Do you hate Mass?

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I find it a little bit ironic that you have St. Pio as your avatar; he was known to prefer TLM and continued to say it in private when possible.

[St. Pio is one of my favorite saints as well and I feel very close to him. If you ever get the opportunity to visit San Giovanni, go! It is wonderful. In 2006, our tour group had the chance to sit and chat with the priest who was his caretaker in the final years of his life.]

 

[Cat]

Okay…if it wasn’t sarcasm, then I deeply apologize. However, to me that would mean that you are just genuinely spiteful toward your fellow Catholics and/or don’t understand that joy does not require toe-tapping music and poor liturgy.

Regarding your question, I already answered it. There is nothing that brings me more joy than the sacrifice of the Mass, because of its salvific effects. A Mass that unites me more closely to Jesus on the cross through prayerful, reverent worship, also unites me more to His glorius resurrection.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I think joy is equated with toe-tapping music and poor liturgy? If I have given this impression, I must have worded somthing very badly in one of my posts.

 

[Dauphin]

I forgot to ask. Is he doing this during the homily or at the announcements or something? Just curious.

Typically, the hootenanny breaks out during the priest’s monologue at the beginning of Mass following the sign of the cross, the homily, and the “final announcements” just before the dismissal. Our pastor’s a real gas - he makes sure everyone’s entertained. He always remarks how much he’s “enjoyed our celebration”.

 

[Dauphin]

Well I see that it’s taken a while but there are usually two or three posters who eventually bring every thread around to blaming the condition on the Church to the NO. And by the way, I know you didn’t say this but another implied that more people would believe in the true presence if they attended an EF. That’s hogwash. You believe in it or you don’t. If you don’t, you’re not really Catholic are you?

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. As one prays, one believes. You can’t obscure certain doctrines in the Mass and expect everyone to believe them.

Suppose you did a poll of people leaving the Novus Ordo - what percentage do you honestly think would say that God just descended upon the altar - that we just participated in the Sacrifice of Christ, offered for the remission of sins? The Sunday Hootenanny just doesn’t convey this reality.

 

[I_Believe]

So far, I_Believe has given me an excellent answer, the one that seems to be in keeping with what I have read in books like Imitation of Christ and The Catechism of the Catholic Church, and that seems to line up with what I was taught in RCIA and by the priests in our parishes. Thank you for the answer.

However, I_Believe, I think that you are leaving out the factor of “joy.” The Redemptorists apparently emphasize the “Joy of the Eucharist.” (That’s what I was told by a Franciscan friar–I don’t pretend to understand exactly what this means, since I haven’t done any studies of Redemptorists.) I think that what you are saying seems to be tipped too far into the “non-joy” or “hate” side. Surely there is a balance? Surely Catholicism isn’t so bleak? And even though the Mass is a sacrifice, surely there is joy and pleasure? Must it all be a misery? This isn’t what I glean from Imitation and CCC and the various priests in my parishes.

Thanks for your reply Cat.

It’s tough for me to answer and speak of Joy. I’m not aware of the Joy of the Eucharist teaching, but I did try to find it on their site.(the C.SS.R., not the F.SS.R. which is the recently regularized group). I could not find any info on it, but I know they are inspired by St Alphonsus.

St Alphonsus seems to stress that any happiness we will find in this life is in accepting the will of God. This leads me to believe there is true joy and false joy.

So it comes back to what Catholicism demands of us, in order to truly understand the will of God. We can’t find true joy unless we embrace the whole package imo.

Again, I’m not comfortable speaking of joy, because I’m doing such a poor job at finding the balance you speak of.

I will say, I don’t believe we must all be sour faced saints. But then again, I’m confident many of them are in heaven.

 

[BSHoop96]

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. As one prays, one believes. You can’t obscure certain doctrines in the Mass and expect everyone to believe them.

Suppose you did a poll of people leaving the Novus Ordo - what percentage do you honestly think would say that God just descended upon the altar - that we just participated in the Sacrifice of Christ, offered for the remission of sins?** The Sunday Hootenanny **just doesn’t convey this reality.

Really Daupin, is this necessary? I am really getting quite tired of hearing this sort of talk. Your posts are full of them. I get that you don’t approve but really…you are terribly unkind. I think it is sufficient to tell us the abuse without a cutting commentary on each one. We get it.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Really Daupin, is this necessary? I am really getting quite tired of hearing this sort of talk. Your posts are full of them. I get that you don’t approve but really…you are terribly unkind. I think it is sufficient to tell us the abuse without a cutting commentary on each one. We get it.

He was being “unkind” to nobody (that’s just reading something in to what he stated) and made a pertinent point.

