Do you share this experience of elderly people?

[OneSheep]

Hi

I have had limited experience dealing with elderly people, especially those who are very ill, but I have some observations that I would like to share, and I invite people to share their own experiences and comments.

I have known two people fairly well who became gravely ill, whose will to live is greatly diminished. Their illness has compromised their ability to do what gives them joy. One of them loved to shop, the other loved to travel. These activities no longer became possible, so they sort of “gave up”.

Where this leads me is that I am getting a sense that these two, to some degree were already “dead”. I don’t say this as a condemnation or criticism of any sort, but I feel sad that their meaning in life was so focused on “getting something out of life” in a way that did not really involve giving to others. Could it be that their pain and depression has made them forget about or be distracted from any focus on giving? I don’t know. What I do know is that they do not seem to respond to any effort to get them to see that they still have something to offer those around them, which would give them more purpose to live.

It is as if life itself, unless focused on giving to others, is doomed to be ultimately meaningless, and the truly “eternal” life, the good life, is one that begins with all of the works of mercy. That the works of mercy are, in themselves, life. They are what sustains life.

Comments?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I was a hospice volunteer years back, now I’m an elderly person. Well, just 65, but still elderly.

I know elderly who were very generous all of their lives and yet in their old age, it wasn’t that they stopped being generous and giving, its just that their ability to do so, has gone. They are now the one’s in need and they often have a harder time dealing with being dependents than being givers.

Anyway, I learned that how you live is how you die.

If you were a grumpy negative person in life, you’ll die a grumpy negative person.

If you were a joyful positive person, you’ll die a joyful positive person.

Mostly, those who had faith died with joy.

Those who didn’t have faith, most often died in despair.

Jim

 

[porthos11]

Hi

I have had limited experience dealing with elderly people, especially those who are very ill, but I have some observations that I would like to share, and I invite people to share their own experiences and comments.

I have known two people fairly well who became gravely ill, whose will to live is greatly diminished. Their illness has compromised their ability to do what gives them joy. One of them loved to shop, the other loved to travel. These activities no longer became possible, so they sort of “gave up”.

Where this leads me is that I am getting a sense that these two, to some degree were already “dead”. I don’t say this as a condemnation or criticism of any sort, but I feel sad that their meaning in life was so focused on “getting something out of life” in a way that did not really involve giving to others. Could it be that their pain and depression has made them forget about or be distracted from any focus on giving? I don’t know. What I do know is that they do not seem to respond to any effort to get them to see that they still have something to offer those around them, which would give them more purpose to live.

It is as if life itself, unless focused on giving to others, is doomed to be ultimately meaningless, and the truly “eternal” life, the good life, is one that begins with all of the works of mercy. That the works of mercy are, in themselves, life. They are what sustains life.

Comments?

Or a life dedicated to God, such as through prayer and communing with him in Scripture and the sacraments. Not that that’s ALL we should be doing; it’s good to travel and shop. But when planned around the priorities—works of charity and prayer—once these fleeting things are gone, all that matter remain.

This is what sets apart the suffering of the saints from the suffering of the worldly. Both have suffering; that’s a fact of life. It’s whether one suffers by himself or suffers in God’s presence that makes all the difference.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

**Anyway, I learned that how you live is how you die.
**

Jim

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^

 

[Deus_tecum]

I talked with a lot of oldsters in an assisted living facility, and to many of them it was like a holding pen before either death or the nursing home, and most wished for death to take them first. They considered the facility an existence, but not true living.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My last hospice patient died when she was 103 years old. She still had plenty of wit and humor, but knew her end was near.

I asked about what the hardest part of living to be 100 was, and without hesitation, it was having to leave her home and live in the assisted living home. She said that the routine was the same everyday and it caused the days to mesh together so that it was difficult knowing the difference between Sunday and Friday. She went to Mass every morning and the staff did try to get her out to do things to give her some sense of time.

Anyway, I never saw her as being selfish or uncharitable. She lived a full life and when she was able to do things, was very charitable toward others.

Jim

 

[boomerang]

We all have lofty ideas about the purpose of life, and living that life to it’s fullest in terms of charity, sacrifice, and service to others, but the reality is not like that for most people. When you are near the end of life and pain and disability has overcome you, yes you do give up and “die” in a sense. I saw it with my mother.

