Do you feel offended by people who come to the CC dressed as if they were at a barbeque in their backyard?

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ThereseOfRoses said:
First of all, I don’t find that harsh at all. The ruckus on here is because the OP has taken it upon him/herself to determine that women shouldn’t wear pants (ever) and has been slyly using the thread to get his/her opinion across as a “teaching of the Church”.

I have not only read Colleen’s book, but have recommended it and given it out to friends. There are a few things that she has written there that I disagree with, but those are her personal opinions on a few things, not Church teachings that she has quoted.

My concern on this thread isn’t that I condone immodest clothes, I don’t and have stated before I don’t want to see cleavage, bare shoulders, bare bellies, plumber cracks, kneecaps or armpits on women OR men at Church…and there are several of those things I don’t care to see out in public, either;).

My concern is there are a few on here that INSIST that women are rebelling against God and are pretty much in mortal sin if they wear pants, based on their PERSONAL OPINION , not Church teaching, but they insist that it’s “what God wants” without posting any sources. Those folks refuse to take history into consideration, such as men in biblical times (in the middle east/bible lands) didn’t wear pants…they wore robes and tunics. It was well over a thousand years after Christ walked the earth that men began to wear “breeches” in European culture. I have pointed out several times that men and women of Asian and Indian cultures wore pants prior to be converted to Christianity many centuries ago and continued to do so after their conversion. The response I was given was that it was “interesting I was mentioning PAGAN cultures”…I found that highly offensive. All cultures, outside of the Hebrew tribes, were PAGAN at one time.
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and you continue to ignore the words and warnings of the popes. you see, these are not my opinions.
 
wisdomseeker said:
and you continue to ignore the words and warnings of the popes. you see, these are not my opinions.
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Wear did the Popes mention pants? Could you PLEASE find that for me…apparently the word “pants” fails to show up in these sources???

…and I have stated several times, I find short skirts, bare shoulders, bare bellies, and bare thighs immodest, so I don’t see where I am ignoring words and warnings of the Popes!!!

I am simply ignoring your opinion, you don’t have the authority to speak “ex cathedra” and you still have failed to produce those Church documents that explicitly state women should never wear pants.
 
I’ve found in life the best teacher is a good example. And a Good habit is just as contagious as a bad.

I attend Mass dressed in a Suit at times. Yet I must have regards for those who live in poverty and make an effort just to attend. So there is ceratinly two sides to the coin.

Wearing inappropriate attire which is offensive is entirely a different situation. I can’t think of a time I feel this has happened.

I see the bigger picture being Souls which can be converted with a kind word or two. There are those who have a kinda belief in God who are struggling with habits, vices and demons. I see this as the much more obtainable goal. You’d be surprized how many are here whom can be saved with a true friendship and a few kind truthfull words. I live in thie area and remain more focused on this.

Different callings I suppose. I hear what you saying, but today 2010 its much more important to get the Souls back to Mass and into the fold.
 
I am done with this thread. The OP has shown us, page after page, that he/she cannot find a Church teaching that women shouldn’t wear pants. Posting things about immodesty doesn’t prove anything about wearing “modest pants”.

I wish the moderator would just close this thread do to the racist tone taken about Catholics of other cultures and the general lack of charity towards anyone that doesn’t take the OP’s opinions as official Church teaching!!
 
wisdomseeker said:
and you continue to ignore the words and warnings of the popes. you see, these are not my opinions.
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And you continue to ignore that pants are clearly a pagan article of clothing that have no place on a Catholic man.
 
ThereseOfRoses said:
I am done with this thread. The OP has shown us, page after page, that he/she cannot find a Church teaching that women shouldn’t wear pants. Posting things about immodesty doesn’t prove anything about wearing “modest pants”.

I wish the moderator would just close this thread do to the racist tone taken about Catholics of other cultures and the general lack of charity towards anyone that doesn’t take the OP’s opinions as official Church teaching!!
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what kind of cloth do you the holy fathers are talking about?
 
PatrickSebast said:
And you continue to ignore that pants are clearly a pagan article of clothing that have no place on a Catholic man.
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did i say that man is not to wear pants. if i did, forgive me. as far as i remember i stated very clear that man wears pants and women wear dresses or skirt. do you have a problem with that?
 
StTommyMore said:
It must be remembered that as Catholics we are not called to fallow the whims of others blindly. We must rely on a properly formed conscience. The manner of dress is not dogmatic. We must trust in our conscience to guide us in such things.
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should we say this to pelosi and biden? to follow their conscience?
 
ThereseOfRoses said:
First of all, I don’t find that harsh at all. The ruckus on here is because the OP has taken it upon him/herself to determine that women shouldn’t wear pants (ever) and has been slyly using the thread to get his/her opinion across as a “teaching of the Church”.

