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jaimeleglise
Guest
I wish I had the courage to speak up more often when I see something wrong.
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anon98328916
Guest
It is the same in all walks of life I’m afraid, you will meet all kinds of people that’s like that of all different faiths not just Catholics! There are good people out their you just haven’t meet them yet.Or Christians in general?
My non Christian friends were talking about Christians and they came to this conclusion. Sadly, I could see this too. I have mentioned before that the most unkind people I have met were Catholics and whilst I know that the religion does not make terrible people, I realised that we don’t really look like a friendly bunch of people
Seen these people in CAF, in church, in school, on social media (especially social media!).
Could just be my experience.
Don’t really know the point of this post…maybe to remind ourselves to be a nice person, maybe stop thinking that we are better mothers/fathers/sisters/sons/Catholics. I know I fall into the trap sometimes…
Just midnight ramblings from my bedroom…probably won’t remember me typing this. Goodnight x
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NeedImprovement
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Non Christians do have a tendency to misuse the word* judgmental* when referring to Christians . . . in a way similar to that in which the gay lobby uses the word discrimination: It ends up being their way of justifying whichever actions they desire ; whichever actions please them. It’s a type of veiled cry for affirmation for their acts. But we can’t grant that affirmation because it has been given to us to know and proclaim the truth. And as Ike put it, we judge the act or the sin, but not the heart. We follow our Lord in loving the sinner but not the sin.
However, I don’t believe that Jesus’ parable about the speck in our brother’s eye and the wooden beam in our own eye [Matt 7:5 , Luke 6:42] was only meant exclusively for Catholics . . .more like Therese 11 says :"* all walks of life.*"
I’m very glad that we as Catholics are judgmental - in the correct sense of the word. Father John Hardon S.J., in his Modern Catholic Dictionary defines judgment as* an act of the mind affirming or denying something*. The reason we can do this is that our holy Catholic faith provides us with a sense of conviction:
Although that one has on occasion confused some of us as Catholics, It just might keep* them* quiet for a while.
However, I don’t believe that Jesus’ parable about the speck in our brother’s eye and the wooden beam in our own eye [Matt 7:5 , Luke 6:42] was only meant exclusively for Catholics . . .more like Therese 11 says :"* all walks of life.*"
I’m very glad that we as Catholics are judgmental - in the correct sense of the word. Father John Hardon S.J., in his Modern Catholic Dictionary defines judgment as* an act of the mind affirming or denying something*. The reason we can do this is that our holy Catholic faith provides us with a sense of conviction:
So much of what Pope Francis says gets distorted by the media, but,just this once, @ Lea101 : What if you were to quote Pope Francis to your non Christian friends ? . . . You know . . . that one the media kept repeating over and over again: “Who am I to judge.?”
Although that one has on occasion confused some of us as Catholics, It just might keep* them* quiet for a while.
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LiamQ
Guest
Yes, I do think lots of Catholics can be judgmental, and precisely in the way that many people understand that term. I myself can be very judgmental.
I think it comes from following the “straight and narrow” and seeing so many people who refuse to even budge towards an objective morality. Yes, frustration and pride can get the better of us, and pride is precisely what those who love God are often tempted with. Yes, we can become judgmental, in the sense of at least being somewhat condemnatory of those people, or of at least trying to judge motives.
On the whole, though, I think your average faithful Catholic realizes this is wrong, and does try to be as loving towards our neighbor as we are called to be. We know that God will give everyone sufficient grace to be saved, but He doesn’t give every individual sufficient grace at every moment of their lives. Perhaps that sinner over there will actually become a great saint. And perhaps they will cooperate with grace more than I ever do.
Having said all of this, don’t forget that Christ said that we will know them by their fruits, and we cannot possibly do that without discerning good from the bad.
I think it comes from following the “straight and narrow” and seeing so many people who refuse to even budge towards an objective morality. Yes, frustration and pride can get the better of us, and pride is precisely what those who love God are often tempted with. Yes, we can become judgmental, in the sense of at least being somewhat condemnatory of those people, or of at least trying to judge motives.