These sort of personal, emotional responses always seem to come when somebody is pierced by logic and truth exactly where it hurts.

I have been to plenty of parishes and plenty of NO masses where I KNOW a majority of the people do not realize what just went on, what they just participated in. Very sad, and very true.

 

[ProVobis]

Well I see that it’s taken a while but there are usually two or three posters who eventually bring every thread around to blaming the condition on the Church to the NO.

Just an observation that more people leave right after they communicate in the NO. Perhaps those that drive all the way to attend the EF appreciate the Mass more? It really has nothing to do with being Catholic as much boredom perhaps. Just a guess.

 

[I_Believe]

From what I can tell, here in town at least, it doesn’t matter whether it a diocean OF or EF, an independent EF, or an SSPX EF, the percentage of folks who remain in prayer after the Mass is the about the same.

I’ve seen the same % of folks leave the local SSPX Mass right away as I have the local Novus Ordos.

The parish I’ve noticed an unusually larger number, the exception, is the local weekday NO parish I attend. Some weekdays, nearly half stay if we include those who visit the Our Lady of Lourdes Grotto the church has, after Mass.

 

[adstrinity]

Oooh! Guess what I saw today? I went to the TLM tonight and while the priests (one or two were acting as deacons) had their backs to the congregation, two little girls running across the front of the church (to get to the stairs to the bathroom?). I also saw a young man check his phone and after the Eucharist, open his phone and inconspicuously text. At the Latin Mass. Hmmm…

 

[turtleoompa]

If one is truely educated in what the Mass is all about(ie. knowing the significant very deep meaning behind all our actions and words) then it is not boring! I find it very meaningful and fulfilling! Please do some research as to what every detail in the Mass signifies. Good luck!

 

[BSHoop96]

He was being “unkind” to nobody (that’s just reading something in to what he stated) and made a pertinent point.

**These sort of personal, emotional responses always seem to come when somebody is pierced by logic and truth exactly where it hurts. **

I have been to plenty of parishes and plenty of NO masses where I KNOW a majority of the people do not realize what just went on, what they just participated in. Very sad, and very true.

Oh please…read Daupin’s posts on here. Hootenanny (said more than once I believe) …priest’s a gas, and on and on. I had asked for examples, I could have done without all the uncharitable remarks along with them.

So much for that thread you started the other day in the name of civil conversation, huh?

 

[I_Believe]

Cat, I just found out a minute or so ago why I feel as I do. No wonder.

I’ve been reading St Alphonsus, and come to find out, he is the patron saint of the scrupulous. (Seriously, he is.)

 

[Lee_M]

I find it a little bit ironic that you have St. Pio as your avatar; he was known to prefer TLM and continued to say it in private when possible.

Well, I feel a little bit offended that you would bring my avatar up because I prefer the Norvus Ordo. St. Pio was an extraordinary man and it even showed in his last Mass when he preferred to offer a Low Mass because of his health but out of obedience to his superior, he offered the High Mass.

I don’t have a problem with the TLM. I prefer the NO because I can follow along with it easier in my native language. When done with reverence, it is a beautiful Mass. I’ve been fortunate enough not to witness some of these abuses that seem to occur out West the most frequently.

The problem I do have is when people show disrespect for the Pope and bishops calling them a bunch of liberals because they realized that there was a problem.

 

[Lee_M]

Typically, the hootenanny breaks out during the priest’s monologue at the beginning of Mass following the sign of the cross, the homily, and the “final announcements” just before the dismissal. Our pastor’s a real gas - he makes sure everyone’s entertained. He always remarks how much he’s “enjoyed our celebration”.

And you call this church conservative? You are terribly misrepresenting the Norvus Ordo Mass because the examples you use are not of a typical Mass. You’re area may be full of Clown Masses, but you do no service to Catholics around the world basing an opinion of the NO on your “personal” observations of Masses in your area.

 

[Jacafamala]

There are a lot of objections about the Mass in this and in the Liturgy and Sacrament section.

Last night as I was reading one of the many threads (I think it was about noise in Mass), it dawned on me that many of the people on this forum sound like they hate Mass and find very little good in it and suffer through it most of the time.

Or is that the point–Mass isn’t supposed to be something that we “like?”

After all, if Mass is only a “sacrifice,” I will never like it because to “like” a sacrifice is perverted. I will hate it because I hate seeing the Lord Jesus suffering and dying because of my sin.

Am I getting it now? Am I sounding less “Protestant?”

I really don’t like this at all and feel that if this is really what Catholicism is supposed to be, it’s pretty glum. But people on this forum tell me that Mass isn’t about “what I like” and I’m not supposed to be “entertained” at Mass, so perhaps I should try to “hate” Mass more and find it less pleasing.

