Do you have to be a Republican to be Catholic?

[TheRealJuliane]

Daisy, to your point. *I wonder why the Catholic church is always in the news fighting the conservative battles we believe in and seems quiet on more liberal ones that fit our values. *Perfect example of a cause we should be more involved in is the 1% vs. the 99%. *The occupy movements have not been focused in their goals but the frustrations they express are valid and are critical to the future of our society. *The Church is great at charity. *They know what’s driving the plight of the 99%. *Helping the poor is critical to our beliefs. *Not to mention that public support for the cause is overwhelming. *The Church could easily give the cause the focus it needs yet they don’t really take it up. *Instead they become known only for abortion and contraception. *Not saying we should back down on those but imagine the successes we could have if we fought battles on both sides of the isle, particularly winnable ones. *Imagine how much better our image would be for taking a central role in improving the lives of the poor? *We would get better results on abortion and contraception because 1) people will listen to us more, 2) the quality of society, the real driver of those problems, would be better.

You say “imagine how much better our image would be for taking a central role in improving the lives of the poor,” AS IF THAT IS NOT WHAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING. I challenge you to find out what the Church you are joining already does for the poor. Believe me, the Catholic Church already does an incredible job helping the poor.

And BTW, the “Occupy” movement was a mess because the people involved are a mess. Their goals are more anarchist/communist than anything to do with helping to raise the standard of society. They want what others have, without working for it. They are anti-capitalist, and guess what? Envy is a sin.

 

[3xblessed]

You say “imagine how much better our image would be for taking a central role in improving the lives of the poor,” AS IF THAT IS NOT WHAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING. I challenge you to find out what the Church you are joining already does for the poor. Believe me, the Catholic Church already does an incredible job helping the poor.

And BTW, the “Occupy” movement was a mess because the people involved are a mess. Their goals are more anarchist/communist than anything to do with helping to raise the standard of society. They want what others have, without working for it. They are anti-capitalist, and guess what? Envy is a sin.

My church doesn’t do very much to help the poor, actually. We just built a new parish hall so we’re always raising extra money for that, but we stopped collecting money for Catholic Relief Services. But that’s a different story, I’m just disappointed with it. I care a whole lot more about helping the poor than I do about a new parish hall, but I think I’m alone in that in my parish. We do have periodic food drives but they’re actually organized by a Baptist church in town, we can’t even do our own.

As for what you said about the “Occupy” movement, although I am not a fan and think they have a terrible image in the media, I do not for a minute believe that anyone who sees serious problems with capitalism is just envious. My husband and I are making less in REAL dollars, not just adjusted for inflation, but actual dollars, than we were 10 years ago, but in that time we both completed bachelors degrees. Thinking that we should be doing better than we were 10 years ago is not envy but feeling that the deck has been decisively stacked against people like us. Every income statistic chart I’ve seen shows that the lower classes have consistently gotten poorer while the 1 percent has experienced astronomical income growth. Not thinking that is unfair is not envy.

To me personally, the fact that the top 1 percent is taking more of their fair share is an issue I think we should be concerned about as Catholics. I often feel very conflicted about voting because I want a pro-life candidate but I strongly disagree with the Republicans on every single other issue. Judging from most of the responses I’m reading here, I’m thinking maybe I just made a very serious and regrettable decision by converting to Catholicism.

 

[FaithBuild18]

My church doesn’t do very much to help the poor, actually. We just built a new parish hall so we’re always raising extra money for that, but we stopped collecting money for Catholic Relief Services. But that’s a different story, I’m just disappointed with it. I care a whole lot more about helping the poor than I do about a new parish hall, but I think I’m alone in that in my parish. We do have periodic food drives but they’re actually organized by a Baptist church in town, we can’t even do our own.

As for what you said about the “Occupy” movement, although I am not a fan and think they have a terrible image in the media, I do not for a minute believe that anyone who sees serious problems with capitalism is just envious. My husband and I are making less in REAL dollars, not just adjusted for inflation, but actual dollars, than we were 10 years ago, but in that time we both completed bachelors degrees. Thinking that we should be doing better than we were 10 years ago is not envy but feeling that the deck has been decisively stacked against people like us. Every income statistic chart I’ve seen shows that the lower classes have consistently gotten poorer while the 1 percent has experienced astronomical income growth. Not thinking that is unfair is not envy.

