Do you live in luxury? If so, what are your luxuries?

[peaceandmercy]

How old are you?

I grew up in a hoarder house and it was awful. I left at 17 and it was amazing to feel like I could breathe again (guess how choked with dust and other gunk your home gets, since it’s not possible to clean.)

It can be really unsafe, and extreme hoarding can threaten the structural integrity of your home. At some point, for your dad’s safety or the safety of anyone else in.the home, authorities might need to get involved. There was an incident a little while ago in our town where an ambulance was called to a hoarder house and the house was impossible to navigate. I believe they eventually got the person out who needed help, but the house got condemned as a result because it wasn’t safe to live in.

It’s sad to say this but i’m 30, i have so many issues in my life which have slowed me down, it’s sad but i guess these circumstances have opened the door to my venture into Christianity.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I frequently reflect on how spoiled I am, and am grateful for my lifestyle. We are retired, yet have sufficient income to afford to live comfortably, if not luxuriously. We have a nice house (too big now for us), a late model car, an old pickup truck, a computer, iPad, TV, A/C, eat out once a week, sometimes more, take small trips and occasional longer ones, have enough to eat, clothes to wear, etc. Sometimes I wonder why God allows me to live like this when others are so poor and even destitute. We do try to help others in need, and I have a great parish and many friends.

Growing up we were poor and did not have much so I am somewhat amazed when I count my blessings today at how much things have changed for me.

But my biggest blessing is my family–my husband, children, grandchildren, and other relatives. The two granddaughters are visiting now and we have been able to take them to various places, including an amusement park and a lake, and spoil them with their favorite foods, etc. I am so grateful for our time together and although we both have medical problems, we are independent and mobile and able to enjoy our retirement… God has been so good to us.

 

[gatorsmom]

Fortunately, not all traditionalist communities are alike.

Dh and I are traditionalist Catholics. We both traveled with our jobs before we got married at the age of 28. I gave up working because I wanted to stay home with my kids (my choice) but I have friends who continued with their careers and put their kids in daycare. Their kids were never clingy and shy like mine and they grew up believing women are just as strong and smart as men because they saw their mothers work. I think their choices worked just fine for them and mine are working for me.

We have 4 kids but I don’t want more though I’m not doing anything artificial to prevent more. If I had more I’d welcome them with love. But 4 kids are a lot of work and I’m already stretched thin. I get a ton of help- mothers helpers (just neighborhood girls) to babysit so I can grocery shop in peace, date nights on the weekends with Dh, we subscribe to a blue apron meal service, i get my groceries delivered, we have iPads and we take expensive trips to Europe every summer. But we also donate large sums of money to our parish and diocese. I’m on the Board of Directors for a local Catholic Charity. Dh is on the parish finance council. Our sons are active alter servers in the Latin mass. All of our children go to a Catholic classical academy. I don’t wear a veil to church but think it’s nice when I see women who choose to.

We are conservative but we definitely don’t fit in the poor, barefoot and pregnant with a hundred children stereotype. And in our community there are families who are trying their best to adhere to the church’s rules and put God first in their life and yet they don’t fit into the conservative stereotypes either. Ignore those who judge, in fact feel sorry for them because we know what happens to those who judge. . Do everything you can to do God’s will and enough blessings will come to you that you can brush off the negative comments. THANK GOD the old days are over.

I like what Gertabelle said, “Yes, follow the teachings of the Church. And don’t worry about all that other stuff.” Amen

 

[pianistclare]

Fortunately, not all traditionalist communities are alike.

Dh and I are traditionalist Catholics. We both traveled with our jobs before we got married at the age of 28. I gave up working because I wanted to stay home with my kids (my choice) but I have friends who continued with their careers and put their kids in daycare. Their kids were never clingy and shy like mine and they grew up believing women are just as strong and smart as men because they saw their mothers work. I think their choices worked just fine for them and mine are working for me.

