Do you see yourself as a Catholic first, or a Christian first?

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YoungTradCath said:
No, you’re wrong.
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Actually, he’s right. Even though the word “catholic” was used in the First Millennium, Christians was really the label on those who belong to the Church. “Catholic” and “Orthodox” are to common words that describe the faith, rather than the faith itself. Catholic meaning universal, because unlike the Jewish faith which was exclusively for the Jews, the Christian faith is open to Jews and Gentiles alike. And Orthodox of course for those who are right-believing Christians, those who profess the right faith and not those who have fallen into heresy, like the gnostics and arians.
 
Catholic; Christian is implied. Being Catholic identifies you with Universal Truth. Identifying yourself as Christian leaves open the possibility of error due to the Protestant rebellion. Seems rather straightforward to me. 🤷
 
jeff417 said:
Catholic; Christian is implied. Being Catholic identifies you with Universal Truth. Identifying yourself as Christian leaves open the possibility of error due to the Protestant rebellion. Seems rather straightforward to me. 🤷
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Your words are representative of the understanding today, and its sad that it has come to that. A true Christian should always be right-believing (orthodox). Anyone else are heretics. Sad that the word has fallen away from its true meaning.
 
More and more mainline “Christian” pastors silently condone abortion - leaving the “choice” in the realm of private family decisions. Abortions and sterilizations are performed at their “Christian” hospitals.

Male on male sexual acts and female on female sexual acts are allowed through osmosis (when pastors and bishops are sexually active partnered homosexuals) and the congregation slowly comes to believe that God blesses homosexual marriages.

Remarriage after divorce after divorce is allowable.

Abortafacient contraception isn’t questioned.

Emryonic stem cell usage isn’t contested.
 
ChrisRedfield47 said:
“Christian is my name, and Catholic is my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart. . . . When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name” (Three Letters to the Novatianist Sympronian 1:4 [A.D. 379]).

-Pacian of Barcelona
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Keep in mind that this statement was made during a time when the Catholic Faith was generally regarded as the true one. There were heresies of course, but the long-lasting
divisions that we now know in Christianity did not exist yet. It sounds like here he was emphasizing that his faith is more than belonging to an organization- it is knowing God.
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Whitacre_Girl:
I’m going to say Christian before Catholic. If Jesus appears before me tomorrow and says that Catholicism is all wrong (thought I sincerely don’t think so!) I would have NO trouble walking away if it meant truly following him. I am a follower of Christ first and foremost.
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If someone who appeared to be Jesus appeared to me and told me that, I would dismiss them as a demon- Jesus does not lie.
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ConstantineTG:
So are the Orthodox saints like St. Mark of Ephesus and St. Alexis Toth now Catholics in heaven? Take a moment to read their lives first before you reply.
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A person becomes a saint because they die in a state of grace. That doesn’t mean they are infallible, or that they have always lived virtuous lives-- it means that, at least at the end of their life, a person has been sincere in their search for truth, and in their embracing of what truth they find.

St. Alexis Toth became Eastern Orthodox and encouraged others to do the same mostly as an attempt to preserve what the bishops had no right to abrogate in the first place.

St. Mark of Ephesus is not regarded as a saint in the Catholic Church because he publicly opposed some of what the Church teaches. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a saint- he seems to have lived a very virtuous life and he stood up for truth as he understood it. Perhaps he just misunderstood the Church’s position. Religious matters were much more political then- the temporal authority of the Church was emphasized so much more then that it is almost impossible to imagine that now.

…

I am Catholic first, because Jesus did not leave us a book- he left us a Church, who gave us that book.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Christian
There are no Catholics in heaven. In heaven there are no factions.
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That is the point of the use of the word Katholikos, which as I am sure you know means universal, of course the total opposite of fractured.

This is why in the Nicene Creed we proclaim our belief in the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, therefore, since we are also in communion with the saints, we could say that all of the faithful departed are in a sense members of the Catholic Church.

I believe your concern comes from common preconceptions concerning the word catholic, which you may be taking as basically meaning Roman Catholic, which I am sure was not what was meant when it was first used in the Nicene Creed, and indeed is still not in the Orthodox churches and Byzantine Catholics as well.
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ConstantineTG said:
A true Christian should always be right-believing (orthodox). Anyone else are heretics.
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I agree with you here. My point in my other post is that catholic (in its sense in the Nicene Creed) is a valid synonym for orthodox.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Actually, he’s right. Even though the word “catholic” was used in the First Millennium, Christians was really the label on those who belong to the Church. “Catholic” and “Orthodox” are to common words that describe the faith, rather than the faith itself. Catholic meaning universal, because unlike the Jewish faith which was exclusively for the Jews, the Christian faith is open to Jews and Gentiles alike. And Orthodox of course for those who are right-believing Christians, those who profess the right faith and not those who have fallen into heresy, like the gnostics and arians.
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I know what the word means. I just mean, his sentiment is wrong. He is right about the word, but I believe his sentiment is wrong, by his using “simply.” I degrades the importance of not just being a Christian, but of being a complete Christian.
 
