Do you pray to Saint Jesus?

[holy_wood]

Jesus is the “High Priest” in Heaven and yet He instituted the priesthood.

Jesus is the Son of God and yet, when we partake of His Body and Blood we become "blood relatives…a kind of DNA --sharing with His Body and Blood. So we then become "sons of God "too…through His Son.

Jesus gave us His mother at Calvary…there again, we then became “immediate family” members.

When I sometimes connect all these things, to me, it seems as though Heaven is one large, happy family for all eternity.

Jesus a saint? I don’t think so…**He was never “canonized.” ******

Your Lord and Savior is not numbered among the saints of Heaven, thats what I got from this post.

Does Jesus have a human soul?

Are human souls in Heaven Saints?

Do you thin Jesus would meet there qualifications for canonization for the Church?

Is it false to claim the Jesus is the Saint of Saints?

 

[LilyM]

holy_wood:
Your Lord and Savior is not numbered among the saints of Heaven, thats what I got from this post.

Does Jesus have a human soul?

Are human souls in Heaven Saints?

Do you thin Jesus would meet there qualifications for canonization for the Church?

Is it false to claim the Jesus is the Saint of Saints?

Jesus has a human soul but also the nature of True God inseparably joined to His human nature and human soul. So His human soul is very different straight away from your average ordinary human soul. And this difference extends to such things as whether He can properly be called a saint.

The process of canonisation implies several things - firstly a human never makes THEMSELVES a saint or saintly - it’s by God’s grace working upon them from outside that they are made so. Secondly we do not call someone a capital-s Saint until such time as God, AFTER their death, chooses to manifest, through performing miracles at their intercession, that they are in heaven with Him.

Jesus’ divinity and heavenly destiny were apparent during His lifetime, no-one needed to wait until after His death to be certain that He would go to heaven. And His miracles were not performed through His intercession with the Father, as are those of mere human beings, but directly by and of Himself, through His own divine power.

Whatever Jesus was and became as a human came entirely from within Himself, from His nature as God working together with His nature as man. Unlike other Saints who are made so from without. So, no, in the ordinary sense of the word He is not a saint as other human saints are, and absolutely above, beyond and outside the scope of the process of canonisation for sure.

 

[DJgang]

Good point Jim…

But I think I know where OP is going…

We pray to the Christ Child, etc…

At one point wouldn’t Jesus be considered a Saint, probably so, just for those, what, three days that he was dead…

But He rose,

He is alive!

So, Jesus wouldn’t qualify as a Saint…right?

Okay…just thinking outloud…

 

[saylo]

holy_wood:
Your Lord and Savior is not numbered among the saints of Heaven, thats what I got from this post.

Does Jesus have a human soul?

Are human souls in Heaven Saints?

Do you thin Jesus would meet there qualifications for canonization for the Church?

Jesus founded the Church. The Church is His bride and it also is His servant. The Church is given great powers by Jesus (it can only have these powers because they were bestowed in it by Jesus Himself).

Jesus took on a souls to be one of us. By having a soul we are able to relate to Him and to identify and bond with Him. Before He came into the world God was, in a sense, abstract and distant and without a countenance. He was not recognizable to the human eye. He appeared as a “Burning Bush” a silver cloud, a Voice from Above, a pillar of light, etc. But never in a way that we could come close to…that is until His Son dwelt among us.

Now we can come near. Jesus told us, “When you see Me, you see the Father…I am in the Father and the Father is in Me…”

But I detract…the Church is the bride/servant of Christ and does not give Him a title as “saint.” He has a soul, true but He is also “The Alpha and the Omega…the First and the Last.”

How can a son in a human family setting say to his father…“Dad, I am making you my brother!”

Saints are souls that serve God/Jesus. How can Jesus serve Himself?

It’s kinda “off-the-wall” wouldn’t you think?

Is it false to claim the Jesus is the Saint of Saints?

 

[LilyM]

Good point Jim…

But I think I know where OP is going…

We pray to the Christ Child, etc…

At one point wouldn’t Jesus be considered a Saint, probably so, just for those, what, three days that he was dead…

But He rose,

He is alive!

So, Jesus wouldn’t qualify as a Saint…right?

Okay…just thinking outloud…

No - even though His human body died HE as a person (since His person is both human and divine, inseparably combined) never really died at all, unlike what happens to a merely human person upon their death.

 

[saylo]

No - even though His human body died HE as a person (since His person is both human and divine, inseparably combined) never really died at all, unlike what happens to a merely human person upon their death.

Don’t want to seem intolerant but this notion of wondering if Jesus is a saint is like a moth is attracted to a lit candle. To assimilate that sort of notion is winking at heresy. I do not think we should be going there.

