Do you hold hands during the Our Father?

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Ooooops, and then at the end I forgot to answer the actual thread question. :rolleyes:

Yes I do hold hands if the person next to me is willing. If I’m not next to a family member, I’ll put out my hand and allow the person next to me to choose.

I personally do find it a very meaningful symbol of the Body of Christ addressing Our Father. I have no problem however with those who look at it differently, just as I personally feel very uncomfortable when I find myself at a Charismatic mass, since I express myself differently, but have no problem with those who raise their hands with joy.

Peace,
John
 
As Catholics, we all agree with the Church that the Holy Eucharist is the unity of the Catholic Church because nothing is greater than Jesus’ true presence. Holding hands has no prescribed place in the Holy Mass, so it is a distraction. As a Catholic I have the right – the RIGHT, under Canon law – to have all the sacraments celebrated properly and without distractions. People interrupting my participation in the distinctly public prayer of the Mass to insist I behave in conformity with their insistence on this un-sanctioned innovation, rather than conforming their wills to the spirit of the rubrics, have no right to distract me or anyone that way.

I think people insist on adding this to the Mass because they feel they can get away with it. License justified, and feel is the operative word.

The only real unity of the Holy Mass is the Eucharist. Catholic Christian unity is not among ourselves. We don’t control or enable it by gestures like holding hands. It can only be with and through the Eucharistic Christ, truly present on the altar, and truly becoming our food and drink. Otherwise, we are NOT members of the mystical body of Christ, but just a room full of people holding hands, congratulating ourselves on our friendliness. God enables our unity in the Eucharist. We are blessed to follow, not to lead, nor to innovate as we feel.

Absolutely everything else in the Mass relates directly to Jesus. How does everyone adopting the “Kumbaya Posture” relate to Jesus? It is not a licit nor valid part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It doesn’t belong, so please don’t bring it in. This is what draws me to agree with the Bishop’s opinion of this practice as “childish.” Children want what they want precisely because they do not or will not understand more than what they want. When they are told “no” they often whine or have a tantrum.

The orans posture itself, which seems to be the impulse or “justification” behind this invented holding hands business–wherever it came from-- itself IS biblical in origin. The brothers of Moses held up his arms so their army could win the battle. In terms of one’s private piety, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER WRONG with praying in the orans posture, nor with holding hands during private prayer – outside of the Mass.

But the Mass is emphatically not private, but is public. To anyone who attends this public act, we MUST give the good example of a sign of unity with the Eucharistic Christ as members of His Mystical Body, by conforming ourselves with our whole minds, our whole souls, our whole selves, and our whole strength, not exclusively with EACH OTHER through an uninvited symbolic innovation, bolted onto the Mass by our wilfulness, but truly and substantially with the Eucharistic Christ in full obedience to His Church, through our disciplined obedience of the rubrics of our worship in the Mass.

To say “that’s not good enough, so I’m adding more” amounts to a denial of the sufficiency of the Mass for worship as provided by our holy Mother Church, guided and protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Who are we, as the laity, to say, “I will improve upon the Mass by adding the missing ingredients I feel it needs.”

We obey what the rubrics say, AND ALSO what they do not say. We seek to follow BOTH the spirit AND the letter of the laws of our Church, out of love and respect for Christ and his divine will. We don’t seek to justify our innovation by citing lack of explicit exclusion: a legalistic maneuver through a loophole. Some children and especially rebellious teenagers try to do that all the time.

Catholics who try to conscript others into confirmity with their will for private piety, rather than to the will of the Church in complete devotion to the Eucharistically present Christ, are creating a distraction in the public Mass by their wilfillness in this holding hands thing. They give scandal which is bad example.

The Liturgical moment of Our Lord’s Prayer in the Holy Mass is not about creating an outward symbol of unity among ourselves, it’s about joining with Christ in the reality of his True Presence on the Altar to make us mystically one with and in HIM – not just physically AMONG OURSELVES. The priest, an alter Christus, leads our prayer. We are to follow, as the Apostles did. We’re not supposed to form our own association separate from Christ. Not even symbolically–not even by accident or “accident.”

The Orans posture in the Mass – IN THE MASS – is reserved to the priest because in the context of the Sacraments, he functions as an alter Christus: “another Christ.” Away from the Real Presence, hold hands saying the Lord’s Prayer all you want! There’s no problem with using it outside the Mass.