On the whole, though, I think your average faithful Catholic realizes this is wrong, and does try to be as loving towards our neighbor as we are called to be. We know that God will give everyone sufficient grace to be saved, but He doesn’t give every individual sufficient grace at every moment of their lives. Perhaps that sinner over there will actually become a great saint. And perhaps they will cooperate with grace more than I ever do.
Having said all of this, don’t forget that Christ said that we will know them by their fruits, and we cannot possibly do that without discerning good from the bad.
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Eliza10
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Exactly. It is politically and culturally correct, and diligently encouraged, to be judgmental about Catholics, and Christians in general!
To the OP: No. Not any more than others. In fact, I think LESS than others. People in general are generally judgmental. Catholics and other Christians are taught that this is a sin, and that they will be judged as they judge others, so for those serious about living God’s way, they at least have reason to work against their nature. And they do.
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mommy_k
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I find the Catholics I know to be obedient to church teachings, and that can’t be considered judgemental, in the sense that is meant here.
Following the right path needs judgement, and dicernment.
If you are asking if Catholics are unkind, I would say that is based on the person, not the Catholic church. The same message can come across as either gentle or harsh depending on who’s talking.
Following the right path needs judgement, and dicernment.
If you are asking if Catholics are unkind, I would say that is based on the person, not the Catholic church. The same message can come across as either gentle or harsh depending on who’s talking.
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Lea101
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I’m not really talking about us sticking to church teachings, but how we go about it. And being close minded
Eg in the case of same sex marriage-> i know Christians who cannot defend Christian teaching and end up being mean to people who are gay. My dad even banned me from talking to a girl because she’s a lesbian? The poor girl is even used to it, since we were in a catholic school
Or when it comes to parenting-mothers will judge another mother for the way she raised up her child (eg public school)
Or if a girl were to wear little clothing, it’s always the religious people that will say she has no self respect, she’s a collection of body parts
Basically things that either make us look closeted or ignorant (when it comes to morality, not all of us can explain issues properly, we end up hurting instead of educating, and then we put our hands up and say we are not judgemental, we are just following God)
I will say that I find Catholics a tad less judgemental than other Christians
Eg in the case of same sex marriage-> i know Christians who cannot defend Christian teaching and end up being mean to people who are gay. My dad even banned me from talking to a girl because she’s a lesbian? The poor girl is even used to it, since we were in a catholic school
Or when it comes to parenting-mothers will judge another mother for the way she raised up her child (eg public school)
Or if a girl were to wear little clothing, it’s always the religious people that will say she has no self respect, she’s a collection of body parts
Basically things that either make us look closeted or ignorant (when it comes to morality, not all of us can explain issues properly, we end up hurting instead of educating, and then we put our hands up and say we are not judgemental, we are just following God)
I will say that I find Catholics a tad less judgemental than other Christians
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holyrood
Guest
The word judgmental no longer means anything other than, “You don’t agree wholeheartedly and applaud anything I want to do.”
My parents are Catholic. I don’t think they’re very nice people.
On the other hand, they don’t attack and destroy anyone’s property as these angry left-wing feminists are trying to do to a cathedral and the men praying the Rosary as they stand non-violenty around it, protecting it from vandalism:
: youtube.com/watch?v=fOCD_T9Qqpc
Nor do they attack people carrying signs that espouse views different from theirs:
:youtube.com/watch?v=V3YIIDgSkiA
Nor do they attack those who disagree with them politically. youtube.com/watch?v=w_PZfUNi9ek
And they certainly haven’t flown planes into any buildings, forcing people to choose between burning to death or jumping to their death, or pushed anyone off a rooftop for being gay, or beheaded anyone for having a different faith than they do.
My parents are Catholic. I don’t think they’re very nice people.
On the other hand, they don’t attack and destroy anyone’s property as these angry left-wing feminists are trying to do to a cathedral and the men praying the Rosary as they stand non-violenty around it, protecting it from vandalism:
: youtube.com/watch?v=fOCD_T9Qqpc
Nor do they attack people carrying signs that espouse views different from theirs:
:youtube.com/watch?v=V3YIIDgSkiA
Nor do they attack those who disagree with them politically. youtube.com/watch?v=w_PZfUNi9ek
And they certainly haven’t flown planes into any buildings, forcing people to choose between burning to death or jumping to their death, or pushed anyone off a rooftop for being gay, or beheaded anyone for having a different faith than they do.
