Do you fear the rise of Islam in the West?

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I agree. I hear a lot about Mexicans “taking over” the southwest of the US, yet all the 3rd-generation Mexican-Americans I know come from two-children families, don’t speak Spanish (or speak a treacherous broken Spanish), and use contraception at a frequency about equivalent to that of their White American counterparts. Very few of them would even consider themselves culturally Catholic.
 
It is sad that we expect the same Western culture that has diluted Christianity to dilute Islam. I know will happen, but it remains a sad commentary on the state of religion in general.

I said this before, but I feel I need to say it again.
I agree. I hear a lot about Mexicans “taking over” the southwest of the US, yet all the 3rd-generation Mexican-Americans I know come from two-children families, don’t speak Spanish (or speak a treacherous broken Spanish), and use contraception at a frequency about equivalent to that of their White American counterparts. Very few of them would even consider themselves culturally Catholic.
 
You are discarding the possibility of further and massive Muslim immigration into Ireland, which will reinforce their numbers. I don’t see why you would discard that possibility. Since you yourself believe Muslims are somehow transformed by holding an Irish passport, why not let in a couple million more and crank out the harp-embossed booklets?

I’m sure you’ll have no shortage of takers, either. Even with its current economic difficulties, Ireland must still look like a green paradise to a Syrian, a Pakistani, an Egyptian, a Tunisian, etc. The new Islamist governments and subsequent application of Sharia at every level of society will only make Muslim countries even poorer and more oppressive, thus encouraging emigration.

The ruling class in France, the European country I’m most familiar with, thought, “Surely, once the children of Muslim immigrants learn French, and attend French schools, and live on streets named for great Frenchmen, and breathe the sweet French air, they will be thoroughly French. Religion is a thing of the past, in any case.”

Clearly, it didn’t work out that way there. I doubt it will in Ireland. Even If it did, however, for me the bottom line is this: Islam is Satan’s handiwork. It explicitly and vehemently denies Christ’s divinity. It seeks to banish all beauty from the world: art, music, romantic love. It takes a man who, according to Islamic scripture itself, was a bandit, a rapist, a pedophile, and a mass murderer, and holds him out as the Seal of the Prophets and as the Perfect Man, whom all should emulate. Having even one follower of such a religion as a fellow citizen is to me a compromise with evil, let alone 45,000 in a small country. Rail and call me names if you will, but I believe time will prove me right.
 
That does look like the trend right now. The worst thing is that America is on the same path to doom regarding both contraception and Muslim immigration, only 20 or so years behind.

Perhaps there will be a miracle.
Perhaps.

“Illegal immigration” seems to be minimizing the impact of Muslim population growth in the US…an economic and spiritual levy against the rising floodwaters.
 
You are discarding the possibility of further and massive Muslim immigration into Ireland, which will reinforce their numbers. I don’t see why you would discard that possibility. Since you yourself believe Muslims are somehow transformed by holding an Irish passport, why not let in a couple million more and crank out the harp-embossed booklets?
Not much else to say but history completely disagrees with you with regard to just about every minority immigrant group. Sure, it doesn’t happen within a single generation, but the majority of people eventually assimilate to the norms and mores of the culture around them… that is unless bigots place them in a virtual ghetto.
I’m sure you’ll have no shortage of takers, either. Even with its current economic difficulties, Ireland must still look like a green paradise to a Syrian, a Pakistani, an Egyptian, a Tunisian, etc. The new Islamist governments and subsequent application of Sharia at every level of society will only make Muslim countries even poorer and more oppressive, thus encouraging emigration.
Wait, so the imposition of Sharia law will drive more Muslims away from Muslim lands which have imposed such just for them to fight for the imposition of Sharia in their new homes? That makes no sense.
The ruling class in France, the European country I’m most familiar with, thought, “Surely, once the children of Muslim immigrants learn French, and attend French schools, and live on streets named for great Frenchmen, and breathe the sweet French air, they will be thoroughly French. Religion is a thing of the past, in any case.”
Do you have any concrete data that this is in fact the case? Polls or surveys, perhaps?
Clearly, it didn’t work out that way there. I doubt it will in Ireland. Even If it did, however, for me the bottom line is this: Islam is Satan’s handiwork. It explicitly and vehemently denies Christ’s divinity. It seeks to banish all beauty from the world: art, music, romantic love. It takes a man who, according to Islamic scripture itself, was a bandit, a rapist, a pedophile, and a mass murderer, and holds him out as the Seal of the Prophets and as the Perfect Man, whom all should emulate. Having even one follower of such a religion as a fellow citizen is to me a compromise with evil, let alone 45,000 in a small country. Rail and call me names if you will, but I believe time will prove me right.
Sort of like what happens when you let all them Popish Romans flood a country, eh? How could you ever trust a practitioner of a faith that started the crusades, the inquisition, or even more recently had a child sex abuse scandal!? You not being a Muslim yourself are in no proper position to tell any one of us what “real” Islam is or what a person must think and believe to be an “orthodox” Muslim, any more than an atheist with an axe to grind can read the Bible and dictate to us that we’re not being true Christians because we don’t stone our unruly children, or don’t allow for slavery.
 
