Do you primarily or exclusively attend the TLM? If so, what do you think of EWTN?

[Cinette]

Primarily, I’ve heard Fr. Groeschel deny the doctrine of EENS. He has misrepresented the scriptures to support his arguments and been obstinate in his denial. He literally said, “I never bought that.” Fr. Pacwa has said the same thing, “I personally don’t hold it, but I’m here to teach what the Church teaches, not what I think.”

Fr. Pacwa has also made statements about Fr. Malachi Martin and his book “The Jesuits” which were untrue. Fr. Martin was a far more impressive Jesuit than Fr. Pacwa and he should be ashamed of himself for his calumny.

They present the Catholic faith as being “the fullness” of truth instead of “necessary” for salvation.

They promote false ideas about the Popes, they promote a form of papolatry that is completely unhealthy. They ignore the most important Popes of the last 2 centuries instead focusing on promoting the liberal philosophies of John Paul II and present it as actual magisterial teaching instead of the actual magisterial teachings of Pius IX, Leo XIII, Pius X, Pius XI, Pius XII.

All of the talk of Canonization of JPII and they haven’t once done an in depth analysis of the only Pope of the 20th Century who was canonized. St.Pius X, one of only 3 canonized Popes in a thousand years. That’s because St. Pius X was the exact opposite of JPII and the contradictions apparent and the comparisons would take the bloom off the rose of JPII “the Great.”

I would love to see Fr. Pacwa go line by line through the encyclicals of St. Pius X, and read them as is, they would blow the lid off of most of the shenanigans of the modern liberal and conservative factions of the Church and condemn much being done on EWTN.

And EWTN never, ever admits to being wrong. There are no corrections on their website, never any corrections on the part of priests or laiety who get things wrong.

Even last night, Fr. Pacwa was on TV misleading some poor kid asking a question about the so-called “Charismatic” movement and it’s place in the Church. He talked about it’s origins in the 60’
s in Protestant circles, (Not exactly Apostolic) and mentioned none of the abberrations associated with Charismatic liturgies which are even against the decrees of the beloved Second Vatican Council. He tried to pass off John Paul II as supporting the movement when JPII only tolerated the movement and actually ridiculed it on video back in the early 80’s.

If you really are curious, read Chris Ferrara’s book: EWTN A Network Gone Wrong. I have yet to see anyone actually refute the facts as he’s presented them. In fact, I’m the “concerned Catholic” mentioned on page 79 or so, who wrote to Robert Sungenis about Fr. Groeschel trying to misrepresent the Gospel by appealing to the Greek text. Dr. Sungenis forwarded my reference to Ferrara and Ferrara obtained a copy of the show and it’s listed in the footnotes of his book.

While I have no doubt of the truth in some of what you say, you remind me of when my husband went to Europe some years ago. He bumped into an old colleague of his Father and this man said. "This place if full of porn you can’t imagine - have you seen A, oh what a terrible film, have you seen B? that that was something incredible; what about C and X and Y and Z???:

He was condemning these films and yet he had seen them all!!!

If you do not like EWTN then don’t watch it!

I believe that the fruits of EWTN are plenty. The person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!

So my friend. There is an easy solution - don’t watch EWTN!:tiphat:

 

[JaMc]

While I have no doubt of the truth in some of what you say, you remind me of when my husband went to Europe some years ago. He bumped into an old colleague of his Father and this man said. "This place if full of porn you can’t imagine - have you seen A, oh what a terrible film, have you seen B? that that was something incredible; what about C and X and Y and Z???:

He was condemning these films and yet he had seen them all!!!

If you do not like EWTN then don’t watch it!

I believe that the fruits of EWTN are plenty. The person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!

So my friend. There is an easy solution - don’t watch EWTN!:tiphat:

It appears that Gerard P has been banned, so I don’t think we’ll be hearing much from him anymore. But, I noticed that he mentioned that St. Pius X should be discussed more. Actually, just tonight I was watching a program on EWTN where the host did discuss St. Pius X in some detail - it was the “Great Heresies,” and the host did go through St. Pius X’s encyclical on the Modernist Heresy line-by-line. It was very interesting, and I hope to catch more of the series when it’s on.

