Do you hold hands during the Our Father?

  • Thread starter Thread starter David_B
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
MichaelTDoyle:
For me I am focusing on praying to the Father and my hands are clasped in front of me. I’m not too aware of what people do at that point of the mass, my concentration and my devotion are directed toward the Father as the priest acting in the person of Christ leads us in prayer.

peace
I, too, have my hands clasped in front of me during the recitation or singing of the Our Father. It seems that when Father says: “Let us pray…” many people leave their hands at their side or just keep holding down the pews. Does not one usually clasp hands when praying? I really don’t like to hold hands especially when my neighbor has just finished blowing his nose. I will extend my hands and offer a sign of peace if my neighbor wants to shake. It’s becoming common (at our daily masses) to just raise one’s hand and say Peace of the Lord be with you, instead of actually shaking hands.
 
The best thing is to start picking one’s nose 2 minutes before, or pull out a tissue and blow one’s nose non-stop. Or one can unite both hands in prayer with eyes closed.
 
I remember back in Kindergaarten, these “nuns” still used their habits (the ORDER) that was back in 1976. It was the calf showing liberal habit, but at least it was something. This is what they use NOW. Notice their Mass? Where is the priest or do THEY offer mass? As per they are now into the women’s movement and ecology.http://www.csasisters.org/site_uploads/gallery/photo893_1.jpg
 
Look closely, the priest is in red. You can see him inbetween the ladies in navy and white. I too wish the nuns still wore uniform habits. The old habits were hot and nasty to keep clean, but uniform skirts, blouses and maybe a small headpiece would help define the nuns and we could then show them the proper respect due to them In italy last summer, we saw many nuns in habits. Everything from full dress garb and the lighter, cooler dreses.

Love and peace,

Mom
 
Deus Vult–I’ve been thinking over what you’ve said, and looking at the pictures, and maybe this will kind of help put it in perspective, based on my experience. I’ve been Catholic almost 2 years, and in the initial, heady days of my first conversion, my family took a cruise. I’d only been Catholic a few weeks, and was riding a wave of passionate love for Christ and held up by graces of the Holy Spirit. I knew very little about the Church and about factions within the Church–was just open to everyone and everything. Definitely orthodox and wanting to be loyal to Rome, but personally have always been sort of a “flower child” in behavior and very open-minded, so I was perfectly happy in my home parish. And actually, for a good while, we had a nice spirit going there between progressive and more orthodox Catholics. Sadly, things have broken down in the past year or so–I’ve tried to stay out of the fray, but it’s sad to see. The election, Terry Shiavo, all that takes its toll. Anyway–I digress.

What I wanted to say–I’m a Texan, too–and I know what you mean about hugging and all–but I suspect you are in a parish where you sort of know the people–my parents live in a community like that too.

Anyway–this ship had a priest–looking back–I hope he was a real priest! We were so fortunate,anyway, to have daily mass–it was cool–not knowing Catholic culture–looking back–I’d go to bingo, and then go upstairs to the lounge for mass–lol! So…he’d invite us to gather round the altar for the consecration. I didn’t know any better. I argued online strongly for this for the longest time. To this day, it was a very moving experience to be that close to our Lord. But I’ve come to see the wisdom of Holy Mother Church in making the rules she does. I don’t like the rules, but I learned the hard way. In examining myself–I very definitely felt that I, up there, was morally superior to all the folks who remained seated. I wondered, sort of on a subliminal (or is that subliminable ;)) level, what was wrong with them. I assumed they were lukewarm believers. I have no idea whether they might have had a leg injury, been very devout, been knowledgeable about the GIRM*, unlike me, been very judgmental about me and therefore unworthy themselves; also, whether the people around the altar were smug like me, totally holy saints, or indeed, what anyone’s state of soul was. It’s so true we are all unworthy to receive.

So…even though it was moving and profound…and the Lord was merciful to me, a sinner, to allow me to be so close to Him at such an intimate moment, in my ignorance–perhaps for catechetical purposes, to teach me humility, and perhaps for this moment, who knows?–what I did, even though I didn’t know any better–was wrong, because it was not in accordance with the Magisterium.

Therefore–even though I felt strongly something was holy–if the Church says don’t do it, that means Christ says don’t do it.

Hope this helps.

