities within countries when their insistence on mass immigration is what is bringing upon this resentment and anger in the first place.

Nobody would care about a few Muslims in Europe if there were a high native birthrate and low rate of immigration. But the opposite is true, causing huge questions on the future of Europe.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Hhmmm our presidents name is Barack Hussein Obama or is it Barry Obama?

We are living in strange times. Things seem to be upside down.

Muslims are divided among themselves just depends on what facet of the muslim world takes hold if any at all.

We are so worried about offending any one trying to be so politically correct we end up being our own worst enemy.

Threats to Christianity have already taken place. We have taken God out of the public schools and courtrooms.

Muslims have all rights to get upset about mohamed jokes in the public arena however when it comes to art work like the Virgin Mary being covered in feces we idly stand by
and accept any insults that come our way.

Its insanity.

Actually his name is “Barack Hussein Obama II”. His paternal grandfather converted to Islam taking the name Hussein which is where Obama gets the name Hussein.

How much do we really need the state to put God in courthouses and in public schools?

I don’t really fear Islam per se, though I am troubled to see the demographic changes that have taken place in the west over the past century. I support European nationalism.

What we need to remember is that Islam, much like Christianity is a religion that has spread across a vast diversity of cultures and ethnicities. Pakistanis are very different than Iranians and Moroccans are very different than Somalis, though they almost all follow some form of Islam. Just as the Irish are different than Austrians, and the Portuguese are very different than the Polish, even though they almost all follow Catholicism. I don’t know if the Islamic population of Europe is primarily from countries where the native mentality is to adopt a more “militant” stance, but here in the U.S. I have never personally observed any of the “Behead those who insult Islam” types.

The U.S. immigration debate is a bit more complicated, due to the history of the nation’s founding, however I am very much against Islamic immigration in Europe, as well as Chinese, South American, Jewish, African, etc. immigration. This is because I respect the right of the native European peoples to dominate their own lands and preserve their genes and cultures.

I *also *support the right of Muslims in their respective countries to live life in peace, so that they can preserve their own ways of life, unmolested by western influence and military occupation. I wonder how many westeners consider that point of view, as we go about spreading “democracy” to those who didn’t ask for it.

In the US AFAIK many Muslims were ones with money who could leave, Iranian doctors and engineers for example.

 

[Cathrien]

I don’t think so that it’s really an issue as a lot of people accepting Islam as their religion and faith. As everyone has his will to do anything and do whatever he thinks better for him. And specially religion is matter of mental and spiritual satisfaction, where we can’t bother anyone.

 

[lerapt78]

In the US AFAIK many Muslims were ones with money who could leave, Iranian doctors and engineers for example.

This has been my experience. The majority of Muslims in the US (that I have personally met or observed) have been from Iran, Palestine, Egypt and Jordan. They are quite civilized, and are law-abiding citizens; in contrast to those I see in photos holding picket signs. Though others may have made different observations than I, I can’t honestly say I have witnessed any anti-Christianity from the Muslim population. In fact, if we were to make a list of the most outspoken anti-Christians here, I bet the Muslims among them would be in the minority. Again, this doesn’t mean that I am for accepting an influx of immigrants - just that I don’t really have anything to personally “fear” from the majority of individuals who practice Islam in the States.

I don’t know if Europeans are experiencing a different sub-set of Muslims, so they may have more of a problem and more of a reason to complain. I know France has a large Algerian population - perhaps they behave differently? I just wonder if it is quite common to see militant and ferocious Muslims on a regular basis, or whether there is a lot of anti-Arab hype built up for propaganda puposes.

 

[PJM]

=indifferently;10091861]what are your views on the demographic shifts in western countries and the rise of islam? Do you think this is a threat to christianity? Do you think that muslim immigration needs to be stopped? What is to be done?

very scary!

 

[fkjuliano]

Whether one should be concerned about the rapidly growing Muslim populations in every single Western country cannot be based primarily on personal observation. Saying, “I know several Muslims and they’re all normal, decent people” is at best foolish and at worse craven. First of all, you cannot know what those four Muslims really think about you and the civilization to which you belong, if they contributed money to “charitable” Muslim organization that are really fronts for terrorism, etc. Perhaps your Muslim acquaintances hold a personal belief that all humans really are equal and that other faiths are worthy of respect, but if they do believe that they are not orthodox Muslims. Second, an ordinary American or European is only likely to interact with Muslims who are seemingly-normal people, from a doctor to the guy at the Seven-Eleven. If you’re not an FBI agent investigating suspected terrorists, a soldier in Afghanistan, or cop in the suburbs of Paris, it’s unlikely that you’ll see the ugliness behind a curtain. For an example of what I’m talking about, read this article about Sibel Edmonds, a genuinely moderate Muslim woman originally from Iran married to an American. For those not curious enough to read it, suffice to say that Muslims working for the FBI as translators had a peculiar reaction to the 9/11 attacks.

Another reason to worry is that Muslim populations are not static; they are rapidly growing, exploding in fact. Whatever problems Muslims are causing today are only likely to be compounded in the future. While worrying about the one-percent Muslim population in a country like Ireland may seem xenophobic and uncharitable, such a figure can change rapidly. France, for instance, had practically zero Muslims at the end of World War II, but look at the situation there now. Muslims are up to 10% of the total population and much more than in significant enclaves. The percentage of Muslim students in the schools of greater Paris is at least 30 percent, and that speaks to what the next generation of “Frenchmen” will look like. France with a 30 percent Muslim population is barely France; it’s more like an enlarged Lebanon. France with 50 percent or more Muslims is not France at all. The bottom line is that a one-percent Muslim population in Ireland today probably means a 20 percent or greater Muslim population in Ireland 30 years from now.

The second major reason to be concerned about Islam should be obvious to anyone familiar with history. Islam has, from its inception, sought to conquer, subdue, and ultimately destroy Christianity, which it views as a corrupted and “polygamist” version of the one true faith. Will Paris, London, Berlin, Amsterdam, and Rome be the Alexandria, Antioch, Carthage, Jerusalem, and Constantinople of the future? I pray that they will not.

 

[Indifferently]

There are many ways to enter Islam, but no ways to leave.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Plenty of people leave Islam, especially in these more secular, modern times. I understand the concern very well, but at least for those living in the West, leaving Islam is possible without great reason to fear, but I would not want someone to be overly public about it.

There are many ways to enter Islam, but no ways to leave.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Quite so. And whatever the Muslim population of Ireland, most of those will have grown up in Ireland and will be Irish citizens. They will not want to create a state in which they themselves would feel their rights are infringed on. Yes, there will probably be some who are fanatical to an extent, but the majority won’t, just as the majority of any Western Muslim population is not fanatical.

By the way, based on the assumption of 1,250,000 Muslims in Ireland in 2042, each current Muslim couple would have to have 6 children, and their progeny would have to have 6 children to reach that population, and that assumes two generations and no deaths of anyone living now…

It stretcheth credulity.