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Elena321
Guest
From my personal experience, I would say some Catholics (or other Christians) are and some aren’t.
At the same time,other people judge Catholics harshly for having (in their view) “stupid,outdated beliefs” such as not agreeing with gay marriage etc.
I think the Catholics that are very judgemental are sometimes the people who take Catholicism to be like a identity/club (if that makes sense).
I find it weird and troubling when I see Catholics of my background say they hate (or say other negative comments) about other (Slavic country) people who are Orthodox religion.
And likewise,some Orthodox people say hateful comments about Catholics too.
Some are so proud to be Catholic or whatever but don’t follow what Jesus said about Loving your neighbour.To me it seems that “Catholic” is more like an identity thing for them.
I think sometimes some people also judge for “self preservation” sake.
For example I sometime notice myself judging people who are fully tattooed with neck and hands tattooed and I think I’m judging them in a misguided attempt to feel safe-Ie:sometimes it seems you have to judge abit/be wary for safeties sake but I could be wrong.
Regarding the little clothing,maybe some people also judge due to feeling jealousy/discontent with themselves?
Like some women,if their husbands are looking at the girl with the sexy clothes,they may say something about the girl (she has no self respect etc) instead of focusing on what responsibility the husband has for what hes doing.
At the same time,other people judge Catholics harshly for having (in their view) “stupid,outdated beliefs” such as not agreeing with gay marriage etc.
I think the Catholics that are very judgemental are sometimes the people who take Catholicism to be like a identity/club (if that makes sense).
I find it weird and troubling when I see Catholics of my background say they hate (or say other negative comments) about other (Slavic country) people who are Orthodox religion.
And likewise,some Orthodox people say hateful comments about Catholics too.
Some are so proud to be Catholic or whatever but don’t follow what Jesus said about Loving your neighbour.To me it seems that “Catholic” is more like an identity thing for them.
I think sometimes some people also judge for “self preservation” sake.
For example I sometime notice myself judging people who are fully tattooed with neck and hands tattooed and I think I’m judging them in a misguided attempt to feel safe-Ie:sometimes it seems you have to judge abit/be wary for safeties sake but I could be wrong.
Regarding the little clothing,maybe some people also judge due to feeling jealousy/discontent with themselves?
Like some women,if their husbands are looking at the girl with the sexy clothes,they may say something about the girl (she has no self respect etc) instead of focusing on what responsibility the husband has for what hes doing.
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mommy_k
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You do realize stating Catholics are judgemental-- is judgemental?
And by judging a group this way is stereotyping?
I would never base my opinions about a group based on the actions of a few members.
Again, some people have difficulty upholding, and defending church laws in a merciful way. But this is an individual thing, not the entire group.
If someone is misguided, or broken or just a bad influence, we are called to teach and inform, mercifully.We are to surround ourselves with things from above, not below…if the people or person continues to sin, then we are instructed to shake the dust off and avoid occasion of sin.
When it’s broken down like this, it is not being judgemental, it is called discerning. Our goal is to go to heaven and bring as many souls as we can by following this path. Satan tricky and knows that by planting seeds of doubt is very effective, and he is the author of confusion. To ask how is soneone hurting me by using abc or dressing unpurely or gay marriage is Satan’s subtle tactics. One person doing these things is not the focus…but it spirals into a society.
He wants to take out the Catholic church, and having a mindset that Catholics are judgemental is a step in this direction. He wants people to feel bad about this…, by making them think they are being judgemental or unkind…
God never changes, only society does, and His truths are timeless.
And by judging a group this way is stereotyping?
I would never base my opinions about a group based on the actions of a few members.
Again, some people have difficulty upholding, and defending church laws in a merciful way. But this is an individual thing, not the entire group.
If someone is misguided, or broken or just a bad influence, we are called to teach and inform, mercifully.We are to surround ourselves with things from above, not below…if the people or person continues to sin, then we are instructed to shake the dust off and avoid occasion of sin.
When it’s broken down like this, it is not being judgemental, it is called discerning. Our goal is to go to heaven and bring as many souls as we can by following this path. Satan tricky and knows that by planting seeds of doubt is very effective, and he is the author of confusion. To ask how is soneone hurting me by using abc or dressing unpurely or gay marriage is Satan’s subtle tactics. One person doing these things is not the focus…but it spirals into a society.
