Do you place as much emphasis on His Eucharist as you do the Bible?

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rcwitness said:
So while we rely on the Spirit which gives life, we acknowledge that the mighty struggle and suffering of Christ’s body and blood were necessary for us to walk in the Spirit.
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That is why He said “this do in remembrance of me.”
 
JonNC said:
The Lutheran view is that the Eucharist is the real and substantial body and blood of Christ, given and shed for the remission of sin. It is a means of grace. To place a means of grace in a position less than the word of God creates a false dichotomy. It isn’t word or sacrament, or sacrament or word. It is word and sacrament.

Jon
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I’ll ask again:
Was the Last Supper propitiatory?
Is the wrath of God appeased at Communion?

I say “no”
what do you say?

If you don’t know, you can say that:
but I’m asking with all respect and sincerity, please don’t just ignore the questions.
thanks
 
alwayswill said:
I’ll ask again:
Was the Last Supper propitiatory?
Is the wrath of God appeased at Communion?

I say “no”
what do you say?

If you don’t know, you can say that:
but I’m asking with all respect and sincerity, please don’t just ignore the questions.
thanks
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Matthew 26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you;for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom."
That’s not Propitiatory to you?
 
rcwitness said:
Matthew 26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”**And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you;*for this is my blood of theecovenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.*I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom."
That’s not Propitiatory to you?
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Then why go to the Cross?
Seriously : if the wrath of God was appeased at the Last Supper:
then in the context of the forgiveness of sins: why go to the Cross?

is Romas 3 about the Last supper or the Cross?
For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith
 
alwayswill said:
Then why go to the Cross?
Seriously : if the wrath of God was appeased at the Last Supper:
then in the context of the forgiveness of sins: why go to the Cross?

is Romas 3 about the Last supper or the Cross?
For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith
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Grace
 
Wannano said:
That is why He said “this do in remembrance of me.”
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From Wiki:
Anamnesis
(Christianity)
In a wider sense, Anamnesis is a key concept in the liturgical theology: in worship the faithful recall God’s saving deeds. This memorial aspect is not simply a passive process but one by which the Christian can actually enter into the Paschal mystery.
 
alwayswill said:
got i t: an un-merited favor: we don’t deserve to have our sins forgiven
Was the wrath of God appeased on the Cross or at the Last Supper?
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I don’t know because i don’t understand your question. It sounds like you want me to say the Cross is it and finished. I know protestants who think this. I on the other hand believe we have a responsibility to God that doesn’t end with just believing. Faith without works is dead.
I hope this makes sense
 
alwayswill said:
Then why go to the Cross?
Seriously : if the wrath of God was appeased at the Last Supper:
then in the context of the forgiveness of sins: why go to the Cross?
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What do you mean “go to the cross” did you go there? How?

You keep implying that Jesus suffered at the Last Supper. 🤷
 
alwayswill said:
got i t: an un-merited favor: we don’t deserve to have our sins forgiven
Was the wrath of God appeased on the Cross or at the Last Supper?
Click to expand...
The Lord’s Supper is NOT claiming to be the moment propitiation happened, but rather the perpetual offering of the Body and Blood of our Lord who was sacrificed at Calvary for the forgiveness of sins.
 
Look closely to this passage. Paul is revealing the sacrificial nature of the Lord’s Supper:

1 Corinthians 10

Therefore, my beloved, shun the worship of idols. I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. Consider the practice of Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar? What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

Paul likens the Lord’s Supper to a sacrificial offering on an altar!!!
 
1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.” “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”
 
alwayswill said:
I’ll ask again:
Was the Last Supper propitiatory?
Is the wrath of God appeased at Communion?

I say “no”
what do you say?

If you don’t know, you can say that:
but I’m asking with all respect and sincerity, please don’t just ignore the questions.
thanks
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I am not sure why you mentioned the ‘Last Supper’ as propitiatory because no Catholics would say this.

