Do you feel more at ease with priests/religious who wear street clothes?

[Uncle_Norbert]

Uncle Norbert,

What I really don’t understand is why a priest/religious can’t enjoy the beauty of life while wearing their clerical garb/habit. I would never say that these men and women should wear their “vocational” clothing every waking moment, but I believe it should be their main attire. In my diocese it is the older sisters and priests who only wear their vocational clothing on an extremely rare basis.

Ok, let’s go back to my earlier posts…generally speaking, when you see a priest out in public, (properly attired) there is an inherent (if only subconscious) need to converse with the priest with regard to church issues only. “Lovely homily last Sunday, Faddah”…or “How’s the building fund coming along?”

Did you ever stop to think that maybe some of them actually YEARN for a little generic conversation? It’s not a sign of weakness of faith, it’s a part of humanity. (See earlier post about dinner invitations)

My uncle would take me to Cubs games, and he would wear a bright shirt, and we would have a blast. The only “prayer” we engaged in was “Thank you Lord, for the goodies”, prior to wolfing down a hot dog. (Well, MAYBE, there would be prayer if the Cubs were behind)

Now, we DID “take advantage” of his priesthood, and park his car at a nearby convent, rather than pay to park at Wrigley. I still remember one of the nuns one day…“aaaaaaay, Faddah, Randolph, I see yer takin’ yer nephew to da game today…maybe dey’ll win fer a change…”

And, lest you think he was some kind of new-age-hippie priest, he was born in 1905 and died in 1989. You figure it out

I’ll say it again…“Priests are people too”…

 

[agapewolf]

I work for the church. I went to dinner with a priest friend once in clerics. We were interrupted 4 times in 45 minutes. Not for faith questions, not for spiritual needs, but to make some kind of lame joke or something ridiculous.

I don’t blame them for wanting to have dinner out once in awhile and not be on display, and it certainly doesn’t mean that he is ashamed of being a priest, as post #2 and #3 accused.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Ok, let’s go back to my earlier posts…generally speaking, when you see a priest out in public, (properly attired) there is an inherent (if only subconscious) need to converse with the priest with regard to church issues only. “Lovely homily last Sunday, Faddah”…or “How’s the building fund coming along?”

I have never found that to be the case. All of the Catholics I know regularly talk with priests wearing their clericals about a whole host of different topics.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe some of them actually YEARN for a little generic conversation? It’s not a sign of weakness of faith, it’s a part of humanity. (See earlier post about dinner invitations)"

I do not like the fact that you are making generalized assumptions about people who disagree with you. Of course I stopped to think. I am not in the habit of posting without turning on the ole brain. You make it sound like I don’t know any priests, which is simply an incorrect assumption.

I am not advocating, “Priests must always talk religion.” I just don’t understand why they need casual clothes in order for people to talk about baseball with them. If they want to talk baseball, start talking baseball. People will catch on, and hopefully they will learn (if they don’t know already) that priests are real people too. It works for my mother’s parish priest. He’s always in his clericals, and everyone knows that Father Bob loves golf, and they all talk with him about golf regularly.

 

[tcraig]

Maybe they don’t always WANT to be “taken seriously”, as in treated like a priest…sometimes they just want to be treated like a PERSON.

This is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

I got married at age 19. I had my first child 14 months later.

I’m now 43. For nearly 25 years I’ve been a wife and mother, my VOCATION. If you didn’t notice my vocation because of my wedding ring, you certainly wouldn’t miss it from the children I’ve had with me throughout the years.

Have I never “wanted” to be anything other than a wife and mother … you know, the mysterious “PERSON” you speak of?

You betcha!!

If a priest thinks he has it rough, try being a mother.

Yes, sometimes it would be nice to “forget” who we are, try to forget our God-given vocation, and just “vegetate” in another personality/persona. Certainly I would like people to know that I speak two other languages nearly fluently, and graduated with a 3.989 GPA with a BS in Nursing.

There have been times when a toddler has decided to have a meltdown in the middle of Wal-Mart that I wanted to cry “Did you know I’ve read all of Jane Austen’s novels?”

I’ve homeschooled children when the local schools were ****, all the while wondering how I’d manage to teach diagramming *and *keep the bathrooms clean and laundry caught up, without resorting to frozen pizza dinners five nights a week.

But that darned VOCATION just keeps getting in the way. Whether I want it to be obvious or not, my marriage and my children make it clear what my vocation is.

I think the LEAST a priest/religious can do is wear clericals when in public. I don’t care what they wear in their own home … but if my wedding ring and children readily announce MY vocation every time I step outside, then they can darn sure announce theirs.

 

[slyboots]

To TCraig:
:clapping: :dancing: Amen Sister!!!:extrahappy: :dancing: :hug3:

 

[CarrieH]

Would you feel more comfortable having a physical done by a doctor who instead of wearing a lab coat, wore street clothes?



