Do you notice this? Orthodox tend to distance themselves from Catholicism, while Catholics

[twf]

Yet many do. Its well known that Melkite Greek Catholics and Antiochian Orthodox inter-commune on a regular basis. There are many Orthodox Christians who regularly attend Liturgy at the local Melkite mission (and receive Sunday after Sunday) just because there isn’t an Arabic language Orthodox liturgy in the area… they choose the Arabic language Catholic liturgy over the many Greek/Russian/etc. Orthodox liturgies nearby.

 

[Augustinian]

I don’t feel any hatred at all from our Orthodox friends at all. In fact here in Pittsburgh, the Serbian Orthodox has a great fish fry on Lenten Fridays which caters to Roman Catholics. I don’t think they do the fried fish thing on Fridays in Lent themselves, do they?

Their viewpoint, from what I’ve seen, is that they see themselves as a “3rd way” and equidistant from Protestants and Catholics. No particular hate to any of the non-Orthodox churches.

I can respect that.

 

[Reuben_J]

I agree. History did much to divide and separate us. This is always my position with regards to the schism with the Orthodox Church, which today makes it difficult for unity.

However, argument on this will not bring to any conclusion. Our Church Fathers would have gone through all these no doubt. The clergy, the laity and the secular government were pretty much various factors which were in opposition to each other.

 

[Wesrock]

…While Catholics tend to relate their faith to Eastern Orthodoxy.

For example, a Catholic may say “Orthodox also believe in Mary’s holiness, so they are close to us in our understanding of the Immaculate Conception.”

While an Orthodox may say “Catholics are different; we do not accept the Immaculate Conception.”

When I read through Catholic apologetics, it seems outreach and appeal to Eastern Christianity is often used as illustration of commonality. But many Orthodox sources I see emphasize the “orthodoxy” of the Eastern Orthodox Church compared to the “errors” of Catholicism.

Is this just my bias and sensitivity as a Catholic? Or do you notice this too? What could be the reasons?

Coincidence, but reading what you said, we’re both living up to the temperaments out “names” (Catholic vs Orthodox) suggest. At least, in stereotypes, which may not always be fair.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Agreed; If the total Church can free themselves from secular powers including be free from Islam. Imagine how God’s Love would cover the earth.Yet these evil powers and principalities, Peter and the body of Christ must battle against.

My prayer, just once. For all Orthodox Bishop’s and Latin Bishop’s with the Pope cloistered themselves behind locked doors, while all the earth pray the rosary until they hear from God and settle their schism without interference from secular powers.
I believe God would separate the sheeps from the goats once again or expose the false shepherds.

 

[2towers]

The Orthodox Russian Church is freed and supported by the present secular Russian powers in Putin himself.

Yes and as of late, he seems to be shortening the leash he has them on. Very sad.

 

[NuclearReceptor]

Hmm…I would like to think both Catholic and Orthodox saints occupy the same space in heaven…perhaps wondering how trivial the differences are/were in the grand scheme of eternity.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Hmm…I would like to think both Catholic and Orthodox saints occupy the same space in heaven…perhaps wondering how trivial the differences are/were in the grand scheme of eternity.

Upon reflecting your comment here; I think your on to something here.I have heard many Latin scholars speak publicly of a bridge, that is lacking in the Church, that would allow communion between the East and West. Although, I have yet to hear any Orthodox leaders ever speak of such a bridge that can unite us in communion.
Both East and West liturgies become present with the Church Triumphant in heaven. Your “trivia” commentary may be the crack in the wall that can allow light to both the East and West.
Not to change the discussion here. Instead of dwelling so much attention on ecclesial and disciplinary matters between East and West. I would side with the Latin scholars and look for a solution that can bridge both communions.
In the heavenly Liturgy, Jesus our King presides with the Holy Saints and Martyrs (including my Mom and Dad, had to get that in), why can’t the Church Militant grow, develop in a more mature and profound faith, that places our one Liturgy in communion with the Church Triumphant.
It should be in our Liturgies, or Liturgy, where all things secular and carnal are left outside, where we can celebrate one Liturgy where Christ our King Present supersedes any and all silly tensions and divisions about Peter’s authority on earth.
I would like to see, Orthodox posters reach out and give their insights about building a bridge for our communions, without complaining about each other’s expression of faith and the Bishop’s of Rome constant battle to keep the whole Church free from secular powers infecting her. When most Orthodox leaders tend to side with their secular powers over the Bishop of Rome.
Sorry for the long “trivia” response, oh, and thank you for your post. It gives me something to pray for, A bridge, who is Jesus.

