Do you hold hands during the Our Father?

[Veronica_Anne]

crobynb:

I would like to add onto my earlier response: If we are informed that hand holding is not correct or is directly against GIRM and/or our Bishop’s instructions - I would cease to participate in this as my responsibility to uphold the Church’s teachings.

Sigh. I brought this up with the priest who told me that if everyone else is diong it that I am to do it, too. And that, besides, “it doesn’t say NOT to hold hands.”

Sigh. Standing on our heads is not part of the GIRM, either. I’m just waiting for someone to start it.

Folks in all the local parishes hold hands… all of them! Except me. The priest even holds hands with the people on each side of him who who surround the altar at that point of the Mass.

Holding hands is something I do only with my husband. Period.

Besides, the Lord’s prayer is a vertical prayer… not a horizontal one.

Anybody remember that song “Kumbaya?”

Also… if you ever see the Mass celebrated at the Vatican on TV, you’ll see that NOBODY is holding hands! I take that as my example to follow. So, I don’t.

 

[Mom_of_5]

My husband and I attended Mass every day for two weeks on our tour of Italy. We attended several Masses at St. Peter’s, and yes, there was hand holding, not only at St. Peter’s but every church and Cathedral we attended.

Love and peace
Mom

 

[Angels_Watchin]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Actually, it is up to the Bishop according to the GIRM…
“But it is up to the Conference of Bishops to adapt the gestures and posture in the Order of the Mass to the customs and reasonable traditions of the people according to the norm of law.”

What it comes down to is checking what each Bishop has to say.

The customs and traditions were to NOT hold hands, that’s been the ‘custom and tradition’ since before the Council of Trent.

But now, anthing goes, especially protestant practices.

God help us
Angel

 

[Angels_Watchin]

Mom of 5:

My husband and I attended Mass every day for two weeks on our tour of Italy. We attended several Masses at St. Peter’s, and yes, there was hand holding, not only at St. Peter’s but every church and Cathedral we attended.

Love and peace
Mom

That doesn’t make it right, or even acceptable.
Why is everyone trying to ‘walk around’ the laws of the church.

You all sound like high school kids, trying to gain your ‘independance’ from mom and dad.

“But mom, you didn’t say I couldn’t go to THAT bar with THAT 28 year old guy!!”

“But dad, you didn’t say I couldn’t drive your volkswagon bug offroad in the mountains!!”

Stop PROTESTING against the simple instructions of the Magisterium of the Church. Just do what you’re told. In humility and obedience.

God help us,
Angel

 

[netmilsmom]

Angels Watchin:

The customs and traditions were to NOT hold hands, that’s been the ‘custom and tradition’ since before the Council of Trent.

But now, anthing goes, especially protestant practices.

God help us
Angel

Oh you’ve got that right.
Some of the Bishops are in their own religion. Thank God the Smackdown from B16 is starting already.

 

[netmilsmom]

Angels Watchin:

That doesn’t make it right, or even acceptable.
Why is everyone trying to ‘walk around’ the laws of the church.

You all sound like high school kids, trying to gain your ‘independance’ from mom and dad.

“But mom, you didn’t say I couldn’t go to THAT bar with THAT 28 year old guy!!”

“But dad, you didn’t say I couldn’t drive your volkswagon bug offroad in the mountains!!”

Stop PROTESTING against the simple instructions of the Magisterium of the Church. Just do what you’re told. In humility and obedience.

God help us,
Angel

I like the way you put that!

If a person goes on a tour of Italy and every mass attended has handholding (as a general rule, not just family members or friends) I suspect it was a Charismatic tour.

 

[Angels_Watchin]

Mom of 5:

Do you read “The Rock”? It is in there. “Show of Hands”…by Tim Ryland. The vatican has NOT said no to holding hands during the Lords Prayer, though it is not encouraged. How many of you stand while the entire congregation recieves communion and only sit when the last person has recieved communion? This is done in a church we have attended several times in another diocese in our state. We questioned this practice and were told the Bishop has made this decision, NOT the pope. Is this Bishop acting incorrectly or is our Bishop wrong in not directing us to stand during communion? Is this in the GIRM or did they leave it out because there are too many other things to put in?