When my father died, a little bit of her will to live was taken from her. When the neuropathy in her legs got worse and she had to walk with a cane, a little more of her will was gone. When she fell hard and fractured her spine and was forced to use a walker, another chunk of her will to live left her. Now she no longer had my father to care for, no longer had the ability to drive, and could only walk with difficulty. Food became difficult to swallow because of esophageal dysfunction. Then she received the final blow: cancer. The moment she heard the bad news she, almost literally, curled up and died. Her spiritual and physical death went on for 20 months.

It was very sad and horrible watching this process, but in reality, this is how it is for many, many people. I think suffering and losing the will to live is what prepares us to die, and prepares the family to be glad that death has come at last.

When you have reached this point in life, you have nothing more to give. Now is the time to receive. At this stage, people will become extremely self-centered. The whole world now revolves around them and their suffering. They want, they want, they want! Want what? Pain meds, water, to be left alone. They want to sit up, they want to lay down. Me, me, me, me. That is the reality of the end of life. Don’t expect unselfish heroics and altruism at this stage. They are preparing to give up their spirit to the next life, and we must help them. That is all.

How lucky are those who suddenly drop dead like my uncle. He was on his way to lunch with his wife when he suddenly grabbed his chest, pitched forward against the steering wheel and was gone. He was in his 80s. Great death.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

If this is true then by all accounts I died when I was divorced over 10 years ago. The really sad part is I was 41 at the time, which is not elderly at all… Oh wait a minute, the holy church of Rome says I’m still married- I guess I need to get happy…

Life has been hell ever since. If it is really true that you die like you live, then I know exactly how I will die. And where I will go after that…

 

[St_Francis]

One of the aspects I love about Catholicism is that we can continue this part of our lives, and continue to give to others, by offering up our difficulties and praying for others.

A nun was completely paralyzed except for her eyes. She indicated that she wanted a large rosary hung on the wall opposite her bed. She then prayed the Rosary, following the beads with her eyes.

Even tho she could not move, she continued to contribute.

 

[Anne1964]

I helped my mother to care for my aunt at home while she was dying and then a few years later I cared for my mother at home while she was dying.

My aunt was a career woman for years and had many accomplishments in her chosen field. At the end, when she only had a month to live, I realized that all of her accomplishments and sales awards were meaningless and that the only thing that mattered to her was her relationship with my mother and with me.

She tried hard not to be too demanding of our time but it was clear she wanted us near her. She was afraid of dying and refused to discuss it with anyone and believe me, we tried. She fought her death to her last breath and it was very hard to watch her die.

My mother, on the other hand, stayed at home with me after I was born and she loved helping others and she spent most of her adult life taking care of other family members. Family relationships were the most important thing in her life. During her last month she and I had many conversations about death and dying and what she might experience.

She accepted her impending death and had many visits from our parish priest and a retired priest. She also tried so hard not to be demanding but I constantly reassured her that I enjoyed taking care of her and that was true. Her death was quite peaceful and I am thankful for that.

I think it is a shame in our society that so many families cannot care for elderly relatives at home due to work responsibilities. I managed it but it was extremely stressful. I think that most people if given a choice would rather live with family and die at home.

 

[Rosebud77]

I talked with a lot of oldsters in an assisted living facility, and to many of them it was like a holding pen before either death or the nursing home, and most wished for death to take them first. They considered the facility an existence, but not true living.

In the UK there was even a TV sitcom series called "God’s Waiting Room, "

Terrible places often. I am avoiding them like a plague…Community is not this kind of segregation. We get “granny dumping” here…

 

[Rosebud77]

We all have lofty ideas about the purpose of life, and living that life to it’s fullest in terms of charity, sacrifice, and service to others, but the reality is not like that for most people. When you are near the end of life and pain and disability has overcome you, yes you do give up and “die” in a sense. I saw it with my mother.

When my father died, a little bit of her will to live was taken from her. When the neuropathy in her legs got worse and she had to walk with a cane, a little more of her will was gone. When she fell hard and fractured her spine and was forced to use a walker, another chunk of her will to live left her. Now she no longer had my father to care for, no longer had the ability to drive, and could only walk with difficulty. Food became difficult to swallow because of esophageal dysfunction. Then she received the final blow: cancer. The moment she heard the bad news she, almost literally, curled up and died. Her spiritual and physical death went on for 20 months.