Love,
Donna
 
I did notice something though–someone’s going to notice! (Note to Donna–think before posting!) The Church hasn’t actually condemned outright the hand-holding, has it? I guess I’m just talking about our individual attitudes in general toward church orders–and if our bishop actually does give an instruction…

In Him,
Donna
 
40.png
Luvadoxi:
. . .The Church hasn’t actually condemned outright the hand-holding, has it? . . .
It’s probably been mentioned before in this thread, but it bears repeating. Church law is positive law - that is to say that those things which are required or permitted are specifically stated. those things which are not mentioned are not permitted, even as options. Hope that helps.
 
40.png
Luvadoxi:
Deus Vult–I’ve been thinking over what you’ve said, and looking at the pictures, and maybe this will kind of help put it in perspective, based on my experience. I’ve been Catholic almost 2 years, and in the initial, heady days of my first conversion, my family took a cruise. I’d only been Catholic a few weeks, and was riding a wave of passionate love for Christ and held up by graces of the Holy Spirit. I knew very little about the Church and about factions within the Church–was just open to everyone and everything. Definitely orthodox and wanting to be loyal to Rome, but personally have always been sort of a “flower child” in behavior and very open-minded, so I was perfectly happy in my home parish. And actually, for a good while, we had a nice spirit going there between progressive and more orthodox Catholics. Sadly, things have broken down in the past year or so–I’ve tried to stay out of the fray, but it’s sad to see. The election, Terry Shiavo, all that takes its toll. Anyway–I digress.

What I wanted to say–I’m a Texan, too–and I know what you mean about hugging and all–but I suspect you are in a parish where you sort of know the people–my parents live in a community like that too.

Anyway–this ship had a priest–looking back–I hope he was a real priest! We were so fortunate,anyway, to have daily mass–it was cool–not knowing Catholic culture–looking back–I’d go to bingo, and then go upstairs to the lounge for mass–lol! So…he’d invite us to gather round the altar for the consecration. I didn’t know any better. I argued online strongly for this for the longest time. To this day, it was a very moving experience to be that close to our Lord. But I’ve come to see the wisdom of Holy Mother Church in making the rules she does. I don’t like the rules, but I learned the hard way. In examining myself–I very definitely felt that I, up there, was morally superior to all the folks who remained seated. I wondered, sort of on a subliminal (or is that subliminable ;)) level, what was wrong with them. I assumed they were lukewarm believers. I have no idea whether they might have had a leg injury, been very devout, been knowledgeable about the GIRM*, unlike me, been very judgmental about me and therefore unworthy themselves; also, whether the people around the altar were smug like me, totally holy saints, or indeed, what anyone’s state of soul was. It’s so true we are all unworthy to receive.

So…even though it was moving and profound…and the Lord was merciful to me, a sinner, to allow me to be so close to Him at such an intimate moment, in my ignorance–perhaps for catechetical purposes, to teach me humility, and perhaps for this moment, who knows?–what I did, even though I didn’t know any better–was wrong, because it was not in accordance with the Magisterium.

Therefore–even though I felt strongly something was holy–if the Church says don’t do it, that means Christ says don’t do it.

Hope this helps.

Love,
Donna
Thats the point the Church has NEVER said dont do it…and yes I am in a parish with a lot of people I know…but it wasnt always that way. I moved to Houston six years ago. The church I go to now does not hold hands but the parish I went to the first two years in Houston did…it was new to me then but it didnt weird me out on the contrary I thought wow how nice these folks are that they have such a tight community that they hold hands to pray. Oh well it doesnt look like I will change any minds on this thread…you all can keep to yourselves at Mass. Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread how they didnt know if the person next to them had blown there nose or something…thats why they didnt want to hold hands maybe you all should petition the Vatican to stop the sign of peace as well or how about partitions in between so we dont have to look at each other as well. Many people have incinuated that my thinking is not orthodox maybe not in those words but it has been said. I am very by the book when it comes to our doctrine…Deus Vult is definitely NO cafeteria Catholic…so for the record I follow and believe everything thing our Church teaches…but I’m sorry this is not mandated by the Church although many of you have went so far as to say it is. Correct me if I am wrong but the Bishops have been allowed some latitude on the matter it is not against the rules if you will…so it really should not be a debate…I got on this thread to discuss whether or not we thought it should or shouldnt be what we do not to argue on whether or not it is right or wrong.

I’m not picking on you Donna…I really appreciated your thoughts and very personal message…this is for the whole thread.
 