We have 4 kids but I don’t want more though I’m not doing anything artificial to prevent more. If I had more I’d welcome them with love. But 4 kids are a lot of work and I’m already stretched thin. I get a ton of help- mothers helpers (just neighborhood girls) to babysit so I can grocery shop in peace, date nights on the weekends with Dh, we subscribe to a blue apron meal service, i get my groceries delivered, we have iPads and we take expensive trips to Europe every summer. But we also donate large sums of money to our parish and diocese. I’m on the Board of Directors for a local Catholic Charity. Dh is on the parish finance council. Our sons are active alter servers in the Latin mass. All of our children go to a Catholic classical academy. I don’t wear a veil to church but think it’s nice when I see women who choose to.

We are conservative but we definitely don’t fit in the poor, barefoot and pregnant with a hundred children stereotype. And in our community there are families who are trying their best to adhere to the church’s rules and put God first in their life and yet they don’t fit into the conservative stereotypes either. Ignore those who judge, in fact feel sorry for them because we know what happens to those who judge. . Do everything you can to do God’s will and enough blessings will come to you that you can brush off the negative comments. THANK GOD the old days are over.

I like what Gertabelle said, “Yes, follow the teachings of the Church. And don’t worry about all that other stuff.” Amen

???
I think maybe you might have meant this for a different thread?
What am I missing? Sorry

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Thanks everyone for all the replies! I must admit many of them made me re-consider my own way of living. It is certainly true that even the “poor” in the US have many luxuries compared to the poor in 90% of the world. Although I would point out that actually, cell phones have become pretty common in “third world” countries as well, apparently much of the time it is cheaper to build a cell phone tower than to actually invest in traditional land lines, and phones can be charged using solar energy.

But certainly the points about access to reliable electricity, running water, sewer systems, food that is safe to eat, etc. are true. I know people who have “roughed it” living in the wilds of Alaska without any running water, reliant on outhouses, and having to drive into town every week to not only use the Laundromat for clothes washing, but for their weekly shower as well (yes, many Laundromats in Alaska offer showers as well). I can’t imagine myself being able to do even that. So yes, I admit to being spoiled.

It’s also the case that most people in my income bracket live much more “luxuriously” than me, and some even overspend their incomes. So perhaps that has skewed my outlook. On the other hand I have noticed some Catholics are constantly second-guessing themselves, such as the poster who recently wondered if it was a sin to buy a home if she could get by with renting, and asked if it would be better to wait until home prices go down. She seemed to see buying a home not as savvy stewardship of her assets, but as indulging in an optional luxury and therefore placing herself in near occasion of sin.

I have also noticed an idea that essentially, Catholics should just have as many kids as possible and not even use NFP, and that the only acceptable use is if pregnancy will definitely kill the mother, or make the family destitute and homeless. And those who actually plan their families other than for such extreme reasons, are sinning, selfish, using NFP with a “contraceptive mentality”, should never have married, etc. Many Catholics who believe that most are called to Providentialism, what many non-Catholics would call the “quiverfull” life, seem to identify as Traditionalist.

So pianistclare, I am not surprised that a Traditionalist poster would reply to me.

Fortunately, not all traditionalist communities are alike.

Dh and I are traditionalist Catholics. We both traveled with our jobs before we got married at the age of 28. I gave up working because I wanted to stay home with my kids (my choice) but I have friends who continued with their careers and put their kids in daycare. Their kids were never clingy and shy like mine and they grew up believing women are just as strong and smart as men because they saw their mothers work. I think their choices worked just fine for them and mine are working for me.

We have 4 kids but I don’t want more though I’m not doing anything artificial to prevent more. If I had more I’d welcome them with love. But 4 kids are a lot of work and I’m already stretched thin. I get a ton of help- mothers helpers (just neighborhood girls) to babysit so I can grocery shop in peace, date nights on the weekends with Dh, we subscribe to a blue apron meal service, i get my groceries delivered, we have iPads and we take expensive trips to Europe every summer. But we also donate large sums of money to our parish and diocese. I’m on the Board of Directors for a local Catholic Charity. Dh is on the parish finance council. Our sons are active alter servers in the Latin mass. All of our children go to a Catholic classical academy. I don’t wear a veil to church but think it’s nice when I see women who choose to.

Thank you for your testimony! I find it refreshing that you do not feel compelled to put down the choices of others in order to justify your own – something that, sadly, happens very often on CAF, from both sides of the “big vs. small family” or “homeschool vs traditional school” or “SAHM vs WM” divide.