So why would I prefer to confess my sins to a guy in blue jeans?

Actually, my physician is a very bright, competent, and thorough young woman who does wear street clothes when she sees you in the office. She only puts on the lab coat for rounding in the hospital. It makes no difference to me whether she wears a lab coat or not; I wouldn’t even care if she showed up in jeans or sweats, because she is a good doctor. But maybe that’s because I have worked in healthcare for 35+ years, so I know that the uniform is only the wrapper, and I have seen too many incompetent practitioners “dressed for success” to be impressed by their white coats or lack thereof. I feel the same way about clergy. Just as I would expect my doctor to come to Grand Rounds in her white coat, I would expect my priest to wear the appropriate garb for Mass, but outside of the hospital or the church, it doesn’t matter a rat’s patootie to me what they wear.

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

Well, I can only speak from personal experience, and it’s clear that some here just can’t understand.

You look at a priest, and you see “a priest”, along with all the demands and expectations that come with his being a priest, fair or unfair.

I look at a priest and I smile. I smile, becuase I can look back on all the good times had and wonderful memories made, with two terrific men, MY Uncle Norbert and MY Cousin Tom.

They were MEN…REAL PEOPLE…who happened to be priests. People who’s company I enjoyed immensely. And it had nothing to do with the priesthood.

They’re a priest to you, but they’re FAMILY to me.

PS, judging by some of the posts here, some of you would probably faint dead on the floor if I could figure out how to scan and post the photograph my cousin sent from the Holy Land during Christmas…of him (properly attired, of course) riding a donkey in Jerusalem, with both arms and legs flailing about.

Oh, the scandal!

 

[edward_george]

I’m sorry you feel this way, Uncle Norbert. I have an uncle who is a priest, and I can talk to him just as plain as day–I call him about once a week (he lives very far away but we try to keep in touch) and we talk about whatever’s on our minds. Sorry that it has to be about the Church, maybe for a young theology student who’s aspiring to the priesthood himself that’d be good conversation fodder for him and his uncle who happens to be a priest.

A “strawman” is a logical fallacy wherein you set up a false opposition, claim it is your real opposition, and then proceed to argue against it. Here, you are asserting that everyone treats priests in the way you describe, furthermore that priests feel suffocated and want an escape from their vocations, and then proceed to attack these assertions. I do not know of anyone who hounds his priest like this, nor do I know of any priests who see their vocations as burdens. Yes, you are quite right that there is nothing wrong with time off for priests as with anything else. But you seem to be advocating an extremely casual view of the priesthood and how priests view themselves. I know a number of priests, again, very closely and “in depth” as you say, and a lot of them would be almost offended at some of the things you say here.

I have a great deal of respect for all of the clergy and I am thankful for them. That includes those in your family who answered Christ’s call. But even they, I’m sure, realized that that call was a lifelong commitment–one not to be taken lightly. If the Church asks her priests to dress like priests, I should see no reason why they wouldn’t. In fact, priests take a vow of obedience to the Church, and this includes following Canon Law. If appearing as a priest in public is an inconvenience to a priest, then perhaps he needs to reconsider his motivations for assuming the sacred ministry–of course, he’s a priest and a priest for life, but perhaps he needs to reorient his interior dispositions if he is feeling inconvenienced by the nature of his vocation, including the exterior trappings.

-ACEGC

 

[tcraig]

You look at a priest, and you see “a priest”, along with all the demands and expectations that come with his being a priest, fair or unfair.

I’m pretty sure that plenty of people have looked at me over the years as “just” being a mother … with all the demands and expectations that come with that role, fair or unfair. If my children happen to behave in public, I’m golden; if they act up, it’s obviously my deficiencies in raising them.

I look at a priest and I smile. I smile, becuase I can look back on all the good times had and wonderful memories made, with two terrific men, MY Uncle Norbert and MY Cousin Tom.

I think my family has pretty good memories of me, too, as a mother, a sister, a daughter, an aunt … but I’ve never tried to be anything but what I am … and my primary VOCATION is to marriage and motherhood.

They were MEN…REAL PEOPLE…who happened to be priests. People who’s company I enjoyed immensely. And it had nothing to do with the priesthood.

I’m also a real person, who happens to be a wife and mother. And I don’t get to take off my wedding ring or pretend I don’t have children just because I’d like to be considered in a different light.

And if I chose to play with trains in the basement, I can assure you that I’d have a few “interested parties” or else my husband would be trying to explain why mommy didn’t want anyone downstairs with her.

 

[tcraig]

And I wanted to add, Uncle Norbert, why I disagree with you so much …

I get the feeling from your posts that your feeling is “It’s so hard being a priest … give them a break and let them wear regular clothes!”"