i would just like to point out that there are a lot of Somalians in Ireland at the moment…

does any body know of the culture of the Somalians at all?

i hear there are a few in London aswell…

could people please tell me what sort of life styles they bring with them from their culture,please.

back to the O P…

am i afraid of islam ?

not at all.but people who pander,convert,them maybe become a dhimmie should be.

but then again that would not be good news,God loves every body.that should be the sound for people to talk about life…

well,he does love every body,that news should be spread all over the world in all four corners…

but hold on,can people not mention about what will happen if you hold hands with the devil?no they say… we want good news…not this fear mongering…

i got this from my priest about talking good news to every one.not doom and gloom end of times stuff.

so i asked him,does he think that the three children from Fatima are fear mongers?is our blessed Mary the mother of God a fear mongerer?

he said plainly to me,that he doesnt believe in the/any apparitions at all.

im thinking to my self… surely,this man is telling me about not believing in apparitions,and in the same breath he is validating mohammeds vision of an angel, who is violent to him all because he could not read called Gabriel…and his God who calls on killing jews and kafirs if they dont convert or pay jizya taxes?

it is mind blowing to say the least…

is this what it has come to?
 
i do wish you would stop putting words in peoples mouths.im not disrespecting anybody here, especially the clergy.never in a million years would i dream of doing this.

i was pointing out what the priest had to say thats all.

many priests have differing views,it is not in the teachings of the church is it that you have to believe not believe is it in apparitions?

it just took me aback to hear him say this ,thats all.

and btw.

(name removed by moderator)

those ARE the words he said word for word… read them again(the words i said he spoke)

thinking about it a little more now you have provoked a thought pattern,he maybe right.only God knows when the end time will come. Jesus didnt even know it…only the father knows…
 
Not much else to say but history completely disagrees with you with regard to just about every minority immigrant group. Sure, it doesn’t happen within a single generation, but the majority of people eventually assimilate to the norms and mores of the culture around them… that is unless bigots place them in a virtual ghetto.
There is every indication that Muslims in Western countries are an exception to your imaginary “rule” of universal assimilation, as were the Moors in Spain, Portugal, and Sicily before them, along with Jews in the Middle East, Europe and Ethiopia; Gypsies everywhere; Koreans in Japan; Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians in the Ottoman Empire; Parsis and many other groups in India; Turks in the Balkans; Tartars in Russia; etc. Please note that I am not criticizing groups that do not wish to assimilate. Assimilation has a neutral value; its desirability depends on who is being assimilated by whom.

