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1pppp
Guest
Only the charismatic’s have seen to be prophetic, have you met Catholics who function propheticly?
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Beryllos
Guest
In a broad sense, a prophet is one who communicates God’s word to his people. That word may be expressed in simple ways: Believe. Repent. Love God. Love one another. Nothing mysterious or sophisticated. Just the truth that is necessary for salvation.
Not many Catholics do that, but some do.
Not many Catholics do that, but some do.
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Vico
Guest
For revelation of future events? No.
Catholic Encyclopedia:
As the term is used in mystical theology, it applies both to the prophecies of canonical Scripture and to private prophecies. Understood in its strict sense, it means the foreknowledge of future events, though it may sometimes apply to past events of which there is no memory, and to present hidden things which cannot be known by the natural light of reason. St. Paul, speaking of prophecy in 1 Corinthians 14, does not confine its meaning to predictions of future events, but includes under it Divine inspirations concerning what is secret, whether future or not. As, however, the manifestation of hidden present mysteries or past events comes under revelation, we have here to understand by prophecy what is in its strict and proper sense, namely the revelation of future events. Prophecy consists in knowledge and in the manifestation of what is known. The knowledge must be supernatural and infused by God because it concerns things beyond the natural power of created intelligence; and the knowledge must be manifested either by words or signs, because the gift of prophecy is given primarily for the good of others, and hence needs to be manifested. It is a Divine light by which God reveals things concerning the unknown future and by which these things are in some way represented to the mind of the prophet, whose duty it is to manifest them to others
Devine, A. (1911). Prophecy. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm
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Belshazzar
Guest
Pope Paul the 6th’s Humanae Vitae, certainly.
The visionaries at Kibeho, Rwanda also come to mind.
The visionaries at Kibeho, Rwanda also come to mind.
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Wannano
Guest
I personally love the simplicity of what you presented. And still, if we actually learn what those four things are and incorporate them into our everyday life we will be so occupied we won’t long for the mysterious and sophisticated. Like you said, just the truth necessary for salvation. Seems central to the message of Jesus.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Proverbs 3:5-6…if we can meditate on that and live it, a lot of our problems would go away.
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Wannano
Guest
:QUOTE=Lenten_ashes;14215148]Proverbs 3:5-6…if we can meditate on that and live it, a lot of our problems would go away.
:yup:
:yup:
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Randy_Carson
Guest
As someone who was deeply involved in the Charismatic movement for more than a decade, I can answer “Yes” to your question. I’ve read tons of books, subscribed to all the magazines, done carpet time in Toronto…the works.
And I’ve also seen enough to give me serious reasons to be cautious regarding prophecy as it is commonly understood in many Pentecostal and Charismatic circles.
But what does your Bible say regarding the greatest gift of the Spirit?
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I suppose I’m being a wet blanket here, but the most prophetic person I’ve met was my old Presbyterian (Methodist trained) pastor back in the days when I was still Presbyterian.
He was very accurate in the “strict sense, (where) it means the foreknowledge of future events”, to quote the above.
Amongst his predictions to me, all given before 1992 when he died himself, were -
- “I don’t think your sister will live very long. I think she might get leukemia.” She died in 2005, aged 45.
- “I think (my eldest son) will have a health breakdown … stroke…” His eldest son had a severe stroke circa 1996 or 1997.
- “I think there’s going to be a second Gulf War. I think the Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein and they’ll get rid of him. But I think they’ll lose a few men the next time!” We all know if that happened, and he said “few” with an emphasis which implied a lot more than a few (nearly 5000 as it turned out).
- “I think you’ll become Catholic. I think you might be happier there… etc.” Circa 1996 or 1997.
- “I think there’ll be a conspiracy against you and you’ll lose your job.” 1995 - I lost my then government job.
- “I think there’ll be a massacre in Port Arthur. They’ll use that to bring in gun control” 1996 in Tasmania.
- “I think you’ll be doing a cleaning job for a short time. You won’t like it much, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost.” 2006 - I did a cleaning job for a short time (4 months), didn’t like it much, and heard about a “ghost” (former manager of store who committed suicide in the 1960’s).
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
To add to my post just above, he wasn’t “charismatic”. He was quite conservative.
Another one which he told me he felt a bit guilty about. He had a young bloke in his congregation who was riding his motor bike dangerously. It was obvious to everybody he said.
He told me he wished he’d warned him a bit differently, as he found that things he said tended to happen.
The words he used to the young bloke were “If you don’t smarten up and start riding more carefully, you won’t last two weeks!”
He buried him two weeks later to the day that he warned him.
Another one which he told me he felt a bit guilty about. He had a young bloke in his congregation who was riding his motor bike dangerously. It was obvious to everybody he said.
He told me he wished he’d warned him a bit differently, as he found that things he said tended to happen.
The words he used to the young bloke were “If you don’t smarten up and start riding more carefully, you won’t last two weeks!”