To me personally, the fact that the top 1 percent is taking more of their fair share is an issue I think we should be concerned about as Catholics. I often feel very conflicted about voting because I want a pro-life candidate but I strongly disagree with the Republicans on every single other issue. Judging from most of the responses I’m reading here, I’m thinking maybe I just made a very serious and regrettable decision by converting to Catholicism.

There’s plenty that you can do to help the poor, and I encourage you and everyone to do so. Even if your parish doesn’t do much, I promise you that there are other organizations not far from you that do. You can easily get involved.

“Thinking that we should be doing better than we were 10 years ago is not envy but feeling that the deck has been decisively stacked against people like us”

“To me personally, the fact that the top 1 percent is taking more of their fair share is an issue I think we should be concerned about as Catholics”

I’m sorry, but contrary to your intentions these statements reek of envy. To imply that human beings are inherently entitled to an equal monetary “share” is preposterous. Arguing the point because you feel like you are entitled to more than what you currently have is the essence of envy. Feeling rage because others have more than you, that is envy. The movement is motivated… purely… by envy. There are absolutely reasons for which one could oppose capitalism that do not include envy, but what you’ve listed here, and what the occupy movement represents, is absolutely nothing but envy.

 

[sw85]

That is nonsensical. People dissolve the marital bond every day. The Catholic Church participates in that, by calling divorce “annulment”. Doesn’t matter what label you put on it.

Annulment is the recognition that there was no marriage in the first place.

People do not, in fact, dissolve the marital bond. They get meaningless slips of paper with the word “divorce” written on them, they abandon their spouse, they fail in their duties, and they commit adultery. The marital bond is still there, by definition. It persists until death. Otherwise it was never a marriage.

 

[3xblessed]

I’m sorry, but contrary to your intentions these statements reek of envy. To imply that human beings are inherently entitled to an equal monetary “share” is preposterous. Arguing the point because you feel like you are entitled to more than what you currently have is the essence of envy. Feeling rage because others have more than you, that is envy. The movement is motivated… purely… by envy. There are absolutely reasons for which one could oppose capitalism that do not include envy, but what you’ve listed here, and what the occupy movement represents, is absolutely nothing but envy.

Why? When 30 years ago my parents could support their family modestly on one income and no college education, now we cannot do the same with two adults working full-time with college educations. We don’t even have health insurance, which I do feel is a basic human right, not a luxury only for those who can afford it. I do not, and will not, believe that it’s envy to think that the middle class should be able to support themselves with one full-time earner. It was possible and commonplace for them to do so when the average CEO income wasn’t hundreds of times higher than the average worker, and before our laws permitted all the outsourcing. I don’t see how you cannot see the CEO level of income as pure greed. I mean, even the Pope has come out in favor of the goals of the Occupy movement. EVEN. THE. POPE.

 

[Befink]

The same Pope expressed through the CCC serious concerns about both communism and capitalism. *Communism is irrelevant because it’s not actually happening here, contrary to what conservative media likes to scare people into thinking. *Capitalism is a concern because it tends to exploit the poor and leave them behind. *The poor aren’t just those we see on street corners. *They are most average people working hard, often with no health insurance who have done everything right and still can’t get to a comfortable non-excessive financial position. *They are probably most of us. *I’m quite certain the Pope had the U.S. in mind when he revised the CCC.

The charity the Church does is fantastic! *Why aren’t we known for it!? *When the average person thinks of the Catholics church it’s conservative issues, judgmental attitude, and sex-abuse scandals. *More than a few people would say society would be better off without us. *I find myself defending the church constantly: “our views are actually pretty moderate”, “most Catholics are not that judgmental, we’re pretty normal people”, “we do a huge amount of charity”, “no, actually our beliefs are compatible with science”, “no we’re not a bunch of child molesters, in fact we’re more angry about that than anyone”. *I wish I was exaggerating more than I am.

We should be well known for who we are, or strive to be: charity, joyful lives though our faith, love of God neighbor & self, well-formed conscience, political views which transcend political parties but always grounded on strong morality, and obviously no more sex-abuse scandals.