We are conservative but we definitely don’t fit in the poor, barefoot and pregnant with a hundred children stereotype. And in our community there are families who are trying their best to adhere to the church’s rules and put God first in their life and yet they don’t fit into the conservative stereotypes either. Ignore those who judge, in fact feel sorry for them because we know what happens to those who judge. . Do everything you can to do God’s will and enough blessings will come to you that you can brush off the negative comments. THANK GOD the old days are over.

I like what Gertabelle said, “Yes, follow the teachings of the Church. And don’t worry about all that other stuff.” Amen

Thank you also for clarifying that much of these life choices are NOT the same as “official Church teaching that all Catholics have to follow, otherwise be guilty of sinning”.

 

[Xantippe]

Thanks everyone for all the replies! I must admit many of them made me re-consider my own way of living. It is certainly true that even the “poor” in the US have many luxuries compared to the poor in 90% of the world. **Although I would point out that actually, cell phones have become pretty common in “third world” countries as well, apparently much of the time it is cheaper to build a cell phone tower than to actually invest in traditional land lines, and phones can be charged using solar energy. **

[snip]

It’s also the case that most people in my income bracket live much more “luxuriously” than me, and some even overspend their incomes. So perhaps that has skewed my outlook. On the other hand I have noticed some Catholics are constantly second-guessing themselves, such as the poster who recently wondered if it was a sin to buy a home if she could get by with renting, and asked if it would be better to wait until home prices go down. She seemed to see buying a home not as savvy stewardship of her assets, but as indulging in an optional luxury and therefore placing herself in near occasion of sin.

I have also noticed an idea that essentially, Catholics should just have as many kids as possible and not even use NFP, and that the only acceptable use is if pregnancy will definitely kill the mother, or make the family destitute and homeless. And those who actually plan their families other than for such extreme reasons, are sinning, selfish, using NFP with a “contraceptive mentality”, should never have married, etc. Many Catholics who believe that most are called to Providentialism, what many non-Catholics would call the “quiverfull” life, seem to identify as Traditionalist.

That’s a very good point about cell phones. I lived in Russia in the mid-90s and it was unusual to have a landline. (A lot of times, to make or receive a telephone call, you’d go to the telephone center to do so.) Some people I knew had landlines and some didn’t. But then BOOM the cell phone revolution came just a few years later, and suddenly cell phones are all over. Cell phone infrastructure is just much simpler.

It is somewhat misleading when people aren’t actually living within their incomes. So we can’t really say, if you can afford X you could afford Y, when the truth is that they can’t afford X, either.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

That’s a very good point about cell phones. I lived in Russia in the mid-90s and it was unusual to have a landline. (A lot of times, to make or receive a telephone call, you’d go to the telephone center to do so.) Some people I knew had landlines and some didn’t. But then BOOM the cell phone revolution came just a few years later, and suddenly cell phones are all over. Cell phone infrastructure is just much simpler.

I recall there being “call centers” in the 1990s marketed toward immigrants who would visit them to make cheap phone calls back to their “home countries” as such centers charged rates that were much cheaper than those charged by the landline phone companies. I also recall “prepaid phone cards” being a hot commodity as well. But they have essentially disappeared, as have “pay phones”, NYC recently installed Internet kiosks on street corners instead.

I am not sure if a cell phone, even a “smart phone” can, therefore, be considered a “luxury” item. NYC (I think, though I’m not 100% sure) also recently announced that government websites would be updated to be more smart phone friendly; and also noted one of the reasons for that, was because many of the poor who get services can only afford to access the Internet via smart phone, not a desktop, laptop, or tablet.

Most Millenials either don’t have landline service at all or buy the cheapest plan possible just for emergency backup. I personally still have a “landline” but I actually have it through my cable company, as Verizon “customer service” in my area is terrible. I won’t be surprised if people eventually consider landlines to be expensive luxury items that only the rich, and older Luddites who can’t figure out how to use cell phones, bother to pay for.

I do think the definition of “luxury” can shift with the times. Before the printing press, books were certainly luxury items, owned only by the very wealthy, although many Protestants who otherwise are nostalgic for the good ol’ days and hold onto an idea of a simplistic “true Church” that was corrupted by “the pagan Roman Catholics” seem to also envision everyone carrying their own Bible around back then, even though that would be wildly anachronistic.