 

[Cinette]

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. It is the Latin for No Salvation Outside the Church.

Anybody who believes that…

I do believe that many of the so called Traditionalists would probably have some criticism of Jesus if he were among us today!

How can they minimize JPII - look at how so many were drawn to the Church thru him, look at his example; look at World Youth Day; look at the vocations…

We must also remember the times in which we live. How many are drawn to the traditionalist Mass - how many converts?

Let us look at the fruits.

 

[Cinette]

OK…this will be my first post and I pray not my last…EWTN is a wellspring of Grace!! The Journey Home is my favorite show!!
How could anyone say negative about the shows on EWTN!!
As far as the teaching of No Salvation Outside the Church…Let’s be non judgemental here and love a little… what does Scripture say…There are many in the flock that are not in the fold…The “Church” if I am not misstaken are her people…I know many Christians who will be in heaven while I am still cooking in purgatory…The Catholic Church is God’s Church no doubt about it and He prayed May we all be one as They are One…Please don’t be upset with me but LOVE is the only thing that will follow us to heaven…The Greatest Commandment…How else do you preach the Gospel without words?? Good ol’ St Francis style…

Thank you for that!

 

[mtr01]

Anybody who believes that…

Everybody should believe it. It’s a doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

[Cinette]

Everybody should believe it. It’s a doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I find this very hard to believe! It doesn’t make sense. From a merciful God! So Jews, Hindus, Muslims and everybody who is not Catholic will not be saved!

I love my Catholic Faith and I believe in obeidence to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. But this is ridiculous!

I am going to check it up. Can you tell me where this can be found in theCatechism?? :bigyikes:

 

[JaMc]

I find this very hard to believe! It doesn’t make sense. From a merciful God! So Jews, Hindus, Muslims and everybody who is not Catholic will not be saved!

I love my Catholic Faith and I believe in obeidence to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. But this is ridiculous!

I am going to check it up. Can you tell me where this can be found in theCatechism?? :bigyikes:

Keep in mind that, in order to be guilty of mortal sin, one must be conscious of the sin. Also keep in mind the principle of “Baptism by Desire.” So, basically, if the “Jews, Hindus, Muslims and everybody who is not Catholic” were raised that way, never knew about the Church, but would accept its teachings if they did know and would convert if given the chance, then they may be saved. However, if they are aware of the Church’s teachings, but still choose to reject it, then they are not.

Essentially, the Church must accept the mercy of God, without falling into Indifferentism. Unlike other issues certain politicians raise, this is one where there has been significant debate among theologians over the centuries - i.e., the idea of “Limbo” and subsequent rejection. However, it still remains that, “outside the church there is no salvation,” albeit qualified as explained above.

 

[sskelly]

I started attending the Latin mass this year. Go to NO mass during the week, or watch mass on EWTN. I’m a pink collar working girl who will probably never get to see the Vatican or the Holy Land, and I’m grateful for all I’ve seen and learned on EWTN.

 

[Cinette]

Keep in mind that, in order to be guilty of mortal sin, one must be conscious of the sin. Also keep in mind the principle of “Baptism by Desire.” So, basically, if the “Jews, Hindus, Muslims and everybody who is not Catholic” were raised that way, never knew about the Church, but would accept its teachings if they did know and would convert if given the chance, then they may be saved. However, if they are aware of the Church’s teachings, but still choose to reject it, then they are not.

Essentially, the Church must accept the mercy of God, without falling into Indifferentism. Unlike other issues certain politicians raise, this is one where there has been significant debate among theologians over the centuries - i.e., the idea of “Limbo” and subsequent rejection. However, it still remains that, “outside the church there is no salvation,” albeit qualified as explained above.

What about Anglicans, Methodists, Prysbeterians, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, etc. What about Athiests. Do you believe in the concept of “implicit faith”?