I should have clarified that tying into the occupy movement isn’t the idea. *It’s simply being an advocate for the poor. *The occupy movement illustrates that there is a public need and a concern by the majority that we can address, independent of that movement.

Back to the OP question. *The real reason I know you don’t have to be republican to be Catholic is that my priest and RCIA teachers are well aware of my struggles, questions, disagreements with Church teachings. *They know (or can figure out) that I voted for Obama in 2008 and will do so again later this year. *Despite that, the archbishop of San Francisco, George Niederauer, declared last Sunday that I have been chosen to the faith by Christ himself. *I’m therefore to be baptized, confirmed and given first communion despite any shortcomings I may have. *I’m quite certain that Archbishop Niederauer would do the same for others on their faith journey whether they are democrat, republican, communist, voting for Mickey Mouse, etc. *The Church makes no distinction of “real Catholic” and “not a real Catholic” despite what some conservatives say. *Receiving the sacraments is as real as it gets!

 

[kch86]

I am not intending to fight with anyone here. I am just wondering if there is room here, both on this site and within the Catholic faith, for more liberal views, or if you believe it’s true that you have to be a conservative Republican to be Catholic.

I’m assuming by conservative Republican you mean someone who is against abortion and supports the Church on social issues, and is for low taxation, small government etc.

In that case, no, a Catholic does not have to be a Republican. A Catholic is required to oppose abortion and support the Church’s stance on other moral questions. However, a Catholic is not required to believe in Republican-style capitalism.

In practice, however, moral issues take precedence over opinions of economic governance and so a faithful Catholic will typically vote Republican even if he does not identify as such and disagrees with the Republican Party on economic issues.

Catholicism tends to be fairly critical of some aspects of capitalism, so you will get a lot of faithful Catholics in this situation, where they only vote Republican because of moral issues. However, belief in small government and low taxation isn’t against the Catholic faith either, so you will get plenty of faithful Catholics supporting aspects of the Republican ideology wholeheartedly too.

Ideally, however, we shouldn’t really identify with political parties at all. We’re Catholic first and that’s where our loyalty should lie - not in a particular political ideology. And so we should vote for whichever party supports the Church teaching on the most essential issues.

 

[lutherlic]

I’m right there with you nowadays. I grew up in a rather grumpy, libertarianish environment, so we never entirely fit in with the Republicans anyway, but I became more left-leaning economically the more I read of our social teaching…

Both parties fit our social justice teaching well in some ways and poor in others. I do not think either has an advantage.

It is very important to note that the Democrats often use the words “social justice” but that is not the same as Catholic social teaching. Don’t be misled. It is very important to note that we are very opposed to socialism (see my piece) and that we place a lot of importance on subsidiarity (i.e. smaller, more local government as much as possible).

 

[Birdpreacher]

 

[JackQ]

Sorry for this being my first post, I’ve been lurking here for a couple years though (as you’ll notice by the date my account was created.)

One thing I’ve grown concerned about in the past couple years is that it seems like you now have to be an extremely conservative Republican if you’re Catholic. I understand the abortion issue, but I’ve noticed that in these forums in particular there’s not a lot of support for any forms of politics that could be considered “liberal.” I grew up in a very blue-collar Catholic family with very liberal views, in a liberal community.

By “liberal” I should explain: premarital sex, abortion and divorce aren’t ok, but the hallmarks of the faith I grew up with were all about social justice issues of caring for the poor, being against all aspects of the culture of death including death penalty and war, etc. It feels to me like the Catholic culture in this country has taken a hard right from what it was 30 years ago.

I am pro-life, which makes voting sometimes difficult because I believe my faith calls me to be anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro-caring for the poor, pro-caring for the earth, etc. and the pro-life party also seems to be the most pro-war and anti-welfare. I don’t understand why being Catholic has to mean that we agree with all of the Republican platform about climate change, taxes, war, welfare, etc., especially when their stances on those issues often seems opposed to what I read in the Catechism.

I am not intending to fight with anyone here. I am just wondering if there is room here, both on this site and within the Catholic faith, for more liberal views, or if you believe it’s true that you have to be a conservative Republican to be Catholic.