 

[dochawk]

For all Orthodox Bishop’s and Latin Bishop’s with the Pope cloistered themselves behind locked doors, while all the earth pray the rosary

So for unity of east and west, all should use a distinctly western private devotion, rather than their own?

hawk

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

So for unity of east and west, all should use a distinctly western private devotion, rather than their own?

Not quite. But such suggestions should not come across as negative, but a concern.
I don’t pretend to have the answer. The Liturgical Bridge, which is on the radar among Latin scholars, should take into consideration such concerns as yours.
To make a suggestion, the bridge Liturgy should entail focus with the Church Triumphant present when both the heavenly and earthly liturgical prayer is focused on the King of King’s and Lord of Lord’s.
I believe in such a liturgical setting celebrated not every Sunday, maybe once a year or defined time, when all things carnal, including schism tensions and authority tensions pro or con, would have no place within a bridged liturgy.
No One Church should be pretending that each Church owns their own liturgy when the Liturgy is God ordained.
The bridge would encompass the details of the Liturgy, which can never change, what God has ordained, but our Faith can grow and develop more fully, with a mature faith that does not allow carnal spats and disciplines to get in the way.
What is your suggestion? Or do you not consider one?

 

[dochawk]

For a liturgy, no, but expecting both to use an observance of one seems off.

Personally, I expect it to come from the Orthodox (probably with Melkite support), as the laity refuse to continue participating in schism. We already see this in some of the church pairs.

Or some smart-aleck synod will elect a leader from the other side of the schism.

Or the Russian church has a trend and new leaders who support unity over nationalism (at which point Rome and Constantinople could probably shepard the rest and solve it in weeks . .)

hawk

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

I am doing all I can to refrain from using scripture here.

Maturity in faith, is what the bridge is calling for.

To remove that which stunt’s the faith in God, which prevents faith in God from maturing, developing and growing in our faith in One God, the blessed Trinity.

So long as one remains stagnant in faith, without attempting to have faith in the things that are not impossible for God who loves us and is present among us.

That is where the bridge would be welcoming. Maybe it should start with the Laity, so that the hardness of the hearts that live today from our forefathers will either die or be moved by the Spirit to unity, if at all? an ecumenical spirit on both sides of the heart, is what the bridge begs for.

 

[ziapueblo]

Catholicism does embrace the east. There are 23 eastern Churches in communion with Rome. These Churches are not Roman with an eastern feel. They have the same theology, liturgy and spiritual life as the Orthodox. As a matter of fact, we are called to be Orthodox in communion with Rome.

What the Orthodox say on paper and what goes on in the local Church varies. I had a Greek Orthodox priest tell me that “we (Catholic and Orthodox) are the same Church.”

Peace,
ZP

 

[adgloriam]

Personally I had little knowledge about the Orthodox before joining CAF and meeting them here. The US has a completely different view on them because of the sizeable and varied communities that emigrated there (this historically also lead to a brief “jurisdiction battle” over bishops and dioceses with the latin church - which I find to be a very interesting episode, since in Europe the “jurisdictions” went along with old national borders.)

So (personally) the perspective in perhaps most countries -that don’t have the privilege of direct contact- is that the Orthodox are our brethren and ecumenism is the way to go. Anything beyond that makes for an “expert debate” that is mostly beyond the laity. The priests are off course obligated to know these things should they find themselves before orthodox faithful. But other than that, it’s a “non-issue” in the sense that no conflict of polemic is to arise among the faithful.

