Do you have to be a Republican to be Catholic?

[daisy_jones]

Can you please cite the Bible or Catechism sections that specifically mention gay marriage, legalizing drugs or animal rights? I understand what the CCC says about gay marriage, but only why we as Catholics cannot have a gay marriage, not why we have to impose it on non-Catholics as well.

I do know what the Bible says about homosexuality. However, it seems like if we want our religious freedom to be respected in terms of the HHS mandate and contraception issue, we should respect the religious freedom of others as well. Although gay marriage will never be valid within our Church, I don’t understand why we have the right to tell non-Catholic same-sex couples that they have to be play by our rules. What the state allows in terms of “marriage” (or civil union) doesn’t require US to recognize those same marriages, any more than we allow divorced couples to remarry without annulment. The state’s rules regarding marriage already are different from our rules about it. We didn’t change our religious views on divorce just because society loosened theirs; why is the gay marriage issue any more threatening?

This is the way I see it as well, although I will admit I have stopped receiving communion because this belief is not in line with the Church’s teaching. I did not want to stop receiving communion because I do not believe in my heart it alters my state of grace as I am not sinning, but it was suggested that I do so by someone close to me.

I am a firm believer in separation of church and state. To me, as long as no one is stepping on someone’s individual rights, why should they be forced to live with what I believe? In the case of abortion, someone’s life is being unjustly ended, so of course it should be illegal. In the case of consenting adults wanting to live their lives together in the eyes of the law, I do not see a problem with that as it is not taking away any of my rights.

 

[fix]

Can you please cite the Bible or Catechism sections that specifically mention gay marriage, legalizing drugs or animal rights? I understand what the CCC says about gay marriage, but only why we as Catholics cannot have a gay marriage, not why we have to impose it on non-Catholics as well.

Well there is this:

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.

I do know what the Bible says about homosexuality. However, it seems like if we want our religious freedom to be respected in terms of the HHS mandate and contraception issue, we should respect the religious freedom of others as well. Although gay marriage will never be valid within our Church, I don’t understand why we have the right to tell non-Catholic same-sex couples that they have to be play by our rules. What the state allows in terms of “marriage” (or civil union) doesn’t require US to recognize those same marriages, any more than we allow divorced couples to remarry without annulment. The state’s rules regarding marriage already are different from our rules about it. We didn’t change our religious views on divorce just because society loosened theirs; why is the gay marriage issue any more threatening?

Marriage is a natural institution. It is not about imposing the Catholic form of marriage on anyone.

 

[daisy_jones]

Gay Marriage is harmful to the parties involved, It perverts the concept of Justice by giving the blessing of civil law upon it. It damages the souls of those who participate.

No one who supports gay marriage can ever say that they love and care for their homosexual neighbors or seeks for their true happiness.

I think Catholics use ‘love’ way too nonchalantly. We turn our eyes away from so much evil in this world on a daily basis but are always *very *concerned about showing ‘love’ by opposing the major issues like gay marriage.

Some of the most mean-spirited and uncompassionate people I know call themselves “devout” Catholics, but only show this so-called ‘love’ by looking down on everyone who does not believe exactly as they do. I have been deeply disturbed at some of the things I have heard from these people (CAF not excluded). I am sorry, but I do not think a lot of practicing Catholics know what love means.

 

[fix]

I think Catholics use ‘love’ way too nonchalantly. We turn our eyes away from so much evil in this world on a daily basis but are always *very *concerned about showing ‘love’ by opposing the major issues like gay marriage.

Love never condones sin.

Some of the most mean-spirited and uncompassionate people I know call themselves “devout” Catholics, but only show this so-called ‘love’ by looking down on everyone who does not believe exactly as they do. I have been deeply disturbed at some of the things I have heard from these people (CAF not excluded). I am sorry, but I do not think a lot of practicing Catholics know what love means.

I am deeply disturbed by moral relativism. Not only does such an ideology lack authentic love, it is contrary to the Gospel.

 

[daisy_jones]

Love never condones sin.

I am deeply disturbed by moral relativism. Not only does such an ideology lack authentic love, it is contrary to the Gospel.

You can be disturbed by one’s rationale for the way a society should view moralilty, but I am more concerned by Catholics cherry-picking the evils they fight against.

 

[Shyne88]

So sad that Catholics will find any excuse to go against Natural Law to vote Democrat.

It seriously pains me to read these excuses. I’m sorry but I am not going to present this in a loving way because I’m on my last straw of agitation right now. I need to pray for forgiveness after this.