Love and peace
Mom

There are some things within the GIRM that ARE up to the bishop and some he CANNOT alter in any way. They are listed specifically at the USCCB website.

One other point that some may not be aware of.
You said “the bishop has made this decision, not the pope”. It’s never obligatory if it’s just the Pope. It IS obligatory if it’s 'the Magisterium in union with the Pope", or the “Sacred Congregations in union with the Pope”. And the document must be promulgated.

Those are the only things that can be called ‘teaching of the church’. The Catechism is included in this list.

God help us,

Angel

 

[netmilsmom]

Mom of 5:

How many of you stand while the entire congregation recieves communion and only sit when the last person has recieved communion? This is done in a church we have attended several times in another diocese in our state. We questioned this practice and were told the Bishop has made this decision, NOT the pope. Is this Bishop acting incorrectly or is our Bishop wrong in not directing us to stand during communion? Is this in the GIRM or did they leave it out because there are too many other things to put in?

The “the Diocese says so…” is an easy out for a Liturgical director, a priest or a DRE. My suggestion would be to call your Diocese and see what the correct posture is at this time.

IMHO, You should be kneeling until the priest returns to his chair and then stands to continue the Holy Mass.

 

[Deus_Vult]

This question has come up before…and many seem to dislike this practice…as well as the people who do not like to shake hands (the sign of peace)…WHAT’S UP WITH YOU ALL??? We are a Catholic community we should all love and respect one another and want each others company. To many of us go to Mass as a obligation only…and do not even talk to others in our community. This is a sad thing…and if anyone thinks its a Protestant thing to do and thats why they think its a bad thing you are :whacky: as well. I am definitely not one to stick up for Protestants but holding hands is a universal gesture of togetherness not a religious practice. My parish dosent even practice this but I would welcome it if we did.

The Our Father prepares us to come with open foregiven hearts to the Lord’s table in Holy Communion. The Our Father is directed to God; it is a community prayer to God…we say it together because we are the Body of Christ…how could holding hands during this prayer take away from God??? It should if anything strenthgen the Body of Christ…and I would think please God…just my two cents.

 

[pnewton]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

IMHO, You should be kneeling until the priest returns to his chair and then stands to continue the Holy Mass.

I had heard that kneeling after communion is not required, although it seems almost everyone does it. I never heard of a proper time to to sit/stand, so I always kneel until the closing of the tabernacle. This is only seconds before the celebrant sits anyway and I would rather it be tied to the presence of Christ exposed in the tabernacle than teh posture of the priest. Perhaps kneeling after communion will be reinstated in the GIRM and we can all be on the same page.

 

[Christus_Rex]

I’ve never seen it here in the UK!

Michael

 

[Mom_of_5]

Angel,

I am waiting to hear as to whether or not we should all stand while everyone recieves communion and only sit, or kneel, after all have recieved? You seem to be very knowledgable. If handholding is “wrong”, then certainly this practice of standing during communion is also against the GIRM. I would like to know the answer since we attend a church in the diocese that practices this quite often. (By the way every pew is full at this church and they also hold hands…)

