Do you go to Hell if you commit suicide?

[Timothysis]

I’m not claiming moral authority and truth. The Catholic Church does, and did so and will do so.
And, was wrong.

The Catholic Church STILL holds moral authority and Truth. Suicide is STILL a grave sin but the Church leaves it up to Christ to decide who will and will not suffer eternally because of it. The Church has NEVER declared anyone to be condemned because it is not Her place to do so.

So, exactly what chip do you have on your shoulder?

 

[Timothysis]

Now only if the Catholic Church understood this. :sad_yes:

The Church perfectly understands this; why do you think we pray constantly for those in charge?

 

[CMatt25]

The Church perfectly understands this; why do you think we pray constantly for those in charge?

It’s always a good thing to pray for others. But to be assured they get it right even though they are already believed to be infallible on faith and morals?

 

[Timothysis]

It’s always a good thing to pray for others. But to be assured they get it right even though they are already believed to be infallible on faith and morals?

Huh???

 

[StrawberryJam]

The Catholic Church STILL holds moral authority and Truth. Suicide is STILL a grave sin but the Church leaves it up to Christ to decide who will and will not suffer eternally because of it. The Church has NEVER declared anyone to be condemned because it is not Her place to do so.

So, exactly what chip do you have on your shoulder?

The Catholic Church did not leave it up to Christ as to who would get a christian burial if they committed suicide until recently. Because, she was ignorant on the topic.

 

[jmcrae]

All you are doing is telling me what the catholic church finally changed it’s mind about.
You are not telling me why so many people for so long had to suffer her ignorance on the topic.

You seem to be assuming that someone outside the Church knew differently. Is that what you’re saying?

 

[jmcrae]

It’s always a good thing to pray for others. But to be assured they get it right even though they are already believed to be infallible on faith and morals?

We have to obey them because they are in charge. The fact that they are infallible under certain circumstances is a gift to us from God - it is not for their benefit, but for ours.

We would be required to obey them anyway, even if there were no circumstances under which they could ever be infallible.

 

[Abeyta85]

I found these links up in the Ask An Apologist forum and they look good so I hope they help.

• ** Can culpability be completely mitigated in a suicide?**
• ** How do I answer my children’s questions about suicide?**

Here is the section from the Catechism on suicide.

I think this best sums it up, from there on its a guess, we are not to assume or judge.

 

[clmowry]

I’m not claiming moral authority and truth. The Catholic Church does, and did so and will do so.
And, was wrong.

What exactly has been Church teaching on the subject.

My “understanding” is that there has “always” been some consideration taken into account for a persons mental state, but I’ve never seen any actual church documents on the subject.

Does anyone have references to the actual texts? All I’ve seen are the statements from the current cannon law, not what proceeded them.

Chuck

 

[jmcrae]

What exactly has been Church teaching on the subject.

My “understanding” is that there has “always” been some consideration taken into account for a persons mental state, but I’ve never seen any actual church documents on the subject.

Does anyone have references to the actual texts? All I’ve seen are the statements from the current cannon law, not what proceeded them.

Chuck

Yes, even when suicides were not being buried on Church property, or given monuments, they were still not considered to be “definitely in Hell.” Same as someone who dies while committing treachery against their country, or while committing a murder, doesn’t get a monument, but we don’t assume that they are definitely in Hell.

 

[choy]

Greater understanding of the psychological distress that leads to suicide. In former times, it was assumed that people were choosing to kill themselves willfully, and for the purpose of “murdering the whole world” as certain 19th century writers phrased it.

Today, while we still understand that suicide is an angry action, we also understand that people only become that angry when they are under unendurable stress, and when they have suffered a total mental collapse.

i agree. it takes a considerable amount of mental, emotional and spiritual anguish for one to perform suicide. the aspect of willfully commiting it is questionable. it is up to God to judge it because we are not sure what the state of that person’s mental health is at the time of death. they could have lost rational thought and therefore the act is not willed

 

[kegger]

All you are doing is telling me what the catholic church finally changed it’s mind about.
You are not telling me why so many people for so long had to suffer her ignorance on the topic.

Straw,
I think the answer is a bit less black and white than you were hoping for. The Church has always taguht and still does that suicide is a grave, desperate, grievous act. Not something to honor, regardless of the person’s culpability in it, or their state of mind. So in the past the Church simply said in cases of suicide (or other cases where someone was a very public enemy of the Church (excommunicated for instance) whereby a funeral mass would seem a bit contradictory, scandalous) that we not reward that act with an honorable funeral mass, because of the very mixed message it might send to the faithful . The Church was not judging the salvation of that soul back then nor now. it was all about the ceremony, the ritual. That’s much less of importance than the ultimate state of the soul. The Church still teaches that. Exceptions to that practice in the past were many. The only difference now is that we as a people and society are a bit more sensitive to frailties of human psyche, disorders , and suicide. And we know much more about it too. so the church has opened up its stance on these ceremonies. But the teaching on morality of suicide has not changed. Never will. Bishops can and do still push for private, sullen funerals where suicide looks to be a person losing hope in God’s assistance. Teaching on morality hasn’t changed. This is only about the ceremony. You may argue it’s a flipflop for the Church, but its not. Church was cognizant back then and now on the message it sends by how it conducts certain public cermonies and rituals and changing the way these are done and the logistics and pomp and circumstance of these rituals will forever change as people and societies evolve/ devolve. Faith and morals won’t change. Sorry to burst your bubble!

 

[seesea]

I am the Messenger of Allah said that he killed himself from anything, it will enter the fire and tortured and I’m sure

 

[VexinConfection]

A wise Catholic Preist once said of a suicide that he was no more guilty than a man who fell victim to highway man and was robbed of his belongings. I like to think of it that way-my best friend hung herself. She was the victim of evil and she fell prey to it-her fault was weakness-we’ve all suffered that sin but have forgiveness.

 

[Maultsby1234]

yes.

 

[Timothysis]

yes.

Well, that settles it.

 

[Maureen1125]

The problem with suicide is that once dead the individual is unable to accept salvation. The unpardonable sin then becomes, not the suicide itself, but rather the refusal of the gift of salvation.

According to the theology of the Catholic Church, death by suicide is considered a grave or serious sin. The chief Catholic Christian argument is that one’s life is the property of God and a gift to the world, and to destroy that life is to wrongly assert dominion over what is God’s and is a tragic loss of hope. NOTE: in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Number 2283 states, “We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.”

 

[system]

All you are doing is telling me what the catholic church finally changed it’s mind about.
You are not telling me why so many people for so long had to suffer her ignorance on the topic.

Before Vatican II, church authorities were convinced that [suicide] was murder: it was killing yourself, and therefore would be a very serious sin, what we call a mortal sin. And for that reason, a person that commits suicide could not be buried in a Catholic cemetery. But all of that changed with Vatican II in 1962-65, and there was a realization that people that commit suicide are almost invariably mentally ill and therefore would not be held responsible before God. So since that time, a suicide victim is given a Christian burial and buried in the Catholic cemetery.
[This is an excerpt from an interview with Monsignor Chester Michael]