 

[Cinette]

I started attending the Latin mass this year. Go to NO mass during the week, or watch mass on EWTN. I’m a pink collar working girl who will probably never get to see the Vatican or the Holy Land, and I’m grateful for all I’ve seen and learned on EWTN.

Me too. I have found EWTN a rich resource and have learned much thru it.

 

[japhy]

I find this very hard to believe! It doesn’t make sense. From a merciful God! So Jews, Hindus, Muslims and everybody who is not Catholic will not be saved!

I love my Catholic Faith and I believe in obeidence to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. But this is ridiculous!

I am going to check it up. Can you tell me where this can be found in the Catechism?

Start with the Catechism (nn. 846-848), and then move on to documents that spend more than a few sentences on the matter, like Mystici Corporis Christi of Pope Pius XII.

VERY BROADLY STATED: All salvation comes through Jesus Christ, by his Church (the Catholic Church). No one is saved apart from that Church, which is the very Body of Christ himself. Those who are not “formally” or “visibly” united to that Body might be saved, by means known to God, but not known to us, but we have no certainty of that.

Let me put it to you this way: if being a faithful Catholic isn’t necessary for salvation, why are we putting up with it?!

 

[japhy]

What about Anglicans, Methodists, Prysbeterians, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, etc. What about Athiests. Do you believe in the concept of “implicit faith”?

Could you define “implicit faith” for me?

People who reject the Catholic Church are one thing, people who are ignorant of Her are another. But it is our duty as Catholics to seek to bring them into the ONE Church of God, the Catholic Church.

And what of atheists? People who reject God altogether probably have no faith, implicit or otherwise.

 

[JaMc]

Could you define “implicit faith” for me?

People who reject the Catholic Church are one thing, people who are ignorant of Her are another. But it is our duty as Catholics to seek to bring them into the ONE Church of God, the Catholic Church.

And what of atheists? People who reject God altogether probably have no faith, implicit or otherwise.

I’d say the Catechism sections 846-848 in the link in an earlier post sums it up pretty well, and answers the question. On a side note, this thread seems to be drifting off-topic. While EENS is a very interesting subject, maybe this discussion should be spun off into a new thread?

 

[japhy]

On a side note, this thread seems to be drifting off-topic.

You’re right; I apologize for moving things further away from the core of the thread.

As someone who has only attended three TLMs (and one Tenebrae) in his life, I shouldn’t even be here!

 

[Cinette]

Start with the Catechism (nn. 846-848), and then move on to documents that spend more than a few sentences on the matter, like Mystici Corporis Christi of Pope Pius XII.

VERY BROADLY STATED: All salvation comes through Jesus Christ, I do not doubt that for a minute! by his Church (the Catholic Church). No one is saved apart from that Church, which is the very Body of Christ himself. It is a bit like the Protestants who say “So and so is not saved” which irritates the life out of me! Those who are not “formally” or “visibly” united to that Body might be saved, by means known to God, but not known to us, but we have no certainty of that.I believe that all good is a gift of the Holy Spirit and we can see the fruits of this goodness in peoples other than Catholics. In fact there are Catholics who do not project that goodness

Let me put it to you this way: if being a faithful Catholic isn’t necessary for salvation, why are we putting up with it?!

We Catholics recognize baptism from other Christian denominations as valid provided if it is correctly administered. Now, what does that tell you?

I have seen extreme good in Athiests and Muslims and others. Extreme goodness and self sacrifice. I think we have to follow Jesus’ advice “Do not judge…”:bowdown2: :bowdown:

 

[Cinette]

Could you define “implicit faith” for me?

I came across this when I was reflecting on my father-in-law’s salvation. He was born in Portugal under the rule of the Fascist leader Salazar. The Church at that time was very chummy with the State and this infuriated many people who opposed Salazar and were concerned about the suffering of the majority. He wanted nothing to do with the Church and was an Athiest from the age of 14. Mario was a most extraordinary human being, compassionate, loving, faithful, good in every way and did many acts of kindness - all his life. Now, nobody is born good - that comes from God. No doubt about that. I never spoke to Mario about this because at that time I had turn my back on the Church. It was only when I came back to the Church that I began to reflect on his death and salvation. My husband, who was also an athiest, was beginning to have the first stirrings of Faith and he was searching. One day while he was reading a book on Catholocism he came across the concept of “implicit faith” and read it to me. Well I immediately reacted with joy because it was so RIGHT and TRUE.