Some think that is true, apparently, but if it was a requirement to participate here I would have been thrown off some time ago. Believe it or not, I sometimes see the contrary claim being made, that the true Christian vote is for the Democrats (not here, but elsewhere). Politics is only a subset of life, while our Catholic faith ought to determine all of it. I frankly think it’s a little sacrilegious to claim the authority of God for your political party, and someone who says that you are in defiance of your faith because of your political positions is someone who has probably run out of reasonable arguments.

 

[JackQ]

honestly, who you vote for wont really change anything about laws regarding abortion. how many years under a prolife president have we had since roe v wade, and what has changed? nothing really. theres not much you can do. theyd basically have to amend the constitution, and that isnt going to happen just to stop abortion.

And even if for some reason we manage to get a majority on the Supreme Court to overturn Roe -v- Wade, abortion will still be legal in California and many other states. So you’re right, a constitutional amendment would be necessary to make it illegal throughout the United States. The Gospel and the Rosary will prove to be more effective weapons against abortion in the long run, I believe (though I certainly support making abortion illegal).

On the other hand, if our nation continues to drain its treasury on these needless foreign wars, while at the same time failing to pay for same through raising taxes, then I’m afraid that the U.S. position on abortion will ultimately become irrelevant, inasmuch as our society will collapse–just as Osama bin Laden planned.

Dang, we’re stupid!

 

[JackQ]

Ok, how about euthanasia, contraception, gay “marriage”, pornography, etc. IMO, the difference between the two parties is one won’t do much to forward pro-life issues, and the other will do all it can to further anti-life issues. There just has to be a change on social issues for Democrats, and probably 90% of Catholics would vote Democrat.

But those social issues are becoming defining for the Democratic Party. I think that the only effective political strategy for Catholics, if we got serious, would be to form our own voting bloc. Those candidates who supported the Catholic position on everything would get our votes. Those who did not, would not. Unfortunately, there are too many Catholics willing to compromise on one issue or the other, and others who don’t even agree with the Church on everything themselves.

 

[Leontes]

Annulment is the recognition that there was no marriage in the first place.

People do not, in fact, dissolve the marital bond. They get meaningless slips of paper with the word “divorce” written on them, they abandon their spouse, they fail in their duties, and they commit adultery. The marital bond is still there, by definition. It persists until death. Otherwise it was never a marriage.

Marriage has existed long before the Catholic Church came up with its “definition”. Your statement is hubris.

A more correct statement would be, that in Catholic doctrine, divorce does not exist. But annulment does exist.

 

[lutherlic]

Marriage has existed long before the Catholic Church came up with its “definition”. Your statement is hubris.

A more correct statement would be, that in Catholic doctrine, divorce does not exist. But annulment does exist.

The comment that you quoted is correct, not “hubris”. Your correction is not “more correct”, just another way of saying the same thing.

For Catholics, we know our doctrine is the truth of God. Catholic doctrine = God’s doctrine = truth.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

But those social issues are becoming defining for the Democratic Party.** I think that the only effective political strategy for Catholics, if we got serious, would be to form our own voting bloc**. Those candidates who supported the Catholic position on everything would get our votes. Those who did not, would not. Unfortunately, there are too many Catholics willing to compromise on one issue or the other, and others who don’t even agree with the Church on everything themselves.

Your right. Isn’t that what happened in Prussia?

 

[Carlan]

The same Pope expressed through the CCC serious concerns about both communism and capitalism. *Communism is irrelevant because it’s not actually happening here, contrary to what conservative media likes to scare people into thinking. *Capitalism is a concern because it tends to exploit the poor and leave them behind. *The poor aren’t just those we see on street corners. *They are most average people working hard, often with no health insurance who have done everything right and still can’t get to a comfortable non-excessive financial position. *They are probably most of us. *I’m quite certain the Pope had the U.S. in mind when he revised the CCC.

The charity the Church does is fantastic! *Why aren’t we known for it!? *When the average person thinks of the Catholics church it’s conservative issues, judgmental attitude, and sex-abuse scandals. *More than a few people would say society would be better off without us. *I find myself defending the church constantly: “our views are actually pretty moderate”, “most Catholics are not that judgmental, we’re pretty normal people”, “we do a huge amount of charity”, “no, actually our beliefs are compatible with science”, “no we’re not a bunch of child molesters, in fact we’re more angry about that than anyone”. *I wish I was exaggerating more than I am.