The Eucharist is our greatest unity. Nothing, not even all of us holding hands can add to that, and it can be perceived by some as “the point” of the Mass, which would be a great error.

Christ leads our prayer to the Father, and we his children follow, we do not seek to lead – neither each other nor anyone else, symbolically or otherwise. Holding hands during the Lord’s prayer in the Holy Mass has no rightful or even logical place, and therefore insistence upon it is nothing more than a wilful expression of the self, seeking to “enhance” or “correct” the perfection of Jesus present at the Lamb’s Supper.

When someone gestures to me to grab their hand during Mass, I smile and gesture with my folded hands towards the altar.
 
John, you’re right–it’s what’s in the heart–and we need to be focusing on the Lord and not what our neighbor might or might not be thinking. And Deus Vult–thank you so much for your kind words. It’s always a sensitive matter on message boards to discuss something like this…I don’t mean to say anything hurtful or offensive. Just want to try and convey some of my inner feelings of my journey as a convert from initial joy and acceptance over various expressions of religious piety, to my current state of sometime confusion over what one might call a “hostile worship environment” where I live, or at least sometimes in my own sinful perception. Satan can play mind games really well. And I apologize for seeing specks when I’m really aware of my logs, too. What’s happened in our parish is that I thought all expressions of piety were accepted, so I was initially really open-minded. Over time, I saw that certain ones were, and others (associated with “pre-Vatican II piety”–something I had never heard of, having grown up Protestant for 50 years) were not that well-accepted. So…I allowed these fears to color my comments here on this board, which was perhaps unfair, because I think the vast majority of hand-holding Catholics 😉 do not have dark motives! And certainly I still hold hands of kids, old folks, mentally challenged people, etc., etc.
However, another Bible verse that’s appropriate is the one about how Jesus knew what was in the heart of people, and didn’t trust himself to them. This is why I really am not so enthusiastic anymore about physical contact with “my fellow Roman Catholics”. It’s because I sense the insincerity of the “love” behind the gesture. And I believe I am correct. And really, we don’t need to be thinking about all this stuff during the Lord’s Prayer if it isn’t truly bringing us together in Christ, right? If one confused believer who was once a joyous new convert is this obsessed with this gesture, it’s divisive, right?
I can write all this because tonight I’m no longer depressed.
I highly recommend tonight’s EWTN program Journey Home–God answered my prayers and lifted my depression with this show–the guest mentioned how we and the Church can be such terrible sinners and yet the indefectible Bride of Christ at the same time (but he put it better–using Martin Luther’s words, no less!). If you all have time to watch it, it’s great–it will be re-run a couple times…
Hope I didn’t step on too many toes.
 
kevinfraser–what an awesome post!!! The Eucharist was what brought me into the Catholic Church. I had never heard of this before, not in all my 50 years as a Protestant, did I have an idea you actually had Jesus alive in your Church. How could I not have known this? This great Mystery–the more I think about it–the more I realize how much grace is involved–the Lord reveals Himself to each of us when the time is right–I shudder to think what I might have done and said, knowing my sarcastic nature, had I learned about this before the soil was prepared…

Wow…what a great post–thank you!
 
Everybody in my church holds hands and sways while we chant the Pater Noster at High Mass. At Low Mass, though, we all just enter the orans posture. Needless to say, we do the same thing whenever we say “Et cum spiritu tuo” (And with thy spirit).

We strive to be a welcoming faith community in the Tridentine Catholic tradition. :whistle:
 
TLM Altar Boy:
Everybody in my church holds hands and sways while we chant the Pater Noster at High Mass. At Low Mass, though, we all just enter the orans posture. Needless to say, we do the same thing whenever we say “Et cum spiritu tuo” (And with thy spirit).
It’s refreshing to see that the TLM community makes stuff up as they go just as much as the NO folks do. And I thought they were all stuffy and old fashioned. 😃

I’m just funnin’ ya… 😉
 
I don’t know…maybe I’m crazy, but I go to church to worship my Lord…not to worry about whether to hold hands, who’s wearing what, bow my head at the exact appropriate moment, or any of the other 10,000 different things I could be letting divert my attention from WHY I’m there to begin with. If I start worrying about every little detail my focus will be on exactly that…the details. It won’t be on God where it belongs.

And I have to say I’m a little disappointed at the backbiting going on. Since when is being right more important than how we treat each other? Since when are the DETAILS more important than GOD? It seems in all of this arguing about what to do and not to do we’ve forgotten one of the most important details of all…LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR!
 