And I am rather surprised when I find certain “articles” wanting to cast these issues into question when those are mostly matters to be addressed between bishops and patriarchs at the highest level.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

That is good news to hear from across the pond.
I have a question for you.
Do you ever experience any anti- Roman Catholic rhetoric coming from the Orthodox Church’s?
How do you engage in ecumenical efforts, when you have implied " most countries -that don’t have the privilege of direct contact"? Or maybe I missed your point?

I find this to be the case in the U.S. It appears the Orthodox both laity and religious, engage in voicing their anti-Roman Catholic views, and tend to side with Protestant Christians when it comes to the Bishop of Rome and how the Latin Rite has defended her Catholic Apostolic faith against heresies and heretics in the West. For example the “Filioque”.

As per the OP. I do find the Orthodox distancing themselves from Catholicism, when it comes to their personal attacks against the Bishop’s of Rome and how we Latin Catholic’s express our One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith. The Orthodox tend to find common ground with Protestantism in this respect.

 

[Roguish]

Many Roman Catholics are somewhat attracted to the more conservative approach that Orthodoxy has taken, and are perhaps slightly envious of it. Roman Catholics therefore would like to somehow “be close” to Orthodoxy, and therefore tend to think and speak of it as “that other form of Catholicism that is only slightly different”. By and large the Orthodox, however, see no reason to envy the RC Church, feel no need to “be close” to it, and therefore see no need to downplay the differences, which they consider to be quite big. (Which is not to say that the Orthodox aren’t friendly toward RC members – they are.)

In other words, a traditional-leaning RC member is typically more desirous of becoming a little more Orthodox than the typical Orthodox is desirous of becoming more Roman. Hence the difference in their acknowledgment of “commonality”.

 

[adgloriam]

I have a question for you.

From across the pond: I don’t !! Not a single time yet !!To the contrary, me being catholic and them being orthodox always made for an additional point in common.

I would say, however: that the orthodox being mostly from eastern Europe (here) tend to come with a heavy “iron curtain” baggage and from what I have read that reflects on some of their positions with divisions originating in politics overflowing over into religion. Indeed, I have read some older articles written by their churches which emphasized differing views from Rome.

Again, from personal experience, I have nothing but good to say of them.

[And yes, I did meet a lot of anti-catholic protestants and their propaganda and I don’t appreciate that. In fact, some of the most savage anti-catholic bigotry I’ve seen can be traced back to US protestant missionaries that came to Europe/South America (some Dutch I have found also notorious at this).]

 

[dochawk]

Do you ever experience any anti- Roman Catholic rhetoric coming from the Orthodox Church’s?

I’ve actually never met an anti-Catholic Orthodox in person. (OK, a couple of EC who went off the rails and “doxed”, but . . .)

Typical was a client who noted my tribar lapel pin and asked if I was Orthodox. When I responded that I was Eastern Catholic, he shrugged and said, “same thing.”

When my son in law was on a construction site and was being given grief, a couple of Russian Orthodox made it “clear” to the troublemakers that he was one of them and would be protected as such.

I see far more hostility towards Orthodox from Catholics–and pompous and triumphal lack of charity is one of the biggest problems on this site (and led to me leaving several times over the years). (for that matter, if this site was all I had to go on, and I was coming to Christianity from the outside, I would probably end up Orthodox)

hawk

 

[alice24]

I see far more hostility towards Orthodox from Catholics–and pompous and triumphal lack of charity is one of the biggest problems on this site (and led to me leaving several times over the years). (for that matter, if this site was all I had to go on, and I was coming to Christianity from the outside, I would probably end up Orthodox)

Same here. I can just say, please don´t leave. I thought of it some days ago, too, and decided against because mainly of some people here praying for me. You are definately a gift for this forum.

 

[Augustinian]

Typical was a client who noted my tribar lapel pin and asked if I was Orthodox. When I responded that I was Eastern Catholic, he shrugged and said, “same thing.”

Even here in Pittsburgh, the city with Eastern Catholic hierarchy in residence and thousands migrating here from Eastern Catholic homelands to work in industry., a lot of people get EO and EC mixed up. I was chatting in the lunchroom a dozen years ago with a woman coworker of Ukrainian Catholic background and a male coworker identified her as “eastern orthodox”. Couldn’t correct him either, he had standing as a CCD teacher.