He wants to take out the Catholic church, and having a mindset that Catholics are judgemental is a step in this direction. He wants people to feel bad about this…, by making them think they are being judgemental or unkind…
God never changes, only society does, and His truths are timeless.
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Lea101
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I guess that’s sort of true.
I’m aware that almost every group make negative comments. Maybe it’s because the Western world (and countries that are perhaps influenced by them) has more Christians, so they speak louder (eg Christians in the middle east are probably way different from the way we behave). Either way, it’s not a good look for us. Which is sad, because we have such beautiful teachings
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anon98328916
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Yes everything you have said is so very true.
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Maximilan_Kolbe
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All parents do it to the extent that subconsciously say to themselves “I disapprove of that.” Lots of parents would object to their child saying the Lord’s prayer in the morning, or even the pledge of allegiance. Not unique to Christians.
Her clothing may in fact be immodest, and I know secular parents who believe just as strongly as this Catholic parent in age appropriate clothing, as well as modesty. Who are these nebulous religious people you keep referring to?
And if you want to se the other end of the spectrum, go listen to conversations about or read a message board discussing the Duggars, for example. Think about the comments they get from non-Christian perspectives. Not unique to Christians.
Not being well-informed does not make one more judgmental. I could debate politics with someone for hours with facts out the wazoo, and in the end, they usually fall back on"well, I just think that…" No facts, just their judgment.
Even people who claim they feel Christians are more judgmental are making a broad judgment on that group; is that not judgmental?
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1lucy1
Guest
From my experience, Catholics are the least judgemental group of christians…
But yes judgmental but not in a good way…the church is fine, it’s just the catholics.i think that’s what you are trying to say.
I don’t understand why people keep saying that others are judgmental. It doesn’t matter what others do. They can be horrible or not but we are called to love and be merciful and educate/correct others properly instead of making mean judgments on others…
But yes judgmental but not in a good way…the church is fine, it’s just the catholics.i think that’s what you are trying to say.
I don’t understand why people keep saying that others are judgmental. It doesn’t matter what others do. They can be horrible or not but we are called to love and be merciful and educate/correct others properly instead of making mean judgments on others…
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BornInMarch
Guest
I know how you feel, You are not alone.Or Christians in general?
My non Christian friends were talking about Christians and they came to this conclusion. Sadly, I could see this too. I have mentioned before that the most unkind people I have met were Catholics and whilst I know that the religion does not make terrible people, I realised that we don’t really look like a friendly bunch of people
Seen these people in CAF, in church, in school, on social media (especially social media!).
Could just be my experience.
Don’t really know the point of this post…maybe to remind ourselves to be a nice person, maybe stop thinking that we are better mothers/fathers/sisters/sons/Catholics. I know I fall into the trap sometimes…
Just midnight ramblings from my bedroom…probably won’t remember me typing this. Goodnight x
It’s not that Catholics or even Christians in general are hard of heart, rather it is that a few of them are and that those ones are the loudest. The same can be said of Muslims, Jews, Atheists, and other groups. That’s why “Kind Fundamentalist” is seen by many as an oxymoron (whether justifiably or not).
They might now know that they’re driving others away from God, they might know and not care, but either way I am sure their bitterness does not give them any happiness.
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BornInMarch
Guest
It matters because it drives others away from Christ.
If someone doesn’t know that much about God and they hear a self-proclaimed Christian say “All unbaptized babies are tortured forever in Hell and part of the joy of Heaven is watching them squeal” (something I’ve actually heard a Christian on this forum say once … I have since blocked that individual …) then that person might think all Christians are like that and decide that he doesn’t want a relationship with Christ. It’s made even more tragic because he’s rejecting Christ without knowing what Christ is really like.
We want Christianity to be a welcoming haven, not a bolted door that keeps outsiders away.
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Lea101
Guest
Yeah, plus I realised we tend to want to win arguments, instead of actually sincerely wanting them to understand us?