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Enigma0219:
I don’t know…maybe I’m crazy, but I go to church to worship my Lord…not to worry about whether to hold hands, who’s wearing what, bow my head at the exact appropriate moment, or any of the other 10,000 different things I could be letting divert my attention from WHY I’m there to begin with. If I start worrying about every little detail my focus will be on exactly that…the details. It won’t be on God where it belongs.
That is exactly the point.

The GIRM exists is to define, standardize and ritualize the Mass. It is that ritualization that makes the Mass consistent, and it is that consistency which helps PREVENT distractions.

Those who are in favor of a consistent celebration of the Mass according to the rubrics do so precisely because they don’t want there to be distractions, and they don’t want their attention diverted from “WHY I’m there to begin with”.

That is why we oppose liturgical abuses, folksy additions, novel interpretations or freelancing during the Mass. We are entitled to a reverent celebration of the Mass WITHOUT distractions. The ritual of the Mass exists to prevent distraction.

It is the innovations that cause distraction, not the rituals.

Nobody opposes friendliness, neighborliness or creative expressions of unity, we just ask that they not be injected into the Mass.

Is that so difficult to understand?
 
I won’t initiate it but will do it if someone is insistent upon it or if it’s a child (or a hot chick! - j/k)
 
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Dandelion_Wine:
I won’t initiate it but will do it if someone is insistent upon it or if it’s a child (or a hot chick! - j/k)
Ditto…minus the “hot chick” part. 😃
 
Deus Vult:
If you cant hold hands with the people you go to Church with then I dont know what to say to you…in my family we always hold hands when we pray. I consider all members of the Body of Christ my family…I thought we all did…my wishful thinking maybe. I dont see whether or not holding hands elsewhere in American society has to do with what we do in Church. I got into this thread thinking it was a religious practice debate…is it an accepted practice or not etc…I did not realize the main dificulty people have with it is the not wanting to have physical contact with others…how sad is that. Do you think Jesus held peoples hands or hugged people…what a sad world you must live in? I hold hands with my neighbors when we pray before dinner and hey guess what we hug each other when they leave…do you think my wife and I are sending mixed messages to our children or maybe just love and compassion for our fellow man? They know the difference between friend and stranger and we even tell them not to trust anyone but mom and dad…if anything we are over protective but dont hold hands at Church oh no thats a bad thing it takes away from when we hold hands get a grip. 😦
It is this kind of talk that leads me to believe that you do not believe in the REAL PRESENCE! We are more in communion with each other by receiveing the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ than the mere gesture of holding hands. It is not reverant. Why do you have a problem with NOT holding hands? Does it lower your self esteem or something. In this day and age, our children NEED to fear strangers. There are more and more who are dangerous, and yes even in our church!!! Why chastize someone who wants to protect their children??? You need to get a grip on reality!!
 
vicia3:
It is this kind of talk that leads me to believe that you do not believe in the REAL PRESENCE! We are more in communion with each other by receiveing the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ than the mere gesture of holding hands. It is not reverant. Why do you have a problem with NOT holding hands? Does it lower your self esteem or something. In this day and age, our children NEED to fear strangers. There are more and more who are dangerous, and yes even in our church!!! Why chastize someone who wants to protect their children??? You need to get a grip on reality!!
My belief in the REAL PRESENCE it is why I am Roman Catholic…I do not have a problem with NOT holding hands on the contrary…I said earlier in the thread my parish does not even do this what I said was I dont understand you and others that are so appalled by it…and I said I dont consider members of the Body of Christ strangers as you seem to do. I did not say I would put 100% trust in members of my Church but I dont think showing compassion for my fellow man is wrong. My wife and I are very protective of our children…they are not allowed to go outside our home without one of us present…they have never slept over at a friends or even a family members home other than Grandma’s…can you say the same about your children? Children learn to hold hands in school…I do not want to teach them it is inappropriate at Church…the fact is the four of them sit between my wife and I so the only hands they would hold are ours. If you have a problem holding the hand of the person next to you in prayer how can you in good conscience offer your hand in the sign of peace. Maybe the people on this thread with personal space issues have a more deep rooted issue than is being expressed. A lot of the same words keep surfacing…touching, strangers, trust, etc…maybe this thread is not the appropriate one for you all…you could start one…you all could talk about your issues and who made you feel this way. I will pray for you all.
:blessyou:
 
Mom of 5:
Do you read “The Rock”? It is in there. “Show of Hands”…by Tim Ryland. The vatican has NOT said no to holding hands during the Lords Prayer, though it is not encouraged. How many of you stand while the entire congregation recieves communion and only sit when the last person has recieved communion? This is done in a church we have attended several times in another diocese in our state. We questioned this practice and were told the Bishop has made this decision, NOT the pope. Is this Bishop acting incorrectly or is our Bishop wrong in not directing us to stand during communion? Is this in the GIRM or did they leave it out because there are too many other things to put in?