I am a bit offended. You seem to think that I do not follow the “rules” of the church. I went to Catholic school for 12 years. Attended mass every day, sang in the choir. Helped raise money to build several churches, opened my home for mass when our little parish had no church at all. I’ve taught CCD classes, all ages. I have helped several people with their conversion to the Catholic Church. Raised 5 children in the Church as well as encouraged grandchildren, nieces, nephews, etc. etc. in the faith, went through a marriage annullment in order to remain in good standing in our church. (Annullments are NOT easy. I followed the “Rules”) I have lived through so MANY changes with the Church it is difficult to keep up with them . Many of these changes have served us well, others, not. Blind obedience? …my four, yes 4 aunts who were nuns practiced blind obedience. Four beautiful women who gave their lives to the Church, and yet taught me that sometimes it is really important to think for myself. If I thought for even one minute that I was offending God or His church on earth by holding my neighbors hand while reciting the Lord’s Prayer, I would dis-continue immediately and ask His forgiveness and that of all my fellow parishioners as well as all in this forum whom may have been harmed in any way by my actions and/or opinions. If following or not following practices such as the ones we are discussing, determines whether or not I am a good Catholic, then, quite frankly, I do not want to be Catholic. I admired Mother Theresa. Of all modern day saints, she is my favorite. If I asked her the importance of our “rules” I believe she would have a good laugh. She did not set out to “convert” or wear her piety on her sleeve, she was there to show mercy and give God’s loving care to the sick and dying, no matter what religion or none at all. As I am writing this, it does occur to me that I really do not want to be known as a “good Catholic who follows the church rules”. I prefer to leave a legacy of kindness, understanding and love to all I meet and know, whether I am standing, kneeling, walking or holding some strangers hand. Don’t worry, I never force my hand on anyone. When I reach out and my hand is not accepted, I am not offended, I will do it again next week and the next. Maybe some day, you will forget to ponder the “hand holding” rule and take my hand in brotherly/sisterly love.

Love and peace from an old time Catholic who really loves the new warmer feeling…Yes, “feeling”!

Mom

 

[m134e5]

I don’t approve of the practice at all. I wish priests and bishops would properly educate the laity on the matter- and that more laity would learn why we shouldn’t on their own. That being said, I’m not about to jerk my hand away from anybody. This isn’t a problem in my parish- very few if any hold hands there, but I cannot drive- and during the school year I often have to go to other parishes. I’ll try to be in a position where hand holding is never even an issue, but I’m NOT about to jerk my hand away from somebody who holds theirs out- because that person will probably think “oh…so they don’t want to hold MY hand” (I thought that way about people who did that to me, before I knew better)- so much for being an example of a good Christian to them. That kind of behavior runs people off whose faith may be weak already.

 

[Deus_Vult]

Angels Watchin:

That doesn’t make it right, or even acceptable.
Why is everyone trying to ‘walk around’ the laws of the church.

You all sound like high school kids, trying to gain your ‘independance’ from mom and dad.

“But mom, you didn’t say I couldn’t go to THAT bar with THAT 28 year old guy!!”

“But dad, you didn’t say I couldn’t drive your volkswagon bug offroad in the mountains!!”

Stop PROTESTING against the simple instructions of the Magisterium of the Church. Just do what you’re told. In humility and obedience.

God help us,
Angel

Where does it say it is not acceptable???

“In the celebration of the Mass the faithful are a holy people, a chosen people, a royal priesthood: they give thanks to God and offer the Victim not only through the hands of the priest but also together with him and learn to offer themselves. They should endeavor to make this clear by their deep sense of reverence for God and their charity toward brothers and sisters who share with them in the celebration. They therefore are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have the one Father in heaven and therefore are all brothers and sisters to each other.” GIRM 95

“They should become one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or joining in prayers and liturgical song, or above all by offering the sacrifice together and sharing together the Lord’s table. There is a beautiful expression of this unity when the faithful maintain uniformity in their gestures and postures.” GIRM 96

 

[netmilsmom]

Deus Vult:

Where does it say it is not acceptable???

“In the celebration of the Mass the faithful are a holy people, a chosen people, a royal priesthood: they give thanks to God and offer the Victim not only through the hands of the priest but also together with him and learn to offer themselves. They should endeavor to make this clear by their deep sense of reverence for God and their charity toward brothers and sisters who share with them in the celebration. They therefore are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have the one Father in heaven and therefore are all brothers and sisters to each other.” GIRM 95

“They should become one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or joining in prayers and liturgical song, or above all by offering the sacrifice together and sharing together the Lord’s table. There is a beautiful expression of this unity when the faithful maintain uniformity in their gestures and postures.” GIRM 96

Nothing is to be added to the Holy Mass according to the GIRM. Where is the Holding Hands part?