The last supper of Jesus is not the Eucharist; it is the first Eucharist. It should be celebrated as an Eucharist then, but Jesus had to show us what Eucharist entails and means, and he did that at the last supper.

However, what happened at the last supper is NOT what the Eucharist means.

The Eucharist is a sacrifice on Calvary where the Lamb of God was slain, sacrificed for the atonement of our sins.

The Eucharist can be paralleled to a passover meal which it is not. In the passover meal, a lamb was sacrificed and what did they do to the sacrificial lamb? They killed it and it was eaten. The lamb was eaten by the family. Thus the sacrifice was eaten, not thrown away.

Jesus showed us at the Last Supper, that his body and blood would be eaten and drank, but they did not eat and drank his body and blood respectively at the last supper. He was still alive, they did not killed him and ate his human body.

Jesus, by the last supper showed the apostles the foreshadow of what is to happen which is at Calvary.

The Eucharist is the sacrifice at the cross at Calvary.

As the sacrificial lamb had to be eaten, Jesus told us that his body has to be eaten so that we would have life, NOT his human body, that would be cannibalism, but his divine body. That was why he said the bread was his body - he was pointing to something that was to come.

Today in the Holy Eucharist, we just follow what Jesus asked us to to, so that we have life (eternal life).

I hope this is clear enough. I am sorry for the language if it is repetitive.
 
To all those who asked, YES THE EUCHARIST IS PROPITIATORY.

For recommended reading I recommend the books *A Key to the Doctrine of the Eucharist * by Vonier, and The Lamb’s Supper by Hahn.

You can also hear Hahn’s talk on the Fourth Cup, free online.
 
Duane1966 said:
To all those who asked, YES THE EUCHARIST IS PROPITIATORY.

For recommended reading I recommend the books *A Key to the Doctrine of the Eucharist * by Vonier, and The Lamb’s Supper by Hahn.

You can also hear Hahn’s talk on the Fourth Cup, free online.
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does that include the Last Supper ?
 
Duane1966 said:
To all those who asked, YES THE EUCHARIST IS PROPITIATORY.

For recommended reading I recommend the books *A Key to the Doctrine of the Eucharist * by Vonier, and The Lamb’s Supper by Hahn.

You can also hear Hahn’s talk on the Fourth Cup, free online.
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Yes, Scott Hann wrote a couple of books on the Eucharist. He explained it beautifully but perhaps will be understood better by Protestants because he used a lot of Biblical references in his explanation. I think this is where Protestants can identify with.

We are thankful that many ex-Protestant Catholics can contribute so much in explaining many doctrines in Catholicism. 👍
 
Reuben_J said:
I am not sure why you mentioned the ‘Last Supper’ as propitiatory because no Catholics would say this.

…
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I ask because that is what I am questioning
rcwitness said:
Matthew 26
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you;for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom."
That’s not Propitiatory to you?
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alwayswill said:
I ask because that is what I am questioning
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Of course.🙂

I think that was shortened and simplified too much.

The last supper which is the institution of the Eucharist (first Eucharist) is propitiatory in the sense that it is about the sacrifice at Calvary at the cross.

The last supper need to be explained, which I did, though I can never be as articulate as Scott Hann, but that is the gist of Eucharist.
 
Reuben_J said:
I am not sure why you mentioned the ‘Last Supper’ as propitiatory because no Catholics would say this.

The last supper of Jesus is not the Eucharist; it is the first Eucharist. It should be celebrated as an Eucharist then, but Jesus had to show us what Eucharist entails and means, and he did that at the last supper.

…
Click to expand...
Reuben_J said:
Of course.🙂

I think that was shortened and simplified too much.

The last supper which is the institution of the Eucharist (first Eucharist) is propitiatory in the sense that it is about the sacrifice at Calvary at the cross.

The last supper need to be explained, which I did, though I can never be as articulate as Scott Hann, but that is the gist of Eucharist.
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Can you see why I would be confused by your answers?
 
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