Love and peace
Mom
I have a question. Do you kneel in your pew, after you receive communion? That has been the practice in our area since I was little. (A long, long time ago) We only sit when the priest sits.
 
Deus Vult:
My wife and I are very protective of our children…they are not allowed to go outside our home without one of us present…they have never slept over at a friends or even a family members home other than Grandma’s…can you say the same about your children?
Got ya beat! Mine have never even stayed at Grandma’s!
If you have a problem holding the hand of the person next to you in prayer how can you in good conscience offer your hand in the sign of peace.
Really, there is a difference between a handshake and handholding. When was the last time you went to a business meeting and held someone’s hand? When was the last time you held a strangers hand anywhere? Americans don’t do that.
Maybe the people on this thread with personal space issues have a more deep rooted issue than is being expressed. A lot of the same words keep surfacing…touching, strangers, trust, etc…maybe this thread is not the appropriate one for you all…you could start one…you all could talk about your issues and who made you feel this way. I will pray for you all.
Please, pray for understanding for yourself. After working for many years as an Office Manager with two Psychiatrists and five therapists, I can tell you that personal space “issues” are not issues at all. Every human has a limit on that personal space. Yours is apparently very low, but the average American’s is high. We don’t hug and hold hands with strangers. As I stated before, we would be hard pressed to find another situation where we are expected to hold hands with strangers.

And a better question would be, why not hold hands for the Creed? It’s “We believe in God…”
Why not hold hands all through the mass?
 
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davy39:
I have a question. Do you kneel in your pew, after you receive communion? That has been the practice in our area since I was little. (A long, long time ago) We only sit when the priest sits.
We do the same!
 
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davy39:
I have a question. Do you kneel in your pew, after you receive communion? That has been the practice in our area since I was little. (A long, long time ago) We only sit when the priest sits.
Do you know why you do this?

Dove

PS Do any others know why it is this way?
 
“OhioBob That is exactly the point.”

The GIRM exists is to define, standardize and ritualize the Mass. It is that ritualization that makes the Mass consistent, and it is that consistency which helps PREVENT distractions.

…Nobody opposes friendliness, neighborliness or creative expressions of unity, we just ask that they not be injected into the Mass…"

I agree whole heartedly with this post. In our church people do mostly hold hands and imitate the Priest, he has asked that people “do not” hold their hands in the Priestly way but to hold them palms up, at waist height and keep them that low throughout the Lord’s Prayer. As for my Husband and I, we teach out 5 children to hold their hands together in front of them pointing in a Heavenly direction vs the outward earthly direction. Which helps to focus more on what we’re saying in prayer vs who’s sweaty or cold hands we are holding.
 
I avoid holding, but will not leave anyone hanging (if they persist.)
 
heymoo said:
“OhioBob That is exactly the point.”

The GIRM exists is to define, standardize and ritualize the Mass. It is that ritualization that makes the Mass consistent, and it is that consistency which helps PREVENT distractions.

…Nobody opposes friendliness, neighborliness or creative expressions of unity, we just ask that they not be injected into the Mass…"

I agree whole heartedly with this post. In our church people do mostly hold hands and imitate the Priest, he has asked that people “do not” hold their hands in the Priestly way but to hold them palms up, at waist height and keep them that low throughout the Lord’s Prayer. As for my Husband and I, we teach out 5 children to hold their hands together in front of them pointing in a Heavenly direction vs the outward earthly direction. Which helps to focus more on what we’re saying in prayer vs who’s sweaty or cold hands we are holding.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is what I have been trying to say. I am not as charitable as I would like. I apologize.
 
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Turtledove:
Do you know why you do this?

Dove

PS Do any others know why it is this way?
This was the practice even before Vatican 2, during the Latin Mass. I always thought it was to pray and meditate about what had just happened. Namely, the reception of our Lord during Communion. Right after Communion, we always go back to the pew, kneel, and pray.
 
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