Most devout Christians these days (both Catholic and Christian) own not one, but several Bibles. Extremely luxurious when compared to the past.

And of course, in many places, an automobile is a requirement for survival, although they started out as a dangerous hobby for the idle rich.

It is somewhat misleading when people aren’t actually living within their incomes. So we can’t really say, if you can afford X you could afford Y, when the truth is that they can’t afford X, either.

That is one reason I think this “modernist Catholics are selfishly using NFP in a contraceptive manner, and lazy husbands are forcing their wives to work, just so they can afford luxury items” argument is, for the most part, a strawman.

 

[Xantippe]

**I am not sure if a cell phone, even a “smart phone” can, therefore, be considered a “luxury” item. ** NYC (I think, though I’m not 100% sure) also recently announced that government websites would be updated to be more smart phone friendly; and also noted one of the reasons for that, was because many of the poor who get services can only afford to access the Internet via smart phone, not a desktop, laptop, or tablet.

**Most Millenials either don’t have landline service at all or buy the cheapest plan possible just for emergency backup. **I personally still have a “landline” but I actually have it through my cable company, as Verizon “customer service” in my area is terrible. I won’t be surprised if people eventually consider landlines to be expensive luxury items that only the rich, and older Luddites who can’t figure out how to use cell phones, bother to pay for.

**I do think the definition of “luxury” can shift with the times. ** Before the printing press, books were certainly luxury items, owned only by the very wealthy, although many Protestants who otherwise are nostalgic for the good ol’ days and hold onto an idea of a simplistic “true Church” that was corrupted by “the pagan Roman Catholics” seem to also envision everyone carrying their own Bible around back then, even though that would be wildly anachronistic.

Those are very interesting points:

–It is true that there’s more and more the expectation from the powers that be that you will be able to do stuff online, and that you will jump through the online process. I can’t even imagine trying to cope with school stuff without good internet access, because you’re continually being asked to do stuff online.
–As I’ve pointed out before, there are no longer phone booths everywhere. So if you’re stranded, you can’t just walk to the nearest public phone and drop a quarter in–there is no public phone. Hence, parents’ concern that teens and young adults have cell phones.
–That is funny about Luddites and landlines. We keep a cheap landline just in case, but I can easily see us going without. My husband occasionally is able to reach me via that line when he can’t get me otherwise, but it’s mainly a device for the convenience of telemarketers. Nobody besides my husband and me knows the telephone number for the landline.
–I think you’re right about “luxury” shifting back and forth with the times. For example, we have gone from days when household help was cheap and things were expensive to the modern day, where things are cheap and household help is often considered a luxury.

 

[pensmama87]

Those are very interesting points:

–It is true that there’s more and more the expectation from the powers that be that you will be able to do stuff online, and that you will jump through the online process. I can’t even imagine trying to cope with school stuff without good internet access, because you’re continually being asked to do stuff online.
–As I’ve pointed out before, there are no longer phone booths everywhere. So if you’re stranded, you can’t just walk to the nearest public phone and drop a quarter in–there is no public phone. Hence, parents’ concern that teens and young adults have cell phones.
–That is funny about Luddites and landlines. We keep a cheap landline just in case, but I can easily see us going without. My husband occasionally is able to reach me via that line when he can’t get me otherwise, but it’s mainly a device for the convenience of telemarketers. Nobody besides my husband and me knows the telephone number for the landline.
–I think you’re right about “luxury” shifting back and forth with the times. For example, we have gone from days when household help was cheap and things were expensive to the modern day, where things are cheap and household help is often considered a luxury.

A few years ago we got a bundle plan with landline service because it was cheaper than just TV and Internet (probably so the phone company could sell our number, TBH. ) But anytime we had to give a number to anyone we wouldn’t receive urgent calls from, that’s the number we gave! I turned the ringer off and checked the voicemail every couple of days. It wasn’t a bad system, really.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Those are very interesting points:

–It is true that there’s more and more the expectation from the powers that be that you will be able to do stuff online, and that you will jump through the online process. I can’t even imagine trying to cope with school stuff without good internet access, because you’re continually being asked to do stuff online.
–As I’ve pointed out before, there are no longer phone booths everywhere. So if you’re stranded, you can’t just walk to the nearest public phone and drop a quarter in–there is no public phone. Hence, parents’ concern that teens and young adults have cell phones.