We should be well known for who we are, or strive to be: charity, joyful lives though our faith, love of God neighbor & self, well-formed conscience, political views which transcend political parties but always grounded on strong morality, and obviously no more sex-abuse scandals.

I should have clarified that tying into the occupy movement isn’t the idea. *It’s simply being an advocate for the poor. *The occupy movement illustrates that there is a public need and a concern by the majority that we can address, independent of that movement.

Back to the OP question. *The real reason I know you don’t have to be republican to be Catholic is that my priest and RCIA teachers are well aware of my struggles, questions, disagreements with Church teachings. *They know (or can figure out) that I voted for Obama in 2008 and will do so again later this year. *Despite that, the archbishop of San Francisco, George Niederauer, declared last Sunday that I have been chosen to the faith by Christ himself. *I’m therefore to be baptized, confirmed and given first communion despite any shortcomings I may have. *I’m quite certain that Archbishop Niederauer would do the same for others on their faith journey whether they are democrat, republican, communist, voting for Mickey Mouse, etc. *The Church makes no distinction of “real Catholic” and “not a real Catholic” despite what some conservatives say. *Receiving the sacraments is as real as it gets!

Thank you , well said.
peace, Carlan

 

[kch86]

*Communism is irrelevant because it’s not actually happening here, contrary to what conservative media likes to scare people into thinking. *Capitalism is a concern because it tends to exploit the poor and leave them behind. *The poor aren’t just those we see on street corners. *They are most average people working hard, often with no health insurance who have done everything right and still can’t get to a comfortable non-excessive financial position.

You make good points but I was distracted by your frequent use of the asterisk (*). I keep on expecting a footnote and a disclaimer for each one of your sentences.

I understand your concern with capitalism, which is an economic system that is the outgrowth of the very same liberal, materialistic Enlightenment thought as communism, but in the current social and political climate of the West, where morality and culture are being actively torn down and destroyed by our own governments, economic issues have become secondary concern to the ever-progressing Culture of Death.

Doing what little we can to resist it is so important that in the choice between a pro-abortion liberal and a pro-life communist revolutionary, I think the Catholic would be more than justified in casting his vote for the communist.

 

[FaithBuild18]

Furthermore, if the pro-life candidate did nothing to INCREASE or DECREASE the accessibility of abortion, I’d still vote for him over some guy that would surely INCREASE the accessibility of abortion. That’s why I would even vote for somebody like Ron Paul over Obama.

 

[ethereality]

No, you don’t have to be a member of the “Republican Party”. But I don’t see how it’s possible to be a consistent member of the “Democrat Party”: You must either disagree with nearly everything they say, or else what the Church says.

The so-called “Democratic Party” is quickly turning into the Anti-Christ Party, as Obama demonstrates, both from the support they give him and as their apparent leader: note how they’re not putting up a candidate to replace him, and how quick they are to support everything he does (as far as I can tell).

Yes, OP, we are called to care for the poor: we, not our government. It is our job to give our time, talent, and treasure to them – it is not the government’s job to take our money etc. from us and decide what’s best for both us and them. So even regarding welfare the “Democrat Party” is anti-Christ: They are anti-personal responsibility, anti-subsidiarity (which the Catholic Church supports in the Catechism; subsidiarity means that the smallest, most local capable body ought to be sovereign), anti-opportunity for us to demonstrate our faith through our works, and so on.

Regarding war? I wouldn’t say members of the “Republican Party” are in favor of it; they just don’t see any other viable solution. You don’t have to call yourself “a Democrat” to be anti-war, though.

In short, if the “Democrat Party” is not actively promoting anti-Christ agenda, e.g. against religion and human sexuality, then their policies seem to always preclude Christian behavior, e.g. caring for the poor. I’m not saying you have to be a registered member of the opposite party; I’m just saying I don’t see how you can be a registered member of that party …

 

[ethereality]

That’s why I would even vote for somebody like Ron Paul over Obama.

Ron Paul happens to be the best candidate against Obama, just by the way. So do vote for him!