“I’ve never seen any Republican try to stop abortion and after all the years of their presidency its still not illegal”

This is pure ignorance, not only of the political system but how the Judicial Branch legislates. The logic here is that you are going to support a holocaust because you don’t see any coalition from the other branch of the government trying to stop it. NEVER VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO SUPPORTS KILLING 53 MILLION UNBORN AND COUNTING.

It is the equivalent of saying “Well I don’t like Stalin gunning down and gassing his own people, but noone’s trying to stop him so I guess I’ll vote to keep gunning down and gassing our own people because I like his economic policies”

You all don’t realize that these are people, ideas created by God that we are slaughtering and you’re excuse to vote for someone who is for this is because the Republicans can’t mobilize. THEN DONT VOTE REPUBLICAN, VOTE ANYONE WHO IS NOT PRO ABORTION… ANYONE.

Unbelievable, I cannot believe that no one is taking a stand against this, I’m tired of this political correctness of “I don’t want to offend others or tell them how to live their life”. So are you in essence saying that God can’t tell people how to live their lives? You are the body of Jesus Christ and you’re job as a Catholic is to evangelize and lead people away from sin. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT ABOUT THIS CONCEPT? Homosexuality is a sin, Abusing Drugs is a sin, Abortion is a grave sin… Among other things, Liberals want to stop prayer before government meetings (separation from God, not sure if its a sin but its definately a strike against Charity and a relationship with our almighty creator). This is unbelievable…

I’m seriously appalled and shocked right now.

Mary please pray for us.

 

[fix]

You can be disturbed by one’s rationale for the way a society should view moralilty, but I am more concerned by Catholics cherry-picking the evils they fight against.

I do not see any cherry picking here. I do see relativism which is a grave evil.

 

[manualman]

You can be disturbed by one’s rationale for the way a society should view moralilty, but I am more concerned by Catholics cherry-picking the evils they fight against.

You misdiagnose triage for apathy. When a policeman notices an event of bullying and a rape going on at the same time, you don’t criticize the cop for taking down the rapist first.

If ALL serious catholics made ending abortion their first priority, then nobody pro-choice would be electable, both parties would VERY quickly go pro-life in platform and we could direct our attentions to the bullies.

Instead we cancel each other out in our votes, have little to no effect politically and the much smaller special interests control the political agenda in America. Nice work.

 

[daisy_jones]

You misdiagnose triage for apathy. When a policeman notices an event of bullying and a rape going on at the same time, you don’t criticize the cop for taking down the rapist first.

If ALL serious catholics made ending abortion their first priority, then nobody pro-choice would be electable, both parties would VERY quickly go pro-life in platform and we could direct our attentions to the bullies.

Instead we cancel each other out in our votes, have little to no effect politically and the much smaller special interests control the political agenda in America. Nice work.

I am sorry if I was unclear, but I was referring to homosexuality, not abortion. I believe ending abortion should be a top priority. I have never voted for a pro-choice candidate and I never will. Abortion is completely unjust.

But when I see Catholics fighting homosexuality with everything they have and paying little to no attention to something like human trafficking, it really upsets me.

 

[fix]

I am sorry if I was unclear, but I was referring to homosexuality, not abortion. I believe ending abortion should be a top priority. I have never voted for a pro-choice candidate and I never will. Abortion is completely unjust.

But when I see Catholics fighting homosexuality with everything they have and paying little to no attention to something like human trafficking, it really upsets me.

In the USA I have not seen anyone promoting human trafficking. I often see people promoting homsexual marriage and much more.

 

[daisy_jones]

I do not see any cherry picking here. I do see relativism which is a grave evil.

Well, we will have to disagree on this, then. Have a good day! (And I say that sincerely )

 

[daisy_jones]

In the USA I have not seen anyone promoting human trafficking. I often see people promoting homsexual marriage and much more.

I never said anything about promoting it, although it is promoted in disguise - I said we need to fight it. It is alive and well in the US. Just because it is not a front page headline does not mean we should ignore it.

This is what I mean. Catholics will fight homosexuality until they are blue in the face but not other evils, my example being human trafficking. We have as much responsibility to fight other problems in this world - but we don’t! Why - I don’t know - maybe because other causes would require much more work and effort than calling a representative’s office to tell them how we feel…

 

[fix]

I never said anything about promoting it, although it is promoted in disguise - I said we need to fight it. It is alive and well in the US. Just because it is not a front page headline does not mean we should ignore it.