You’re correct that the Mass is Calvary, but it’s also Holy Thursday and Easter Sunday. It’s all that rolled into one. Actually the Mass is beyond time.

I don’t hate the Mass, I love the Mass because the Mass is God’s Supreme act of love for us. Perservere in going to Mass and ask God to help you to grow in grace to obtain a better understanding.

The Mass is the most beautiful thing on earth!

 

[Jimsdun]

As I have said many times before, The mass is not entertainment. The title of this thread “Do you hate mass” should not have anything to do with how entertaining the mass is. That would be like comparing movies. Did you like this movie? etc. etc.

That being said, I will say one thing that has already been mentioned in this thread. The mass is a sacrifice, and unfortunately, a lot of people don’t know that.

When a mass becomes “flashy” to try to entice more people in the door, that becomes an exercise in banality, and we become no different than the Protestant megachurches who use gimmicks to get people in the door.

I have seen parishes that go out of their way to become more palatable to Protestants, as if they expect a lot of Protestants to wander in from outside.

My take on that is: If people want to go to a Protestant-like service, they can go to a Protestant church, and if Protestants are going to wander into a Catholic church, why should they expect the liturgy to be watered-down for them?

 

[Cat]

He was being “unkind” to nobody (that’s just reading something in to what he stated) and made a pertinent point.

These sort of personal, emotional responses always seem to come when somebody is pierced by logic and truth exactly where it hurts.

**I have been to plenty of parishes and plenty of NO masses where I KNOW a majority of the people do not realize what just went on, what they just participated in. ** Very sad, and very true.

Wait a minute…I am being told on this thread to not judge people by their outward appearance, that they may not be giving a physical indication of “loving Mass,” but that doesn’t mean that they hate Mass.

But you are saying that through outward appearances, you KNOW that people don’t realize what is going on in Mass?

How can this be?

---

And by the way, everyone, I am old enough to know that people are not necessarily joyless because they aren’t clapping and swaying and smiling. The opposite is also true–people can be doing cartwheels up the aisle in the church, but that doesn’t mean they are filled with joy. I 've seen plenty of people in Pentecostal churches who literally “hate” the teachings of God, but they put on an awfully good show in church.

When I say that people seem to hate the Mass, I’m talking about people who post things that seem to imply this. When people say such awful things about their Masses and post a litany of hateful complaints, am I to infer that they LOVE Mass?

You know, I have never yet met up with a real-life person who makes any of the complaints about Mass that the people on this forum make. Hmmm…

I know people who attend the TLM in our city exclusively, but I don’t hear them denigrate the OF Masses that are done at all the other parishes. And I know people who are extremely conservative and want to see more traditional practices restored (we have one parish which is OF Mass, but uses Latin, altar boys only, kneeling for Communion, etc., and a lot of these people go there), but I do NOT hear them ever criticize the other Masses.

So perhaps, as another poster on this thread said, it’s an online thing.

 

[Tietjen]

Am I getting it now? Am I sounding less “Protestant?”

Perhaps less Protestant but certainly not more Catholic. The Mass is HOLY. I doubt that one could explain to you what you’re supposed to feel. It’s one of those things that either you experience or you don’t. Either you recognize the beauty, the reverence and the holiness of the Mass and are drawn to be a witness to it or it is simply another religious service. Remember, when you’re at Mass, you’re in the presence of God. I don’t understand how anyone can’t be overjoyed to be there.

 

[ethelzguy]

Oh please…read Daupin’s posts on here. Hootenanny (said more than once I believe) …priest’s a gas, and on and on. I had asked for examples, I could have done without all the uncharitable remarks along with them.

So much for that thread you started the other day in the name of civil conversation, huh?

BSHoop,

Don’t let Paul’s posts get you down. They used to be a great source of annoyance to me, but I now find them amusing.

They perfectly underscore what so many of us find “intimidating, distatesful, threatening, etc.”, about tradtional Catholicism.

It isn’t the traditional Catholicism that we find unlikeable. It’s the self-righteous, arrogant attitudes of a group of fringe tradtionalists.

The Church is wrong, you are wrong, I am wrong, the priests and bishops are wrong, etc., ad nauseum. They call you names, me names, priests and bishops names, even the Popes.

Frankly I find many of them to be a rather ungrateful lot. Personally, I am grateful that I have Masses to attend, and that we have a priest to call our own. I am grateful for my Church and my faith.

Some choose to spend their time, analyzing documents, splitting hairs, and picking nits, all in an effort to “show” the Church or it’s clergymen that they are “wrong” in how our faith is passed on to us today.

Fortunately, they are in the minority.