40.png
Servulus:
Church law is positive law - that is to say that those things which are required or permitted are specifically stated. those things which are not mentioned are not permitted, even as options.
This is true as far as the GIRM goes. However, the Vatican and Curia is not bashful in issuing directions that proscribe certain abuses. I remember when Redemptionus Sarcamentum was released, I read it hoping it might finally address this issue, but it did not. It addressed many issues I have heard two different apologist on CA Live offer differing opinions on this topic.

So the question remains what to do when others are holding hands. I have read that some people hold their hands together and interlace their fingers. Others have said they put their hands in their pockets. Neither of these actions are postively permitted in the GIRM, though.

I make no effort to hold hands and none to avoid it. I admire those who do not because they believe it to be improper. I likewise have no issue with those they do. If the Vatican does, there is always the possibility of Redemptionus Sarcamentum II.
 
Deus Vult:
Thats not cool…the picture you attached is not the same Church…note the alter is different as well as the carpeted steps…I dont know what that is a picture of but I doubt its a Roman Catholic Church.
It’s so amazing almost unbelievable. YES!!! Sure is a roman catholic nuns chapel=two diffent occasions and locations.
 
40.png
misericordie:
It’s so amazing almost unbelievable. YES!!! Sure is a roman catholic nuns chapel=two diffent occasions and locations.
My bad…I checked it out after I sent the response. I apologize…and I took a better look at my original photo and maybe it was not a good picture to make my point. I am pretty computer literate but a internet novice…just because you google Catholic does not mean you get Catholic.
 
Deus Vult:
My bad…I checked it out after I sent the response. I apologize…and I took a better look at my original photo and maybe it was not a good picture to make my point. I am pretty computer literate but a internet novice…just because you google Catholic does not mean you get Catholic.
I think she is dancing the hussle here?😛 :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
It gets to be distracting with people stretching across the isle and contorting around to the pew behind them. It makes me wonder if it is an attention-getting tactic (probably not consciously). I just fold my hands and bow my head. My 8 yr-old didn’t understand for a while and sometimes would hound me until I held his hand, which I did because we were starting to cause a scene. But I’ve tried to explain it to him. But it’s hard going week after week and seeing so many in our parish doing it, and I know my son thinks I’m being a “meany.”

On a similar note, I have a friend in our parish who is from Italy. She is highly offended by the “hospitality ministers” who insist on shaking your hand as you leave the pew to receive the eucharist-- every one of them, every time you go for communion. She cannot believe they are being so “chatty” with her as she goes to recieve our Lord. She also cringes as our priest will make little conversation with her(or anyone) as she recieves the Lord.
 
40.png
pnewton:
This is true as far as the GIRM goes. However, the Vatican and Curia is not bashful in issuing directions that proscribe certain abuses.
You are exactly right. While the church does positively identify things that are to be done, it also positively identifies things that *are not * to be done. This is done by the level with proper jurisdiction, and may take time to occur.

For instance, if an individual parish was to start indulging in juggling or bar-b-quing in the choir loft, as was mentioned in another thread, a call or letter from the local bishop would probably deal with it. If it is a more widespread issue, such as kneeling or standing for communion, the Bishop’s conference would probably be the appropriate vehicle. Something very widespread would more likely default to the Congregation on the Sacred Liturgy.

This particular issue has been around for many, many years–to the joy of some and distress of others. The GIRM has twice declined to address it. Further, and perhaps more importantly, the recent Redemptionis Sacramentum, written specifically to deal with all manner of liturgical abuses, also declined to proclaim it as an abuse.

As such, at this time it is essentially licit. In the absence of a ruling otherwise from the Vatican, a Conference of Bishops could probably address it as a norm, which has not happened. In the absence of that, an individual bishop can, as some have, declare it unacceptable in their jurisdiction. To the best of my knowledge however, while they might declare it to be acceptable, an individual bishop (or priest) would not have the power to mandate it.

As such, if you live in a diocese that does not prohibit it, it is pretty much up to the individual as to whether to participate. While I have never personally encountered it, I understand there are parishes where it has become a *de facto * mandate, which is truly sad and unfair to those who do not want to participate. In the interest of charity, bishops should probably step in, as Archbishop Chaput of Denver did, and make it clear that no one should impose this on someone who does not want to participate. On the other hand, those who do not participate should be fair and not denigrate or question the devotion or orthodoxy of those who do find it to be a meaningful symbol.

Sowing division over a matter of preference is definitely not a Christian action. We need to, as Jesus did, focus on what’s in the heart.

Peace,
John
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top