Here is something to think about from the Bishop Jurgis of St. Louis…
"Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?

BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989

No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity."

So, if nothing is to be added and Holding hands makes those of us who dislike the innovation feel excluded, to keep the unity, this innovation should stop.

 

[otm]

Mom of 5:

How many of you stand while the entire congregation recieves communion and only sit when the last person has recieved communion? This is done in a church we have attended several times in another diocese in our state. We questioned this practice and were told the Bishop has made this decision, NOT the pope. Is this Bishop acting incorrectly or is our Bishop wrong in not directing us to stand during communion? Is this in the GIRM or did they leave it out because there are too many other things to put in?

Love and peace
Mom

The GIRM had some language that was confusing as to the posture during Communion; it sounded as if all were to remain standing as Communion started, and the way it was written, it sounded as if they were to do so whether they were waiting to proceed up to Communion or they were returning to their pew after receiving.

A question (called a “dubium”) was sent to the CDW, and the answer was that upon returning to their pew, they could kneel or sit. The answer was made in a way that implied that they could stand, also upon returning. It was not, however, mandatory that they stand upon returning, but those who had not yet received were to be standing.

 

[Mom_of_5]

We were present the Sunday the “standing” was initiated. A letter from the Bishop was read to the congregation asking that all who could (ill, disabled, etc. were excused) were asked to remain standing even after they returned from communion. Only to sit or kneel after the last person recieved. The reason given was to show courtesy, much like everyone sitting at the same time around the dining table in our homes. We live in the same state, although some 400 miles from this particular church and have not had this same directive. I asked several priests about this practice and was told it was up to the Bishop to decide on this practice. I asked my family in another part of the country if they stand during communion and they said no. I don’t object to it, just wondering if this was going to be the “norm” in all dioceses. Those who do not wish to stand do sit, much like anyone who cannot/does not, “hold hands” (Lords Prayer) for any reason, no one is offended. Again, personal preference.

Love and peace,

Mom

 

[alterserver_07]

I don’t know if all cost is the right thing to say, but I will avoid it as much as I can. The only time I would do something like holding hands is if I have a little cousin that is like 2-5 and they hold hands in their parish and they want to. But if they are older, I won’t and I will tell them why.

 

[system]

Deus Vult:

Where does it say it is not acceptable???

“In the celebration of the Mass the faithful are a holy people, a chosen people, a royal priesthood: they give thanks to God and offer the Victim not only through the hands of the priest but also together with him and learn to offer themselves. They should endeavor to make this clear by their deep sense of reverence for God and their charity toward brothers and sisters who share with them in the celebration. They therefore are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have the one Father in heaven and therefore are all brothers and sisters to each other.” GIRM 95

“They should become one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or joining in prayers and liturgical song, or above all by offering the sacrifice together and sharing together the Lord’s table. There is a beautiful expression of this unity when the faithful maintain uniformity in their gestures and postures.” GIRM 96

Can you tell me where in this statement it says that it is acceptable?

 

[Deus_Vult]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Nothing is to be added to the Holy Mass according to the GIRM. Where is the Holding Hands part?

Here is something to think about from the Bishop Jurgis of St. Louis…
"Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?

BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989

No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity."

So, if nothing is to be added and Holding hands makes those of us who dislike the innovation feel excluded, to keep the unity, this innovation should stop.

For the record my parish does not do this…actually we pray with hands extended…holding hands is not adding anything…it is considered acceptable. I found this reading to be quite helpful in explaining…

catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=508

I am still curious…why do you all think it’s a bad thing to do? I went to Mass in Long Island several months ago and was dismayed at how there was no interaction between the community. I even saw people honking and waving fists while leaving the parking lot. What have we become? It seems to me that some…not all want to distance themselves from the Catholic community element of the Church. Have a PERSONAL relationship with Christ if you will…I’m sorry that sounds a little to Protestant to me. We are the Body of Christ lets start acting like it.