It was very sad and horrible watching this process, but in reality, this is how it is for many, many people. I think suffering and losing the will to live is what prepares us to die, and prepares the family to be glad that death has come at last.

**When you have reached this point in life, you have nothing more to give. Now is the time to receive. At this stage, people will become extremely self-centered. The whole world now revolves around them and their suffering. They want, they want, they want! Want what? Pain meds, water, to be left alone. They want to sit up, they want to lay down. Me, me, me, me. That is the reality of the end of life. Don’t expect unselfish heroics and altruism at this stage. They are preparing to give up their spirit to the next life, and we must help them. That is all.

How lucky are those who suddenly drop dead like my uncle. He was on his way to lunch with his wife when he suddenly grabbed his chest, pitched forward against the steering wheel and was gone. He was in his 80s. Great death.**

I find this a depressing post and maybe too much of a generalisation and simplification. And a terribly judgemental and depressed way of looking at US

I speak as one approaching 80 at a rapidly increasing rate and with varied and also increasing “bits falling off”

I am semi bedbound now, due to a serious systemic illness that was misdiagnosednd wrongly treated for decades resulting in a lot of collateral damage and that is said calmly and with no self pity of horror. I am fine with NOW
SO WHAT? I AM ALIVE and i revel in that. I know my illness and my limitations and live joyfully within them. I AM ALIVE and life is a gift.

Bed is warm and snug and littered with knitting and cats… I can still care for myself and bother no one. Ask nothing and in fact repel any invasion!

And enjoy what I can still do in small exertions…

Like your example I too have oesphageal narrowing. It was terryfying at first; thought I was dying when food got stuck . Then I learned to cope ( will spare you my methods!!!) and now it is my responsibility to eat what will not get stuck. LOOOOOONG way to the hospital here!!!

Still plenty I can eat and enjoy including chocolate. … No great loss is meat etc. Not at all… soon wil have to start crushing pain meds but that is easy enough too

So please do not write US off like that; so judgemental. Life is a gift and a treasure and I intend to live it for all I can still do for others to the last sweet drop and I intend to avoid being near those who think as you do to that last drop also … in privacy and peace and the love of Jesus

OK?

OK!

And your last para… sigh that you can think like that.

 

[Rosebud77]

I helped my mother to care for my aunt at home while she was dying and then a few years later I cared for my mother at home while she was dying.

My aunt was a career woman for years and had many accomplishments in her chosen field. At the end, when she only had a month to live, I realized that all of her accomplishments and sales awards were meaningless and that the only thing that mattered to her was her relationship with my mother and with me.

She tried hard not to be too demanding of our time but it was clear she wanted us near her. She was afraid of dying and refused to discuss it with anyone and believe me, we tried. She fought her death to her last breath and it was very hard to watch her die.

My mother, on the other hand, stayed at home with me after I was born and she loved helping others and she spent most of her adult life taking care of other family members. Family relationships were the most important thing in her life. During her last month she and I had many conversations about death and dying and what she might experience.

She accepted her impending death and had many visits from our parish priest and a retired priest. She also tried so hard not to be demanding but I constantly reassured her that I enjoyed taking care of her and that was true. Her death was quite peaceful and I am thankful for that.

I think it is a shame in our society that so many families cannot care for elderly relatives at home due to work responsibilities. I managed it but it was extremely stressful. I think that most people if given a choice would rather live with family and die at home.

Amen to this. We get what they call “granny dumping” here; careers are more important than caring for the ones who cared for you when you were helpless. And well done you and THANK YOU

 

[boomerang]

Rosebud77:
I find this a depressing post and maybe too much of a generalisation and simplification. And a terribly judgemental and depressed way of looking at US

I speak as one approaching 80 at a rapidly increasing rate and with varied and also increasing “bits falling off”

I am semi bedbound now, due to a serious systemic illness that was misdiagnosednd wrongly treated for decades resulting in a lot of collateral damage and that is said calmly and with no self pity of horror. I am fine with NOW
SO WHAT? I AM ALIVE and i revel in that. I know my illness and my limitations and live joyfully within them. I AM ALIVE and life is a gift.