I actually prefer using online sites to navigating endless automated phone menus, most of the time I manage to eventually get to a real person by stubbornly pushing “0” or stating “Representative” over and over, but that could be 10-15 minutes or more.

And usually kids who don’t have cell phones wind up “borrowing” their friends cell phones to call their parents. Similar to how the Amish borrow the landlines of their “English” neighbors – or did, anyway. As I have heard many Amish now have cell phones and do not consider them to go against their beliefs for whatever reason.

That doesn’t mean I agree with giving, say, a 2 year old a smart phone, just that in this day and age, I don’t think basic cell service is an optional luxury.

–That is funny about Luddites and landlines. We keep a cheap landline just in case, but I can easily see us going without. My husband occasionally is able to reach me via that line when he can’t get me otherwise, but it’s mainly a device for the convenience of telemarketers. Nobody besides my husband and me knows the telephone number for the landline.
–I think you’re right about “luxury” shifting back and forth with the times. For example, we have gone from days when household help was cheap and things were expensive to the modern day, where things are cheap and household help is often considered a luxury.

And speaking of Luddites, much as Industrial Revolution tech displaced many farm workers, we are apparently getting to the point that automated kiosks are going to replace at least some of those “may I take your order” fast food jobs that are currently filled by “unskilled” workers – including those protesting for a $15/hour minimum wage. Well that didn’t exactly go the way they expected.

Though I’m sure the kiosks would have been implemented even if the workers didn’t demand such a wage – I have already seen them at some deli counters. People simply place their orders via the kiosk, instead of “taking a number” and waiting for the counter person to take the order.

There’s also this idea that children should NOT be forced to perform household help for free, but should be “allowed to be kids” for as long as possible. The Dr. Sears aficionados would likely have conniptions over the idea of a 8 year old working in a factory, or in the fields. Yet that was SOP for much of history; and I mentioned the fields so people wouldn’t say “but the Industrial Revolution was the beginning of the end of the Traditional Family”!

 

[DarkLight]

Those are very interesting points:

–It is true that there’s more and more the expectation from the powers that be that you will be able to do stuff online, and that you will jump through the online process. I can’t even imagine trying to cope with school stuff without good internet access, because you’re continually being asked to do stuff online.

Many jobs are also advertised mostly online. Maybe not so much the bare-bones ones, but those that are one step above. I’d say my call center job falls into that category, and they pretty much tell you to apply online and operate by email.

 

[gatorsmom]

Thank you also for clarifying that much of these life choices are NOT the same as “official Church teaching that all Catholics have to follow, otherwise be guilty of sinning”.

The church’s rules provide a beautiful framework to protect us, guide us, and lead us and our families to holiness. But they allow us so much room to make choices and decisions unique to each of our families. Once we know the church’s rules and understand them, we don’t need to second guess our decisions. And whenever I have a doubt, I can discuss it with my confessor, plan accordingly and move forward. Thank you, Jesus, for your infinite love for us and mercy! Again, don’t give a second thought to people who will try to make you feel bad. Just pray for them.

 

[Xantippe]

Many jobs are also advertised mostly online. Maybe not so much the bare-bones ones, but those that are one step above. I’d say my call center job falls into that category, and they pretty much tell you to apply online and operate by email.

Yep.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s another example of a common thing turning into a luxury: fresh food delivery.

Back in the good old days, there was a lot of neighborhood delivery of perishables: ice, meat, milk, etc. That was just normal.

But nowadays, fresh food delivery is very la-di-da because the “normal” way to get a gallon of milk is to get in a car, drive to the store, buy the milk, and drive it home.

Ditto farmers’ markets–outdoor markets where you buy produce are the norm in much of the world, but it’s somehow turned into a trendy hipster thing to do.

Ditto also hunting and fishing. I realize that there are people who may break even on it, but for a lot of guys, it’s a** very** expensive hobby.