French-born Muslims may speak better French than their immigrant parents (though they can seldom read and write it very well), but they have a much higher rate of unemployment, a much higher rate of criminality, and they are, if not more religious, then more militant about the religion they do not fully practice. A great many of them are the kind of “Frenchman” who would boo the Marseillaise, and if they would not actually shoot murder Jewish schoolchildren, they approved of it when one of their number recently did just that. I am sorry if you choose to attribute all this entirely to French bigotry, but given what I know of Muslim behavior in Muslim lands, I do not.
Wait, so the imposition of Sharia law will drive more Muslims away from Muslim lands which have imposed such just for them to fight for the imposition of Sharia in their new homes? That makes no sense.
This may appear to be a paradox if one is capable only of the most superficial analysis. I thought my post offered an implicit explanation, but I now see an explicit one is required. So here goes:

Sharia causes poverty. (For examples, see every “Arab Spring” country, along with Iran, Pakistan, Mali, etc.) Once a country—let’s call it Islamistan—is thoroughly impoverished by Sharia (which inevitably happens, unless it enjoys great unearned wealth, e.g., Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc.) then denizens of Islamistan naturally wish to emigrate. However, being faithful Muslims, the Islamistanis—if they think about the topic at all—refuse to attribute any blame for their country’s impecunious state to Sharia. Instead, they blame either an imperfect implementation of Sharia, or conspiracies authored by “Zionists” and other malevolent outsiders. (For a fuller illustration of this phenomenon, see V.S. Naipaul’s Among the Believers: an Islamic Journey, more relevant than ever after 30 years.) Therefore, since Sharia is entirely good—and not only good, but divine—of course, the Islamistanis will seek to implement it to the fullest extent possible once they set foot at their new homes in Infidelland, which gave them residency visas because it needs someone—anyone—to pay into its bloated social benefits system, and because, well, being “multicultural” is the thing to do now. I mean, everybody is doing it.
Do you have any concrete data that this is in fact the case? Polls or surveys, perhaps?
This is a strange request. Firstly, whether the French élite once expected that the legions of Muslims arriving in their country would quickly and easily assimilate is not the kind of thing typically measured by “polls or surveys”. If I were writing a book on the topic, I might research op-eds, speeches delivered by wealthy industrialists, etc. That is hardly necessary, however, because it stands to reason that they did believe precisely that. You yourself started your post by citing a purported universal rule of immigrant assimilation and you asserted that “history completely disagrees” with me because I do not believe in such a rule. Though it is certainly true that I do not, many others have taken this bit of myth to heart, including, it is safe to assume the rich and powerful of France at one point. Had they known back in the and 1950s and 60s that some 40 years later their country would be riddled with 800 squalid zones sensibles where even the police sets foot only when in numbers, that most denizens of these places would be chronically unemployed and living on the public dole, that said denizens would hate everything that is French and dream of conquest by jihad, it is unlikely most of them would think that the wholesale of importation of Muslims as a labor force was a good idea.
 
Sort of like what happens when you let all them Popish Romans flood a country, eh? How could you ever trust a practitioner of a faith that started the crusades, the inquisition, or even more recently had a child sex abuse scandal!?
This next section consists of several fallacies and falsehoods strung together. I shall expose them one by one. First, there is a false analogy: if an unspecified group of people, though presumably Protestants in the United States and other Anglophone countries, predicted adverse consequences resulting from Catholic immigration and those adverse consequences have not come to pass, then those who predict adverse consequences resulting from Muslim immigration are wrong as well. This, of course, assumes that believing in Catholicism is equivalent to believing in Islam, and if anything in the world is false it is the proposition that Catholicism and Islam are in any way, shape, or form comparable. If you wish to argue that point, first be honest enough to change your stated religion to something like “undefined”, “dubious”, “wishy-washy”, “my own thing”. The second false assumption is that modern-day Europe is equally capable of assimilating immigrant populations from whatever source as the United States, Canada, and Australia were a century ago, which is equally false for a variety of cultural, demographic, historic, geographic, social, technological, and not least, religious reasons. Indeed, it is far too late to consider this a matter of speculation; it is one of observation. First and second-generation American-born Catholics were infinitely better integrated than their Muslim counterparts in present-day Europe. Besides, the Church founded hospitals, universities, etc. that benefited not only the Catholic community but the larger population as well. There is not a shadow of something similar occurring in Europe. The sole Muslim institutions there are mosques, many funded by Saudi Arabia and dedicated to the dissemination of Wahhabism, the most noxious form of a noxious belief system.
As to the reasons why someone might hesitate to trust a Catholic:

The Holy Crusades were a necessary and heroic response to centuries of Muslim aggression, including the invasion and forced Islamicization of the entire Middle East, which had been the heart of Christendom, and to unrelenting attempts to conquer what remained, namely Europe. There were isolated instances of innocent blood being shed, foremost among which was that of the Jewish community in Jerusalem during the First Crusade. However, the regrettable events associated with the Crusades that did occur are singled out and exaggerated by Muslim propagandists and their politically correct allies, while those committed by Muslims are ignored. Have you personally heard of the genocidal conquest of Sindh starting in 664? Or of Aurangzeb’s equally genocidal massacres throughout India a thousand years later? How about the Otranto Massacre in 1480, when 800 faithful Catholic men chose death at the hands of the Turkish invaders to conversion to Islam? If you go to the cathedral at the Italian town of the same name you can still see their bones. How about the Turkish Abductions from Iceland (Yes, Iceland!) in 1627 when whole villages were depopulated, their inhabitants enslaved or murdered? Incidentally, the only thing that was unusual about this was the location. Historians estimate that more Europeans were abducted and enslaved by the Turks and their North African allies than West Africans by all nationalities combined (which included North African Moors). As happened in Iceland, the usual Muslim practice was not to leave children, the elderly, and the infirm behind but to cut them down while still ashore or take them to sea and then throw them overboard, as these acts were deemed praiseworthy by Islamic authorities of the time. (Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World [Paperback], by Roger Crowley, p. 70) How about the genocide of Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians in 1915? Turks and their Kurdish collaborators murdered 2.5 million of the Ottoman Empire’s Christian subjects. Ever heard of that? I think the take-no-prisoners stance of the Crusaders kind of pales in comparison.

The Inquisition? The great number of purported victims was Protestant propaganda, or more recently, Muslim propaganda. Unfortunately, it did make some innocent victims. Every human judicial system does, including, to be sure, the American criminal justice system. Note, however, that it was instigated largely by the presence of crypto-Muslims in Spain. In my opinion, which I have expressed clearly, ridding one’s country of every last vestige of Islam is a necessary and worthy endeavor, so to that extent the Inquisition was justified. Note also that the Inquisition had jurisdiction only over persons who claimed to be Catholic. Today in Muslim countries, Sharia courts exercise jurisdiction over all people, regardless of religion, and routinely sentence Christians to death for such “crimes” as “blasphemy” against the “Prophet” Muhammad. In Egypt, seven people have just been tried in absentia and sentenced to death for helping to produce the film “The Innocence of Muslims”, including Pastor Terry Jones who is neither a Muslim nor has ever set foot in Egypt.
 
You not being a Muslim yourself are in no proper position to tell any one of us what “real” Islam is or what a person must think and believe to be an “orthodox” Muslim, any more than an atheist with an axe to grind can read the Bible and dictate to us that we’re not being true Christians because we don’t stone our unruly children, or don’t allow for slavery.
Your assertion that only a Muslim is in the “proper position” to make accurate statements concerning Islam is laughable and redolent of political correctness. If I cannot make accurate statements about Islam, then presumably neither I nor you could make accurate statements about any faith other than our own. We could not say, “Buddhists believe in reincarnation” or “Jews do not believe that pork is kosher” or “Ganesha is one of many Hindu gods” or “Baptists do not baptize infants”, for neither one of us is a Buddhist, a Jew, a Hindu, or a Baptist. Now if you do not consider yourself capable of making these demonstrably true statements about other religions, I will not argue the point. I, however, am fully qualified to do so by virtue of being A) literate and B) capable of rational thought. Should anyone—whether Buddhist, friend to Buddhists, or foe to Buddhists—deny that reincarnation is a central tenet of Buddhism, I certainly have the right and the capability to argue otherwise. Likewise, I am fully entitled and capable of affirming that violent jihad is a central tenet of Islam, that Islam bans music, that Islam bans most art forms, that Islam allows polygamy, that Muslims hold Muhammad to be the Perfect Man whose behavior should be emulated by all, and that Islam denies Christ’s divinity. Since I am the one proffering these statements, I accept that the burden of proof is mine. I will, therefore, demonstrate the truth of any of these statements should I be asked to do so, and I will do so rather easily, unlike your hypothetical atheist with his Old Testament strictures.
 