Bed is warm and snug and littered with knitting and cats… I can still care for myself and bother no one. Ask nothing and in fact repel any invasion!

And enjoy what I can still do in small exertions…

Like your example I too have oesphageal narrowing. It was terryfying at first; thought I was dying when food got stuck . Then I learned to cope ( will spare you my methods!!!) and now it is my responsibility to eat what will not get stuck. LOOOOOONG way to the hospital here!!!

Still plenty I can eat and enjoy including chocolate. … No great loss is meat etc. Not at all… soon wil have to start crushing pain meds but that is easy enough too

So please do not write US off like that; so judgemental. Life is a gift and a treasure and I intend to live it for all I can still do for others to the last sweet drop and I intend to avoid being near those who think as you do to that last drop also … in privacy and peace and the love of Jesus

OK?

OK!

And your last para… sigh that you can think like that.

Well, good for you. Yes it is depressing to watch someone give up. And no, I am not being judgemental. I am merely making an observation based on my own personal experience. That is how it is for just about everyone I have ever known. I am talking about the end of life. Hospice time. You are obviously not there yet. I am vacillating between laughing and feeling insulted at your remark, “I intend to avoid being near those who think as you do.” You don’t know anything about me, but you should thank your lucky stars if you had someone like me “near you.”

I quit my job to take care of my mother. I took care of her every minute of every day for years until she died at home in her own bed. I was up until dawn calming her when she had panic attacks, giving her enemas in the middle of the night, spoon feeding her, swabbing her mouth, changing her diapers, adjusting her medications, entertaining her, calling the priest, praying with her and praying for her and all the while I was fending off efforts by the rest of my family who wanted to dump her in a nursing home and be done with her. The toll this took on my health, finances and marriage was terrible.

Yeah, it would be fantastic if all of us could just whistle zippity-do-dah as we skip off into the sunset, but that is not realistic. Death does not come easy for most. If you can die quick like my uncle did, consider yourself blessed. Here’s another good death: a friend of mine had an aunt who knew a lady that got to assist at Padre Pio’s mass and received communion from him. After the mass, she went out for coffee with friends, put her hand to her head and said, “Oh, my head!” She then dropped dead right there. A wonderful death. How lucky for her.

 

[Rosebud77]

Well, good for you. Yes it is depressing to watch someone give up. And no, I am not being judgemental. I am merely making an observation based on my own personal experience. That is how it is for just about everyone I have ever known. I am talking about the end of life. Hospice time. You are obviously not there yet. I am vacillating between laughing and feeling insulted at your remark, “I intend to avoid being near those who think as you do.” You don’t know anything about me, but you should thank your lucky stars if you had someone like me “near you.”

I quit my job to take care of my mother. I took care of her every minute of every day for years until she died at home in her own bed. I was up until dawn calming her when she had panic attacks, giving her enemas in the middle of the night, spoon feeding her, swabbing her mouth, changing her diapers, adjusting her medications, entertaining her, calling the priest, praying with her and praying for her and all the while I was fending off efforts by the rest of my family who wanted to dump her in a nursing home and be done with her. The toll this took on my health, finances and marriage was terrible.

Yeah, it would be fantastic if all of us could just whistle zippity-do-dah as we skip off into the sunset, but that is not realistic. Death does not come easy for most. If you can die quick like my uncle did, consider yourself blessed. Here’s another good death: a friend of mine had an aunt who knew a lady that got to assist at Padre Pio’s mass and received communion from him. After the mass, she went out for coffee with friends, put her hand to her head and said, “Oh, my head!” She then dropped dead right there. A wonderful death. How lucky for her.

Sorry that the giving has left you so demoralised and, yes bitter. Wondering what your dear mothers’ viewpoint was though?

Old age and growing old is an integral part of our lives . As God has made us.

 

[Deus_tecum]

In the UK there was even a TV sitcom series called "God’s Waiting Room, "

Terrible places often. I am avoiding them like a plague…Community is not this kind of segregation. We get “granny dumping” here…

I guess that’s what happens when healthcare is “free” and managed by the government.

 

[Rosebud77]

Hi

I have had limited experience dealing with elderly people, especially those who are very ill, but I have some observations that I would like to share, and I invite people to share their own experiences and comments.