I have not only read Colleen’s book, but have recommended it and given it out to friends. There are a few things that she has written there that I disagree with, but those are her personal opinions on a few things, not Church teachings that she has quoted.

My concern on this thread isn’t that I condone immodest clothes, I don’t and have stated before I don’t want to see cleavage, bare shoulders, bare bellies, plumber cracks, kneecaps or armpits on women OR men at Church…and there are several of those things I don’t care to see out in public, either;).

My concern is there are a few on here that INSIST that women are rebelling against God and are pretty much in mortal sin if they wear pants, based on their PERSONAL OPINION , not Church teaching, but they insist that it’s “what God wants” without posting any sources. Those folks refuse to take history into consideration, such as men in biblical times (in the middle east/bible lands) didn’t wear pants…they wore robes and tunics. It was well over a thousand years after Christ walked the earth that men began to wear “breeches” in European culture. I have pointed out several times that men and women of Asian and Indian cultures wore pants prior to be converted to Christianity many centuries ago and continued to do so after their conversion. The response I was given was that it was “interesting I was mentioning PAGAN cultures”…I found that highly offensive. All cultures, outside of the Hebrew tribes, were PAGAN at one time.

I am waiting for some to mention St Pio’s rule about clothing (ankle-length skirts and no pants)…I think Padre Pio was a very holy man; holy enough to be canonized. But we must remember, he was human, and he was not in the position in which to speak “ex cathedra”. So, once again, it’s simply the opinion of a good and holy person, not an official teaching of the Church. When Pope Benedict XVl tells women (ex cathedra) not to wear pants, I will stop wearing them.
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so, you dont take the words of a holy man in teh Church?
 
wisdomseeker said:
did i say that man is not to wear pants. if i did, forgive me. as far as i remember i stated very clear that man wears pants and women wear dresses or skirt. do you have a problem with that?
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Yes, pants come from pagan cultures. Catholic men shouldn’t wear pagan articles to mass.
 
I totally agree. Just because a woman is in a dress doesn’t make her modest. All clothing should be modest, but I wanted to point out why pants can be immodest. When women dress in pants, if that is what they must or prefer to do, it should be very modest. And they should know what to watch out for when getting dressed so they do not cause anyone to stumble.
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wisdomseeker said:
did i say that man is not to wear pants. if i did, forgive me. as far as i remember i stated very clear that man wears pants and women wear dresses or skirt. do you have a problem with that?
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The problem is you are trying to dogmatize something which is based on culture. Clothing norms change. You are basing your views based on norms of the 19th-20th centuries. Woen in dresses vs. pants is something that cannot be made an article of faith, for multiple reasons. First it is the imposition of western fashion on non-western cultures. Second, fashion changes through the ages. Third, there is no objective superiority of dresses over pants for women. You are trying to present your own opinion as dogma that smacks of subjugation of women.
 
PatrickSebast said:
And you continue to ignore that pants are clearly a pagan article of clothing that have no place on a Catholic man.
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So true. If the men would just go back to kilts, we could all admire their well-socked but still attractive and manly calves and thus have our eyes directed away from their beer bellies. Besides, admiring the various men’s calves would keep us ladies eyes directed modestly down. A complete win-win.
 
wisdomseeker said:
this is more than irrelevant to this discussion. it really is.
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I totally disagree! This remark was a carefully crafted rhetorical device designed to draw the reader’s attention to the real issues at stake and to use humor to deflect the natural anger some might feel at being “caught” in a rhetorical trap.

Any Jesuit involvement in their education, perhaps?
 
LilyM said:
I
Women who are out to attract attention will do so regardless of whether they’re in skirt or pants. Women whose desire is to be modestly dressed will be so, whether they’re in skir or pants.
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I totally agree. Just because a woman is in a dress doesn’t make her modest. All clothing should be modest, but I wanted to point out why pants can be immodest. When women dress in pants, if that is what they must or prefer to do, it should be very modest. And they should know what to watch out for when getting dressed so they do not cause anyone to stumble.
 
StTommyMore said:
The problem is you are trying to dogmatize something which is based on culture. Clothing norms change. You are basing your views based on norms of the 19th-20th centuries. Woen in dresses vs. pants is something that cannot be made an article of faith, for multiple reasons. First it is the imposition of western fashion on non-western cultures. Second, fashion changes through the ages. Third, there is no objective superiority of dresses over pants for women. You are trying to present your own opinion as dogma that smacks of subjugation of women.
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really. why do you think that holy men of the Church is talking about certain clothes that have even penetrated the Church?

do you think they are wrong?
 
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