Very, simply “implicit faith” means that a person “believes” without knowing it. Mario believed and lived 9 of the 10 commandments. He was pro-life, he was the prototype “Christian” without knowing it. I have explained it very simply. I know that there is more to say on the subject but I think my simple explanation will suffice

People who reject the Catholic Church are one thing, people who are ignorant of Her are another. But it is our duty as Catholics to seek to bring them into the ONE Church of God, the Catholic Church.Oh Yes, yes and that is why I love EWTN so much and actually am hurt when people criticize it.

Look, Mother Angilica’s body language is not something that I appreciate very much. However, I acknowledge her courage, her risilience, her perseverance, her Faith, her leadership, her great achievement. Fr Corapi has made me wince a couple of times but I also acknowledge his great worth. As for Fr Pacwa he grates me with his “great, and what is your question?”!!! There are other programmes which I simply love and I have to say that EWTN has taught me a lot and I tell every about it. In fact I might be breaking some copyright laws but I sometimes make copies of programmes and pass them around and have got other people to also subscribe to EWTN. I am quilty of that and do not apologise for it.

And what of atheists? People who reject God altogether probably have no faith, implicit or otherwise.

There is a parishioner at my parish whose husband is an athiest. Yet he comes to all the talks at the Jesuit Centre and defends the Catholic Church. He has said often that no other organization has done more for humanity than the CC. He speaks about the sacrifice of the priests. I have teased him on occasion and asked when he is going to make his first Holy Communion! :extrahappy:

So? Why, indeed? Do we know God’s ways? Why has he not received the gift of Faith? You will have to ask God!

 

[historyb]

Do you primarily or exclusively attend the TLM?

If so, what do you think of EWTN?

No, I would love to goto a TLM. I love EWTN

 

[Listener]

Just a comment on Fr. Benedict Groeschel. He was a speaker at a Charismatic Conference that I went to once. He seems to be a very saintly priest. I was blessed to have the opportunity to meet him, and I bought a video of his talk. I think it takes a lot of nerve to call him a heretic. We all seem to agree that abortion is a sin. What about slander? As far as EWTN goes, I do watch it once in awhile. A lot of it is repetitive and boring, but I do enjoy the broadcast of the Pope meeting the public.

 

[Cinette]

Just a comment on Fr. Benedict Groeschel. He was a speaker at a Charismatic Conference that I went to once. He seems to be a very saintly priest. I was blessed to have the opportunity to meet him, and I bought a video of his talk. I think it takes a lot of nerve to call him a heretic. We all seem to agree that abortion is a sin. What about slander? As far as EWTN goes, I do watch it once in awhile. A lot of it is repetitive and boring, but I do enjoy the broadcast of the Pope meeting the public.

On my way back from Mass today I met up with a friend. She subscribes to “Inside the Vatican” and other publications. Her brother is an OMI at the Vatican.

She has health problems and cannot go to daily Mass as it takes a long time to prepare for going out. So having EWTN is a comfort. She was telling me that a Priest who celebrated Mass on EWTN recounted that Ingrid Bettencourt (the woman who was held captive by the Colombian terrorists in the jungle for 6 years) had been a lapsed Catholic and one day while she was still captive in the jungle she heard the Pope on the radio talking about her. She was listening to EWTN of course. This touched her so much that it brought her back to the faith. She made a rosary from buttons and began to pray…

:clapping:

How many people has EWTN helped? How many suicides has Mother Angelica prevented? How many people have been converted or brought back to the Faith?



So EWTN is boring? Well, there have been those who find the Mass boring!

 

[sskelly]

I prefer EWTN’s mass to the one at my local church during the week. I go to a beautiful Latin mass on weekends.