I am a Catholic Christian and I believe all souls go to heaven as my God is judge and jury of who enters into His Kingdom. God forgives and He saves.
 
Crystall said:
I am a Catholic Christian and I believe all souls go to heaven as my God is judge and jury of who enters into His Kingdom. God forgives and He saves.
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Not everybody goes to Heaven. Jesus said so Himself :o Our beautiful faith also teaches us as a matter of doctrine that outside of the Church there is no salvation.
 
Dragonslayer said:
Recently I was talking to someone who I thought was a pretty staunch Catholic and he made the comment that he saw himself as a Christian first, moreso than a Catholic.

More recently when I have done or said something stupid a work colleague has lightheartedly said something like " I thought you were a Christian, you shouldn’t be saying things like that". On other occasions some others have commented about “the Christian thing to do…” etc

Now, that has got me thinking. How do we see ourselves foremost, a Catholic, or a Christian? Does it matter?
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Both are the same. If you’re Christian, you’re Catholic. If you’re Catholic, you’re Christian.
 
A_Catholic said:
This is how I see it. We have all inherited a deadly disease called Original Sin. It is spiritual AIDS. There is nothing any of us can do to be healed of it. The only cure for Original Sin is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is where faith comes in. No amount of good works can cure Original Sin, or mortal sin, for that matter. It is only the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. However, once we have been cured, that is where the works come in. Again, the works we do will not save us. But they will keep us spiritually healthy. If someone should be cured of AIDS, they need to now live a healthy lifestyle. If they go back to what they were doing that got them infected in the first place, they will be re-infected. If once we are forgiven of our sins - which only Jesus Christ can do - we must remain free of sin. If we go back, we lose our salvation. So in that sense it is faith and good works. But the good works of and by themselves have no salvific value. That is why just being a "Good Jew, a "Good Muslim, a “Good Buddhist” is not enough.
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Hello again A Catholic, et al,

Sorry for not responding sooner- but I’ve been fairly busy. 😃 At any rate, I understand what you mean by Jesus’ Salvific Grace and I freely accept that as one of the tenets of our Faith; however, by the same token, we cannot attain Heaven without good works attached to our Faith.

I encourage you to read Matthew 22 and 25 and James 2:14-26. Furthermore, if you study the early Church Fathers, both St. Gregory and St. Jerome refer to the white wedding garment in Matthew 22:11 as good works or acts of charity. Lack of this garment caused the man to be thrown out of the wedding banquet and into the outer darkness where there was wailing and gnashing of teeth, (hell), with his hands and feet bound. The binding of his hands and feet are an allusion to his lack of corporal mercies.

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
 
Too much time is wasted trying to put a label on followers of Jesus, the Christ. I think Jesus would be laughing or rolling his eyes if he read all the holier than thou bantering that has gone on these pages. None of it matters lets put more time in following the principles of Christ teachings and less time on having to be right. Catholics have a big ego problem needing to be right.
 
francessmith said:
Too much time is wasted trying to put a label on followers of Jesus, the Christ. I think Jesus would be laughing or rolling his eyes if he read all the holier than thou bantering that has gone on these pages. None of it matters lets put more time in following the principles of Christ teachings and less time on having to be right. Catholics have a big ego problem needing to be right.
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Lol that’s kind of a sad position. Catholics don’t have an ego problem. In fact, I’d say Catholics are one of the most persecuted religious groups in the US.
 
francessmith said:
Catholics have a big ego problem needing to be right.
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:confused: Jesus Christ established our Church. This isn’t a problem of ego, this is the truth. Was it egotistic for Jesus to say “I am the way, the truth and the life”? Was it an ego problem for Him to say that nobody can get to the Father except through Him?

This is not about ego. This is about truth. We need truth for salvation.
 
NewsTheMan said:
:confused: Jesus Christ established our Church. This isn’t a problem of ego, this is the truth. Was it egotistic for Jesus to say “I am the way, the truth and the life”? Was it an ego problem for Him to say that nobody can get to the Father except through Him?

This is not about ego. This is about truth. We need truth for salvation.
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Exactly!
 
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