I have known two people fairly well who became gravely ill, whose will to live is greatly diminished. Their illness has compromised their ability to do what gives them joy. One of them loved to shop, the other loved to travel. These activities no longer became possible, so they sort of “gave up”.

Where this leads me is that I am getting a sense that these two, to some degree were already “dead”. I don’t say this as a condemnation or criticism of any sort, but I feel sad that their meaning in life was so focused on “getting something out of life” in a way that did not really involve giving to others. Could it be that their pain and depression has made them forget about or be distracted from any focus on giving? I don’t know. What I do know is that they do not seem to respond to any effort to get them to see that they still have something to offer those around them, which would give them more purpose to live.

It is as if life itself, unless focused on giving to others, is doomed to be ultimately meaningless, and the truly “eternal” life, the good life, is one that begins with all of the works of mercy. That the works of mercy are, in themselves, life. They are what sustains life.

Comments?

I understand what you mean although I find some of your words , yes , judgemenal to some degree, or is it that in your quest for the answer you cannot find the right words?I think the latter.!

At the back of my mind is the news item re a woman going to Switzerland,to the euthanazia clinic, ah I think this is one?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2564023/Italian-woman-85-ends-life-Swiss-Dignitas-clinic-upset-losing-looks.html

and this…

nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2015/08/healthy-woman-who-dies-by-assisted-suicide-in-switzerland-was-likely-depressed/#.V-pbmzMrLnA

where people value what they do so much they cannot make the transition?

As others have said, if your focus is on you alone?

 

[OneSheep]

Hi Rosebud,

I understand what you mean although I find some of your words , yes , judgemenal to some degree, or is it that in your quest for the answer you cannot find the right words?I think the latter.!

My focus was on “what gives us life”. What I am observing is that when people struggle at the end of life and give up, but a change attitude would actually do wonders, what do people have to look forward to? If my focus has been on “that next thing I will buy” or “that next trip”, these things will not ultimately give me life, because the focus is on what gives me pleasure in a more material sense. The fact is, we can get more pleasure out of being merciful, practicing the works of mercy. And in such practice, our focus transitions to one of being centered on the well-being of others.

That said, what everyone has said here on the thread is helpful and makes sense. When we suffer physically, it becomes “all about me”, it is probably a natural self-preservation phenomenon.

where people value what they do so much they cannot make the transition?

As others have said, if your focus is on you alone?

I want her to want to live, to eat, to try to hydrate so that her dementia (which is not bad) does not worsen, but she is not very motivated. She is already very weak and is losing more weight. She is in a lot of pain, but does not have a terminal illness, it can and will go away if she tries. It just seems to me that if her focus had always been more centered on giving rather than experiencing, the habit itself would have given her a mindset that would have now manifested in a desire to live, not so much for herself but for others. This is not meant to judge her, but I am pondering the vanity of my own life, that so much of what I do for fun or joy is in vain, ultimately my own practice of the works of mercy are what give life, sustain life, are the key to an “eternal” life.

Having written the above, though, and “thinking with my typewriter” here, there is certainly something to be said for balance.

Thanks for your contributions. You have an outlook I find inspiring!

 

[Casilda]

To the OP:

Having come from a large family (dad was youngest of five, mom #10 of 12) I have experienced a lot of deaths, now that I am over half a century. Most died peacefully. Mom died suddenly after a life of giving. Dad struggled to keep doing what he loved, gardening, fishing. In those things he was generous, always sharing with others God’s bounty. He had a chronic illness that quickly zapped his life. He fought it with everything he had. Either me or my sister were with him the last months of his life, also nieces and nephews and cousins. Our Spanish/Catholic culture values life even after the last breath has been drawn. After the death of our elders, the rest of the family clings to each other more closely. Knowing we may be the next God calls. This is the cycle of life, not man-made distractions of travel, fame or fortune.

 

[boomerang]

Hi Rosebud,

My focus was on “what gives us life”. What I am observing is that when people struggle at the end of life and give up, but a change attitude would actually do wonders, what do people have to look forward to? If my focus has been on “that next thing I will buy” or “that next trip”, these things will not ultimately give me life, because the focus is on what gives me pleasure in a more material sense.