 

[holy_wood]

Don’t want to seem intolerant but this notion of wondering if Jesus is a saint is like a moth is attracted to a lit candle. To assimilate that sort of notion is winking at heresy. I do not think we should be going there.

winking at heresy, why

 

[LilyM]

winking at heresy, why

Because it’s putting Jesus, God-made-man, on the same level as His merely human creatures, however holy those creatures may be.

About human creatures we are permitted doubts as to whether they are in heaven, about human creatures we need the reassurance of God’s miracles and formal declaration and labelling as ‘Saints’ by the Church to encourage us to believe that they are.

About Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, to dare to entertain such doubts or seek such reassurance is to flirt with heresy.

 

[Joysong]

I may have been too light in suggesting the word “mockery” … for the OP to keep the ball rolling and wear the garb of the innocent questioning lamb, is getting not only close to heresy, but also blasphemy. [IMHO]

2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech; in misusing God’s name. St. James condemns those “who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called.” The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ’s Church, the saints, and sacred things.

Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin.

OP, you say you are a Catholic, and you don’t know the bare minimum of the truths about Jesus? And you don’t know where to find them? Try the Catechism, from which I quoted above.
ALL truths will be found there and in the gospels.

Yes, you DO offend people with reducing the Divine Son of God to the level of a saint. But I see that you are only 19 and have much to learn about etiquette, even in your profile.

 

[Joysong]

Nicene Creed, recited each Sunday at Mass:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.

I trust you have heard this at least once or twice, Holy_wood?

 

[holy_wood]

I may have been too light in suggesting the word “mockery” … for the OP to keep the ball rolling and wear the garb of the innocent questioning lamb, is getting not only close to heresy, but also blasphemy. [IMHO]

OP, you say you are a Catholic, and you don’t know the bare minimum of the truths about Jesus? And you don’t know where to find them? Try the Catechism, from which I quoted above.
ALL truths will be found there and in the gospels.

Yes, you DO offend people with reducing the Divine Son of God to the level of a saint. But I see that you are only 19 and have much to learn about etiquette, even in your profile.

Blasphemy!!! Seriously.

If Jesus is truly human and in Heaven then he is a saint. He is also God but that still does not mean one aspect of who he is cannot also be recognized as a Saint.

Matt 3

16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. 17 And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Does not this verse suggest that Jesus did things that were pleasing to the Father. Since Jesus is the Second person of the Trinity obviously he can do nothing to displease the Father so this verse must be appealing to his humanity.

I do not see the problem in calling Jesus a Saint.

Does not the scriptures call him prophet, priest, and king?

Are they being disrespectful by not mentioning his divinity in the same verses?

 

[holy_wood]

Good point Jim…

But I think I know where OP is going…

We pray to the Christ Child, etc…

At one point wouldn’t Jesus be considered a Saint, probably so, just for those, what, three days that he was dead…

But He rose,

He is alive!

So, Jesus wouldn’t qualify as a Saint…right?

Okay…just thinking outloud…

By this logic on the Day of Resurrection when everybody gets there glorified body all the righteous who the Church deemed as Saints would no longer be Saints anymore because they are alive!

 

[Joysong]

Holy_wood,

As I rose this morning and offered my day to God, asking Him to bless my every word, thought and action that it may glorify Him, I couldn’t help but think of your motivation in beginning this thread.

If it was truly to glorify the Lord, bring Him honor, show your deep love for Him to all whom you encounter, then rest in peace.

But if your subtle intention was to presume to teach a doctrine

… that has never been Catholic theology, revelation, or understanding,

… in order to create a shock value,

… challenge sincere catholics to re-think “outside the box,”

… and believe that those who love Him will find your novelty amusing,

Then YOU need to “think” outside the box and carry your doctrine to those who gleefully enjoin you.

I have nothing further to add in this conversation. Just remember that God sees the entire motion of your heart and the reasons for your continuing this attempt.

 

[LilyM]

Blasphemy!!! Seriously.

If Jesus is truly human and in Heaven then he is a saint. He is also God but that still does not mean one aspect of who he is cannot also be recognized as a Saint.

Matt 3

Does not this verse suggest that Jesus did things that were pleasing to the Father. Since Jesus is the Second person of the Trinity obviously he can do nothing to displease the Father so this verse must be appealing to his humanity.

I do not see the problem in calling Jesus a Saint.

Does not the scriptures call him prophet, priest, and king?

Are they being disrespectful by not mentioning his divinity in the same verses?