As if no other vocation is difficult or requires great sacrifices from those living it daily.

It would be nice if it were so easy as to do nothing more than don a different pair of clothes …

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

I get the feeling from your posts that your feeling is “It’s so hard being a priest … give them a break and let them wear regular clothes!”

Well, at least you’re starting to get the picture.

But we can philosophise til our fingers fall off.

So, for all of you who insist on holding priests to all your various standards (which aren’t being met, or this thread wouldn’t have been started)…I still want to know what YOUR solution to recruiting and retaining priests is?

Higher standards? More demands? More foreign priests that we can’t understand on Sunday?

Sooner or later, all too many of us, at least in the US, are going to be pastor-less congregations, with lots of appropriate clothing hanging in unused closets…and, no trains in the basement either.

 

[edward_george]

I don’t know what Diocese you’re from, but the vocations crisis is turning around in a lot of places. And if you notice, these are the dioceses that have figured out what produces vocations to the Catholic priesthood–behaving like the Catholic Church, both visibly and interiorly. Dioceses like Lincoln, NE, and St. Louis, MO have packed seminaries. Why? An emphasis on doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis. The dioceses that don’t have these things are the ones clustering parishes and closing others down, all the while ignoring the fact that if we get back to the practice of the Catholic faith, the presbyterate won’t be spread so thinly, and there won’t be any “pastorless parishes.” Furthermore, they’ll be getting good quality priests out of it. I speak from experience here, because my diocese is going through the clustering/closing experience, and hasn’t produced a large ordination class in years. The dioceses to the north and south of it are consistently turning out double the priests that it is, for the reasons that I state here.

You’ll notice that in these dioceses like the ones I speak of, as well as the more orthodox religious orders, all the clergy/religious wear their clericals or habits. They recognize the potential for Christian witness that comes from dressing like a member of the clergy.

-ACEGC

 

[lizaanne]

all joking aside thou, we must wear our “work” clothes 24 hours, we work 24 hours and should always be in clerics or cassock or habit. like in the commerical I posted a link to, he did put back on his clerical shirt after swimming. same as I would take off my cassock before going in the pool, but after I am out and dry, back into my cassock. we are working 24 hours a day all the time.

Being a priest is not a job, it’s a life style.

With all due respect, sir, you are not a Catholic priest. And I believe that is what we are discussing here - the Catholic Priesthood and religious.

I just want to ensure that no member is confused by your user name or your signature, given your comments above.

~Liza

 

[Lepanto]

Twenty years from now, when all our priests are from foreign countries, speaking broken English.

Part of that reason is because priestly identity is almost non-existent in this country, and it’s exacerbated by priests who dress like Joe Sixpack.

Most boys who might otherwise look up to priests as role models wouldn’t know a priest when they saw one.

 

[Lepanto]

So, you’re more interested in appearances than substance?

Why not have both? Are appropriate appearance and substance somehow mutually exclusive?

Doe jeans and T-shirt magically make a priest a better priest?

 

[FrCorey]

With all due respect, sir, you are not a Catholic priest. And I believe that is what we are discussing here - the Catholic Priesthood and religious.

I just want to ensure that no member is confused by your user name or your signature, given your comments above.

~Liza

**welp, thats going to be a real shock to all our clergy all over the world. and our friends in Rome. and Pope Benedict who said we made a fine addition to the One Holy Church. the jesuits will probully laugh when they hear about this too. hmm, probully a good opening joke at the next synod too. p.s. we have the Villate lines and the Costa lines of succession.

God Bless…

**

 

[Lepanto]

I work for the church. I went to dinner with a priest friend once in clerics. We were interrupted 4 times in 45 minutes. Not for faith questions, not for spiritual needs, but to make some kind of lame joke or something ridiculous.

Then your priest friend is a blessed man!

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.
(Matthew 5:11,12)

Remember the words I spoke to you: If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me.
(John 15:20, 21)

All men will hate you because of me. But not a hair of your head will perish. By standing firm you will gain life.
(Luke 21:17-19)

In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
(2 Tim 3:12)

 

[Lepanto]

Sooner or later, all too many of us, at least in the US, are going to be pastor-less congregations, with lots of appropriate clothing hanging in unused closets(

You seem to be repeatedly making the connection that clerical clothing drives men away from the priesthood. I don’t understand this correlation. Please explain it.

Better yet, do you have any hard data to back up this wild assertion?

 

[anamchara]

With all due respect, sir, you are not a Catholic priest. And I believe that is what we are discussing here - the Catholic Priesthood and religious.

I just want to ensure that no member is confused by your user name or your signature, given your comments above.

~Liza

I’m not confused. It wouldn’t matter to me anyway. What he says is still valid. Why is it important to point this out?

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

So, now a priest being pestered at lunch is equated to persecution?

What next?