This is what I mean. Catholics will fight homosexuality until they are blue in the face but not other evils, my example being human trafficking. We have as much responsibility to fight other problems in this world - but we don’t! Why - I don’t know - maybe because other causes would require much more work and effort than calling a representative’s office to tell them how we feel…

Maybe it’s because human trafficking is not as common here and is not seen as a threat to our culture because no one is claiming it is a civil right or should be legal.

BTW, Catholics can and do fight both things.

 

[daisy_jones]

Maybe it’s because human trafficking is not as common here and is not seen as a threat to our culture because no one is claiming it is a civil right or should be legal.

BTW, Catholics can and do fight both things.

So the only evils that should be fought are those that are a threat to our culture???

And btw - human trafficking is more common here than you think. I am sure that some Catholics fight it - but it It should be fought with as much vigor as any other cause!

 

[fix]

So the only evils that should be fought are those that are a threat to our culture???

And btw - human trafficking is more common here than you think. I am sure that some Catholics fight it - but it It should be fought with as much vigor as any other cause!

It is a little silly to place these things at odds with each other.

My point is things like “gay marriage” are not trivial and have a tremendous impact on our culture. There is a culture war and souls matter.

 

[daisy_jones]

It is a little silly to place these things at odds with each other.

My point is things like “gay marriage” are not trivial and have a tremendous impact on our culture. There is a culture war and souls matter.

I would hardly call it silly, but I guess this is another thing on which we will not agree, so there is no point in continuing the conversation.

 

[Leontes]

I suppose it depends by what you mean with respects to “exists.”

If by “divorce exists” you mean “there are individuals who claim to be divorced,” then yes, “divorce exists.”

If, on the other hand, you mean “it is possible to dissolve the marital bond,” then no, it does not exist. Because no such thing is possible.

Divorce is an ontological error. It is a metaphysical impossibility. Marriages are by nature incapable of dissolution by anything short of the death of a partner. (Even annulment is not dissolution of marriage, simply the recognition that there was no marriage in the first place). You can go to the courthouse and get a slip of paper saying you’re “divorced” and move out and never speak to one another again but the marital bond is, by definition, lifelong. If it isn’t, it was never a marriage in the first place.

That is nonsensical. People dissolve the marital bond every day. The Catholic Church participates in that, by calling divorce “annulment”. Doesn’t matter what label you put on it.

 

[Befink]

Daisy, to your point. *I wonder why the Catholic church is always in the news fighting the conservative battles we believe in and seems quiet on more liberal ones that fit our values. *Perfect example of a cause we should be more involved in is the 1% vs. the 99%. *The occupy movements have not been focused in their goals but the frustrations they express are valid and are critical to the future of our society. *The Church is great at charity. *They know what’s driving the plight of the 99%. *Helping the poor is critical to our beliefs. *Not to mention that public support for the cause is overwhelming. *The Church could easily give the cause the focus it needs yet they don’t really take it up. *Instead they become known only for abortion and contraception. *Not saying we should back down on those but imagine the successes we could have if we fought battles on both sides of the isle, particularly winnable ones. *Imagine how much better our image would be for taking a central role in improving the lives of the poor? *We would get better results on abortion and contraception because 1) people will listen to us more, 2) the quality of society, the real driver of those problems, would be better.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Although I don’t know hazmat, I’m inclined to agree. I think that the Republicans know that millions of people vote for them solely because of the abortion issue, and if abortion is overturned, then they are no longer guaranteed all those votes. Keeping that ability to say they’re “pro-life” is a very powerful bargaining chip, and I think the reason they haven’t tried hard to overturn Roe v. Wade yet is because they don’t want to give up those votes.

However I do have to also say that this tangent kind of ties into my whole point: abortion is truly a very important issue, but it bothers me that it seems to be all we talk about as Catholics.** There have to be other issues that we stand for, too**.

Ok, how about euthanasia, contraception, gay “marriage”, pornography, etc. IMO, the difference between the two parties is one won’t do much to forward pro-life issues, and the other will do all it can to further anti-life issues. There just has to be a change on social issues for Democrats, and probably 90% of Catholics would vote Democrat.

 

[ProVobis]

There are pro-life democrats.

democratsforlife.org

We should not give up on them.

Indeed. One of these days they might finally get elected again.

They were called, I believe, “bluedog Democrats” in the last Congress but most of them lost their re-election bids. My theory is that pro-life organizations gave up on them.