Do you feel safe going to Mass?

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

If even 1% of them were mentally unstable, and you have 10,000 parishes across the country having 2 guards outside, then that means you have 200 mentally unstable people with guns outside of a sanctuary on a weekly basis.

And I can absolutely guarantee that more than 1% of them would have issues. It takes a certain borderline personality to buy into this kind of hysteria and volunteer to be a “parish guard”. It is somewhat asinine that I am even having this conversation.

So a big ‘no thank you’ to having “heroes” standing watch outside of the sanctuary.

I am yet again heartened & encouraged to know the hierarchical Church relies on bishops to make these decisions and not laity.

Given that such “guards” would likely start implementing other rules–like the men who wouldn’t allow me in a TLM mass in business casual clothing (a fancy sweater and pants) because I’m a gasp WOMAN. The burdan on the faithful could easily become onerous.

 

[TK421]

People with undiagnosed mental disorders, such as PTSD or paranoia, should be seeking professional help with certified counselors, spiritual direction by a Confessor, and emotional support among friends & family. Not having their phobias and hysteria validated in the form of a volunteer guard.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

People with undiagnosed paranoia disorder and PTSD should be seeking professional help, not having their phobias and hysteria validated in the form of a volunteer guard.

I agree in part.

I think it very much depends on where in the US/world you are from.

Like I said, I’ve grown up with minor attacks on priests and nutters in the pew being the “norm”.

I fear a nutter with things to throw/light on fire more than I do a gun attack. Gun attack is just unlikely…but I think that having experienced relatively minor disturbances, and seeing how priests are treated one cannot be too dismissive of those who have seen things.

Do I think we need an armed guard?

Absolutely not.

But encouraging a few strong men to become ushers rather than the frail, old knights might be a good idea.

I’ve seen disturbances. I’ve been at a Mass where a crazy person went off…actually more than one. Only one involved actual “violence”. I’ve seen priests “attacked” outside of Mass (spat on, swore at, etc) so I don’t think it’s right to dismiss the need for safety as a matter of course.

But not armed-guard level safety…just perhaps a few guys willing to tote a nut out should the need arise.

 

[StGerardMajella]

So a big ‘no thank you’ to having “heroes” standing watch outside of the sanctuary.

I am yet again heartened & encouraged to know the hierarchical Church relies on competent bishops to make decisions and not laity. Goodness gracious.

Tell that to the victims’ families in Sutherland Springs, Texas this past weekend. Anyone paying attention knows that these acts of mass gun violence are becoming more commonplace, and Christians are frequently becoming the targets.

You can’t bury your head in the sand. In other parts of the world, armed security details at places of worship is commonplace.

It would not surprise me if at most Masses that there are armed undercover police officers to which the public is completely unaware, especially in the inner city churches and in Masses with a large number of attendees.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

TK421:

So a big ‘no thank you’ to having “heroes” standing watch outside of the sanctuary.

I am yet again heartened & encouraged to know the hierarchical Church relies on competent bishops to make decisions and not laity. Goodness gracious.

Tell that to the victims’ families in Sutherland Springs, Texas this past weekend. Anyone paying attention knows that these acts of mass gun violence are becoming more commonplace, and Christians are frequently becoming the targets.

You can’t bury your head in the sand. In other parts of the world, armed security details at places of worship is commonplace.

It would not surprise me if at most Masses that there are armed undercover police officers to which the public is completely unaware, especially in the inner city churches and in Masses with a large number of attendees.

This is false. Christians are NOT the target.

The gunman escaped from a mental institution. He was known to the military as being mentally unsound. Nothing was ever reported to civil authorities. That’s a HUGE part of the picture.

He attacked because he wanted to get back at a family member who helped his wife escape abuse—HIS abuse.

It had ZERO to do with christianity.

 

[Zaccheus]

In wake of the recent Texas church shooting (and others like it), do you feel safe even going to Mass? Do you think there should be security at every church now? Would you consider bringing a weapon for self defense purposes?

Taking your questions in order:
Yes. I feel safe at Mass.
No. I do not think there should be security at the church doors.
No! We should not bring weapons into the House of God.

A shooting in Texas is not going to terrify me in Canada. Nor do I consider one incident, however horrifying, to be evidence that all churches become dangerous to enter.
Even if I did, arming ourselves would not be the answer.

 

[TK421]

I have worked in several schools. There are designated people with special training that can respond to a crisis. Larger schools can have a security officer on the payroll to diffuse a situation if a fight breaks out.

All of the above are screened very carefully in order to ensure the safety & well-being of the staff and the students. It is well-documented that volunteers themselves can contribute to a problem.

On a wider scale, this is why American gun culture is a terrible idea from the beginning. It is a self-inflicted Arms Race between the criminal population and the general population. Given how many people in our country have undiagnosed disorders - especially among military veterans and police themselves - it is deeply unfortunate how many of them are armed.

 

[StGerardMajella]

Re-read my post. Nothing I said was false.

Just look to the Middle East and tell me that Christians are not being targeted. And this is reported in well-known Catholic journals. If you think that Christians are not being targeted, you are sadly mistaken. Christians are becoming one of the most persecuted groups in the world right now, targeted for elimination. Even the Pope has lamented this fact.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Re-read my post.