Keeping horses, also.

And ditto doctor house calls. It’s still normal in some parts of the world (for example, France), but at this point, having a doctor come to your home would be viewed as a very expensive indulgence in the US for an average person.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Here’s another example of a common thing turning into a luxury: fresh food delivery.

Back in the good old days, there was a lot of neighborhood delivery of perishables: ice, meat, milk, etc. That was just normal.

But nowadays, fresh food delivery is very la-di-da because the “normal” way to get a gallon of milk is to get in a car, drive to the store, buy the milk, and drive it home.

Ditto farmers’ markets–outdoor markets where you buy produce are the norm in much of the world, but it’s somehow turned into a trendy hipster thing to do.

Same with “CEAs” where you get a delivery of a box of produce. Although I do recall shopping at farmer’s markets since I was young, way before it was “hip”. Though, okay, at first it was my mother who actually did the shopping.

But I think the obsession with organic produce many hipsters have these days, is certainly a great example because before pesticides were invented, organic produce was, well, just ordinary produce. No one expected to score points in the Mommy Wars by providing them to their kids.

Also, it may just be where I live, but I recall going to actual “grocery stores” when I was a child. They specialized in mostly fruits and vegetables, a wide variety of them. They did sell some meats, dairy, and nonperishable foods and some household items as well, but these were not their main line of business. But little by little, such “mom and pop” stores went away and were replaced by the chain supermarkets not to mention Super Walmart, Target, etc.

The only “grocery store” still in business in my parents’ neighborhood only survived by opening a “salad bar” that has taken over most of the store’s real estate as it is very popular with locals. The store still sells produce but a much smaller selection and it’s obviously not the main source of profit for them anymore.

Ditto also hunting and fishing. I realize that there are people who may break even on it, but for a lot of guys, it’s a** very** expensive hobby.

Keeping horses, also.

And ditto doctor house calls. It’s still normal in some parts of the world (for example, France), but at this point, having a doctor come to your home would be viewed as a very expensive indulgence in the US for an average person.

Well, there are special programs for housebound seniors that do feature house calls and don’t have any extra cost for the senior than it would for them to brave a trip to the doctor’s office. But certainly a “house call” would be a luxury for the average citizen.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I just spent about 2 months with no running water in the kitchen due to a leak.

And almost a month I think with no refrigerator except for a mini one that I use for extra containers of milk, etc.

It’s amazing how you take it for granted that you can buy milk, and keep it cold for a few days and it still tastes fresh.

I guess that’s why in the past, milk was transformed into nice tasty things like cheese and yogurts.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Here’s another example of a common thing turning into a luxury: fresh food delivery.

Back in the good old days, there was a lot of neighborhood delivery of perishables: ice, meat, milk, etc. That was just normal.

But nowadays, fresh food delivery is very la-di-da because the “normal” way to get a gallon of milk is to get in a car, drive to the store, buy the milk, and drive it home.

Ditto farmers’ markets–outdoor markets where you buy produce are the norm in much of the world, but it’s somehow turned into a trendy hipster thing to do.

Ditto also hunting and fishing. I realize that there are people who may break even on it, but for a lot of guys, it’s a** very** expensive hobby.

Keeping horses, also.

And ditto doctor house calls. It’s still normal in some parts of the world (for example, France), but at this point, having a doctor come to your home would be viewed as a very expensive indulgence in the US for an average person.

I remember house calls!

I remember them occasionally as a little girl.

When the youngest was born premature, I did get nurse visits, and Social Worker visits.

The nurse visits were to make sure he continued to gain weight.

Social worker was to make sure he met milestones.

Also PT happened at home. Which was good.

 

[Xantippe]

I just spent about 2 months with no running water in the kitchen due to a leak.

And almost a month I think with no refrigerator except for a mini one that I use for extra containers of milk, etc.

It’s amazing how you take it for granted that you can buy milk, and keep it cold for a few days and it still tastes fresh.

I guess that’s why in the past, milk was transformed into nice tasty things like cheese and yogurts.

Indeed.

 

[Peebo]

Having 2 Basset Hounds is pure luxury

 

[Xantippe]

Having 2 Basset Hounds is pure luxury

Would four be more luxurious or less?