He buried him two weeks later to the day that he warned him.
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Vico
Guest
Some of these are quite remarkable. We are cautioned that for true prophesy
“the prediction should concern things outside the reach of all natural knowledge, and have for its object future contingent things or those things which God alone knows;”
and to eschew
“things beyond human knowledge and yet within the scope of the natural knowledge of demons, but not those things that are strictly speaking the objects of prophecy;”.
newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
The things the old pastor said were well outside the reach of all natural knowledge. I suppose a demon might have worked out there could be a Second Gulf War simply by its knowledge of politics, and listening in to politicians talking, but they’d have no reason to think my sister would get leukemia (which took a good ten or more years to eventuate anyway), that his eldest son would have a stroke, and in particular the business about the “ghost”.
Although there was a rider to the “ghost” prediction. He also said “I think you’ve seen this ghost before”. I hadn’t got a clue what he was talking about, and at the time I regarded that particular prediction and comment as way over the top.
But the cleaning job and the “ghost” came true in 2006. Now the store was located in Ipswich, a town west of Brisbane. Way back circa 1970 when I was about 15 or 16, I’d sometimes go camping with my father just outside a locality called Legume over the NSW border.
To get there in those days we had to drive through Ipswich both ways, or make a longer trip via Beaudesert. When the ghost incident happened, and I had a context to it eg. a store in Ipswich, I remembered that one return trip we were driving down Brisbane Street in Ispwich when I noticed a bloke standing on the footpath with a briefcase.
He looked very frustrated and resigned. As we drove past we looked at each other, and then I turned around to look back. As I did so, he seemed to almost shrug, turned, and walked through the door of the building behind him. Trouble was the door was shut. He went through it.
It gave me the heebie jeebies, and I did my best to forget it, thinking I was seeing things or something. But the better part of 20 years later the old pastor “reminded” me of it, even though I’d said nothing about it to him. He just knew.
Incidentally that prediction eventually involved an Australian priest who I happened to come across via Catholic Answers Forums. But I won’t go into that now.
The pastor’s closing words on that prediction were “I think the **LORD **will just want you to hear about a ghost.” It took 15 years to even start to happen after he made the prediction, and another ten years has gone by since then, although I suppose you could say the saga started circa 1970 when I went camping with my father.
It’s certainly been more than coincidental, and it’s been following me around. I think God’s got some reason for it, but as yet its unrevealed. I’ll just have to wait, like Moses stuffing around on the backside of the desert for 40 years. He had no idea what was going to happen either.
But that’s how accurate the pastor was. As I said, I’ve never met anybody else with the same prophetic accuracy, Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox (mind you, my experience with the Orthodox Church is very limited, attending one Baptism ceremony only which was all Greek to me).
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jas84173
Guest
Personal revelation is not mandated to be doctrine to the Church. I believe only Our Lady of Fatima is. It is why like to Catholics, a groups such as Mormons is just really nothing but a lot of nothing. Many Catholics throughout history have claimed to see apparitions of Christ, or Mary etc. So who do we believe, the thousands of Saints who had divine revelation or some guy in upstate New York in 1820?
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Vico
Guest
We are not required to believe in the private revelations and the revelations from Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Lourdes, and Our Lady of Fátima and the conversations of Saint Faustina Kowalska are called private revelations. We are required to accept the public revelation (the deposit of faith) that was completed with the Apocalypse of St. John the Divine.
Catechism
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
God does “talk” to individual Christians. I suppose I’d regard the old pastor’s predictions to me as “private revelation”, but by and large they were only applicable to me.
My sister’s death from Leukemia for example was an example of private revelation. When she was diagnosed, I wasn’t happy about it, but I wasn’t surprised either as the pastor had already predicted it. But it’s relevance was mainly restricted to myself only. Ditto the bit about a conspiracy and I’d lose my job; his eldest son’s stroke and so on.
I suppose the “ghost” episode might have wider relevance at some stage, but I’m still waiting to find out just what.
God certainly used to “talk” to the pastor - that’s how he knew those things were going to happen. There’s no way he could have foreseen those things using his own natural abilities.
One thing though - he never attempted to put a date on the predictions, with one exception, sort of, and I haven’t given the details of that prediction here. It will have to wait as well.
My sister’s death from Leukemia for example was an example of private revelation. When she was diagnosed, I wasn’t happy about it, but I wasn’t surprised either as the pastor had already predicted it. But it’s relevance was mainly restricted to myself only. Ditto the bit about a conspiracy and I’d lose my job; his eldest son’s stroke and so on.
I suppose the “ghost” episode might have wider relevance at some stage, but I’m still waiting to find out just what.
God certainly used to “talk” to the pastor - that’s how he knew those things were going to happen. There’s no way he could have foreseen those things using his own natural abilities.
One thing though - he never attempted to put a date on the predictions, with one exception, sort of, and I haven’t given the details of that prediction here. It will have to wait as well.
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