But Jesus is NOT a prophet just like any other prophet - the OT prophets all pointed to Him and only Him as the fulfilment of their prophecy, not just as another prophet like themselves. What is left, after Jesus lived, died, rose and ascended, and promised to return, for Jesus or anyone else to prophesy ABOUT? Nothing. So no, He was so much more than a prophet.

And He is NOT a priest like any other priest, Paul is very careful to point out the vast difference between Him, the perfect sinless victim/priest who need not offer repeated sacrifices for his own sins, and ordinary priests of both Old and New Covenants.

Neither is He a King just like David or Solomon - His Kingdom, as He pointed out, is not of this earth, totally unlike their Kingdom, but rather the Kingdom of Heaven itself. He in fact basically denied that He even was a King until pressed by Pilate, so radically different is His rule of servanthood and self-sacrifice unto death, from anything we label Kingship.

You see the people who wrote about these things, unlike you, seem largely to be aware that He was so much more and so much different than any mere title they could claim for Him.

To call Him any of these things, let alone saint, is like calling Matthew, Mark, Luke or John merely a writer. Not that the description is necessarily untrue. It is, though, so utterly inadequate in terms of describing what they were, that it is really an insult to call them merely ‘writers’ and lump them alongside a Barbara Cartland or a Tom Clancy. What they truly were was divinely-inspired teachers and revealers of the Word of God - ‘writer’ doesn’t cover a fraction of it! That’s why the term ‘Evangelist’ was coined, and we stick to it.

What Jesus is to the Prophets, Priests, Kings and Saints that came before and after Him, is what the Evangelists are to Barbara and Tom. NOW do you see where we’re coming from?

 

[Joysong]

Good post, LilyM.

[Is there such a thing as sprinkling online with holy water? Geesh!]

 

[InLight247]

Different people such as Jim, Joysong, LilyM and others have all given OP sound and solid (name removed by moderator)uts.

A person with some sort of humble and truthful spirit will at least listen and reflect on others’ advice. A young person with good learning spirit especially ought to have such traits.

I hope the OP will not continue his incorrect thinking toward our Lord.

 

[saylo]

Because it’s putting Jesus, God-made-man, on the same level as His merely human creatures, however holy those creatures may be.

About human creatures we are permitted doubts as to whether they are in heaven, about human creatures we need the reassurance of God’s miracles and formal declaration and labelling as ‘Saints’ by the Church to encourage us to believe that they are.

About Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, to dare to entertain such doubts or seek such reassurance is to flirt with heresy.

Thank you. If the OP is who it says it is “Catholic” a question such as this would never be asked. It is a question that provokes degrading thoughts of Jesus who sits at the Right Hand of God the Father.

It is a “put-on” and we allowed it to get as far as it has. I apologize to Him and all the posters here for failure to recognize this ruse.

 

[saylo]

Different people such as Jim, Joysong, LilyM and others have all given OP sound and solid (name removed by moderator)uts.

A person with some sort of humble and truthful spirit will at least listen and reflect on others’ advice. A young person with good learning spirit especially ought to have such traits.

I hope the OP will not continue his incorrect thinking toward our Lord.

The OP is playing a “game” with us and is, in his own distorted way, getting enjoyment in offending this Forum. He has gone too far; he started out seemingly “innocent” enough but we can chart where he is taking this thread and it is unholy.

There are such things as “doctrines of Demons” and this in one of them. Shun this OP. Give him no attention.

This is a troubled soul.

 

[Joysong]

Saylo:

It is a “put-on” and we allowed it to get as far as it has. I apologize to Him and all the posters here for failure to recognize this ruse.

The beauty of his continuing the charade is that he has now confirmed the initial discernment sent to some of us by the Holy Spirit. It strengthens us to know that what we discerned in our spirits was holy and true.

There were other posts in which he argued against our giving honor to Mary, etc. No, he is not a Catholic in the full practicing sense of the word. James 2:10, “And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all.” If a Catholic picks and choose what in his finite mind he will believe, and what he thinks he have a right to reject because it is opposed to his reason, that simply is not the essence of faith.

Thanks Saylo, I think we have his number!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The the term, “Saint,” is misapplied here and must first be understood in order to see that to label Jesus as a Saint, is inaccurate.

Saints are those, who have been sanctified through God’s gift of sanctifying grace. The word “saint” itself, comes from the definition of one who has been sanctified.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:48

Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself.49
2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God’s call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God’s interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.

Based on the above, it is obvious that Christ does not give sanctifying grace to Himself, but He gives it to us. Only God can give sanctifying grace. Only a sinner can be sanctified, and that is done through Jesus Christ. So to refer to Jesus as a saint, is inaccurate.

Jim