Don’t know if I make any sense…but like, kind of reminds me when the Pope said something like we should apologize to the LGBT community for being really harsh, and a lot of people was so offended because they said they were never homophobic and were just defending the faith. Sometimes empathizing with the other (even if it’s just perceived judgment) is better than winning an argument.
Idk, I started this thread when I was half asleep, lol
I was watching a video youtu.be/725Cby-H8rk
And I think this priest kind of explained my POV better and I hope as many of you watch it. Although this video is more focused on the Catholics treat people in the LGBT community instead of other issues I mentioned
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NeedImprovement
Guest
It was a really good video, - nice clear points made by Father Schmitz, particularly I thought, in his example of why we could not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. Thanks for the link Lea101.
I don’t know if it’s because I wasn’t half asleep when I watched the video, but I did come to several conclusions which were somewhat different from yours
Those of us who have a family member(s) who experiences same-sex attraction or who work with or come in regular contact with someone(s) who experiences same sex attraction , already have a fair idea that it is always about “us” and never about “us and* them*.”
In the past, we have frequently witnessed individuals who promote the homosexual agenda coming on to these threads, then leveling a generalized accusation of judgmentalism,homophobia, discrimination, hatred of gays against all Catholics in general - oddly, just as soon as someone posts an opinion in opposition to gay-] marriage/-] (as if none of us had ever been in regular contact with people who experience same sex attraction).
If you believe Fr. Schmitz did a better job explaining your POV , again, we should probably emphasize that he appeared to do it * without* calling Catholics “too judgmental”.
40:53
Which in all fairness begs the question : Who (if anyone) then, can actually be offended by that ?
Loveless,Narcissistic Sex Addicts: A Gay Man Critiques His Community
“whole push for gay marriage was a load of self-indulgent cr*p”
Elton John urges boycott after gay designers Dolce and Gabbana come out against gay ‘marriage,’ adoption
Most Gays Don’t Want to ‘Marry’, Adopt – French gay leader
I don’t know if it’s because I wasn’t half asleep when I watched the video, but I did come to several conclusions which were somewhat different from yours
Father Mike’s actual words weren’t* judgment*, but rather* isolation and rejection* :. . . Sometimes empathizing with the other (even if it’s just perceived judgment) is better than winning an argument. . .
- this was more in support of his insistence that we be clear, which subsequently creates a “cognitive dissonance.”
We should try to avoid painting everyone (Catholics in this case) with the same broad brush - especially if we’re intent on suggesting that we or they are “too judgmental.”. . .
And I think this priest kind of explained my POV better and I hope as many of you watch it. Although this video is more focused on the Catholics treat people in the LGBT community instead of other issues I mentioned
Those of us who have a family member(s) who experiences same-sex attraction or who work with or come in regular contact with someone(s) who experiences same sex attraction , already have a fair idea that it is always about “us” and never about “us and* them*.”
In the past, we have frequently witnessed individuals who promote the homosexual agenda coming on to these threads, then leveling a generalized accusation of judgmentalism,homophobia, discrimination, hatred of gays against all Catholics in general - oddly, just as soon as someone posts an opinion in opposition to gay-] marriage/-] (as if none of us had ever been in regular contact with people who experience same sex attraction).
If you believe Fr. Schmitz did a better job explaining your POV , again, we should probably emphasize that he appeared to do it * without* calling Catholics “too judgmental”.
40:53
Father is not speaking about being “judgmental” here either. What he is basically alluding to, is that* we should be willing to suffer for those who are destroying us* :
In an earlier post, we read
Let’s be clear. Being opposed to gay marriage is not the same as being mean to people who are gay. I further believe it to be a non-argument to attempt to establish a direct correlation between the two. When we remove conjecture and examine the facts instead , we discover that most people who experience same-sex attraction are also against same-sex marriage and same -sex adoption. In other words, most people who identify as** LGBT are also against same-sex marriage and same-sex adoption - just like we are.**
Which in all fairness begs the question : Who (if anyone) then, can actually be offended by that ?
Loveless,Narcissistic Sex Addicts: A Gay Man Critiques His Community
“whole push for gay marriage was a load of self-indulgent cr*p”
Elton John urges boycott after gay designers Dolce and Gabbana come out against gay ‘marriage,’ adoption
Most Gays Don’t Want to ‘Marry’, Adopt – French gay leader
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