Now your response is to censor others by invoking some arbitrary rule about “disrespect” to clergy? Of course, that the cleric in question is one who is fashionably skeptical about orthodox Catholicism but fashionably open-minded about the so-called Religion of Peace is entirely coincidental.
 
back to the O P…

this video will give you a very good education/insight on the spread of islam during the byzantine era.then just look at the patterns of today.patterns in why people run away from questions and truth…

youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
 
Actually his name is “Barack Hussein Obama II”. His paternal grandfather converted to Islam taking the name Hussein which is where Obama gets the name Hussein.

How much do we really need the state to put God in courthouses and in public schools?

In the US AFAIK many Muslims were ones with money who could leave, Iranian doctors and engineers for example.
How much?? Is there such a thing of Too much God any where? I dont think so.

This is Gods world.

As for me and mine we shall worship the Lord of all creation Every day in every way! 👍
 
What are your views on the demographic shifts in Western countries and the rise of Islam? Do you think this is a threat to Christianity? Do you think that Muslim immigration needs to be stopped? What is to be done?
Whether immigration is stopped from other lands or not, Islam is still on the rise with more & more converts everyday.

As a woman I’d rather live under Sharia Law than under thr rule of secular Atheism.
 
Whether immigration is stopped from other lands or not, Islam is still on the rise with more & more converts everyday.

As a woman I’d rather live under Sharia Law than under thr rule of secular Atheism.
Your attitude is understandable, but it’s likely based on a misunderstanding of what passes for morality under Islam, a misunderstanding I shared until a few years ago. The topic is really book-length, but I would like to cite a couple of examples. Muslim men are allowed to marry up to four wives. While shocking to a Christian, that’s a well-known fact. What’s less well-known is that, in addition to the four wives, Muslims are allowed to own any number of “concubines”, which is to say, female sex slaves. Finally, the minimum age for the wives or concubines is interpreted as either nine (the age of Aisha, Muhammad’s favorite wife when he consummated their marriage) or “strong enough to bear the weight of man”, which could be even younger.

I have a very low opinion of secularism, but I respectfully submit to you that secular mores are superior to Islamic ones.
 
Christianity lost its stranglehold on society a long time ago.
Islam is going strong and pushing out sharia law wherever they spread.
The only thing to do is hamstring the right of all religion to step beyond the church.
If they have special protection, they will spread.
 
As a woman I’d rather live under Sharia Law than under thr rule of secular Atheism. [/QUOTE said:
Please elaborate…
Sharia Law is a horrible, sexist, misogynistic system where women are treated like cattle.

I am quite curious about the ‘rule’ of secular atheism.
Please tell me… What exactly does that involve?
 
Christianity lost its stranglehold on society a long time ago.
Islam is going strong and pushing out sharia law wherever they spread.
The only thing to do is hamstring the right of all religion to step beyond the church.
If they have special protection, they will spread.
i don’t think you can hamstring islam, it is a political/religious system, so not confined to a ‘church’.
a better idea might be to strengthen christianity and convert islamic emigrants. christianity isn’t oppressive as atheists tend to prefer living in christian countries than islamic states, i think.
 
In the west we have the idea that you have to respect someone else’s religion.
The problem with that is that it will allow the political side of islam to move in, because that is their beliefs and so they should be allowed to do their thing.
None of the christian sects have the same societal control so it will be a losing battle.

Law must be law and religion must be religion.

Conversion is a little optimistic as once they have their religious law in place, not many members would even dare considering stepping away from the control, as it is punishable.
 
In Islam there is no separation of politic and religion. Islam is a way of life thus it has its own divine law. No Muslims will deny or object to this law being implemented. One can expect when there is a Muslims majority, ultimately they have to use Islamic law to run the country. If they don’t, it will be a matter of time that they do. The thing about this law is that it can be quite discriminating.
 
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