Just look to the Middle East and tell me that Christians are not being targeted. And this is reported in well-known Catholic journals. If you think that Christians are not being targeted, you are sadly mistaken. Christians are becoming one of the most persecuted groups in the world right now, targeted for elimination.

You cannot apply what is going on in the Middle East to what is happening in America.

There is ZERO evidence of life-and-death persecution in the US. None.

Yeah, we have some challenging laws, yes, we have people who behave terribly (I’ve mentioned incidents above) but MOST gun violence cases have NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with mental illness.

To ascribe the idea that now Catholics in the US should be in fear (like the Middle East) is just false, uneducated hysteria.

The attack was NOT because of religion, period. This was a personal conflict that could of played out anywhere–school, daycare, walmart.

This is NOT a sign of persecution. Period. Your statement is that Sutherland Springs was a result of Christians being targets. They were not. This was a personal vendetta of a sick man who wanted to harm someone who kept him from abusing his wife (and kids–although that has not been explicity stated by the media, only implied)

 

[BayCityRickL]

In the Diocese of Saginaw (Michigan) there has been security training for all the ushers in the diocese. My parish has locked various doors that would otherwise allow people to wander where they should not be.

Aside from mass shootings of recent months, I’ve visited some Orthodox Church websites that are very anti-Pope, anti-Catholic. I didn’t realize so much hostility was out there.

I do not feel safe at the local adoration chapel, which is near a residential drug treatment center and near a public housing complex where there has been non-random violence. It doesn’t seem safe for me to go there in the middle of the night, if I were inclined to go there otherwise. I don’t know what security measures are already in place (if any). There’s certainly no place to hide in this adoration chapel.

 

[StGerardMajella]

There is ZERO evidence of life-and-death persecution in the US. None.

Please stop casting false aspersions.

but MOST gun violence cases have NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with mental illness.

There could be a million reasons as to a shooter’s motive, none of which matter if you are the victim shot dead.

The fact remains that these mass shootings are occurring on a regular basis, and yes, churches in the U.S. are very much a target by radical elements of various strains.

The violence in the Middle East against Christians is very real and not to be discounted. And there are dozens of incidents in the U.S. and in Western Europe where Christians have been targeted by radical fringe elements. The Church is worldwide, not just in the U.S.

All I am saying is that a good dose of reality is in order. Perspective on this subject depends on where you live and to a certain degree on personal experience. Terrorists in my own local area have been caught specifically targeting mass shootings in churches - in the United States. To just ignore this fact and not take adequate steps at prevention is irresponsible.

Your statement is that Sutherland Springs was a result of Christians being targets.

I didn’t make that statement. You are clearly misreading the post.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I do not feel safe at the local adoration chapel, which is near a residential drug treatment center and near a public housing complex where there has been non-random violence. It doesn’t seem safe for me to go there in the middle of the night

I’ve been to adoration chapels where the door is locked after a certain hour and no one is let in during the night except the adorers on the schedule. Those who wish to just drop in are welcome to come during regular “business hours” when the church is unlocked. Makes sense to me.

 

[michaelArc]

You add should “Fellow Americans,” to the beginning of post title.

I’ve never felt unsafe in any church, but I’ve also never attended mass in the US.

 

[Inisfallen]

It would not surprise me if at most Masses that there are armed undercover police officers to which the public is completely unaware, especially in the inner city churches and in Masses with a large number of attendees.

It would surprise the heck out of me, having lived in an inner-city parish, in a very bad neighborhood (New Yorkers will remember what Avenue B was like in the 70s and 80s, especially from Houston up to about 5th Street) for years. I can assure you that there were no undercover cops there. I supposed there could have been an off-duty cop or two who lived in the neighborhood and went to Mass at my church.

 

[Midwest88]

Yes, I have no legit reason not to.

 

[superblue]

well considering that Churches of any religion are statsitically safer in America than those in the Middle East, and that the Texas Church shooting had nothing to do with religion, what isn’t to feel safe about when going to a Church.

Crimes happen every where and will continue to happen. If I had to consider bringing a weapon for self defense some where public, I would simply move to a safer area instead of living and moving around in a dangerous populated area.

 

[Midwest88]

Texas Church shooting had nothing to do with religion,

Apparently the shooter was an atheist and seemed to have a beef with Christians. Some say it was over a domestic quarrel with his ex-wife who, with her parents, attended church every so often. If was just over a domestic quarrel why shoot up a church?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

He didn’t have a “beef with Christians” in particular. He was a vicious abuser who had issues with ANYONE who told him we could not abuse his wife. He was in a mental health facility. The reason it occurred in the church was that it gave him a time, place and small area to ensure he met his mark.

If anything, this case exemplifies why we should take domestic violence seriously and not give dangrous people a slap on the wrist when they abuse their family members.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The fact that he fractured his baby stepson’s skull to me means this man should have been locked up for 20 years minimum

 

[superblue]

K i’ll believe that when the 50 page manifesto about his " beef with christians " comes to light.