Do you stay in your church because of culture

[PattyPryor]

I was talking to my Deacon friend a few days ago and we brought up a few things. One of which is that culture keeps us at certain churches. I’m not just saying Catholic but other churches and religions as well.

I can say that because I was Catholic for 98% of my life and 2% LDS that coming back to the Catholic church was not only because of the euchorist but because of the culture. I know that will upset some of you but it is true.

I really believe most of us miss the culture more than the actual religion. Now I’m not saying that religion isn’t important but that if you grow up with a religion and it is all you know and everyone around you is that religion or respects your religion it is a culture.

You can agree or disagree but many stay a certain religion even if they don’t believe in it 100% because of the culture.

 

[Selene]

I was talking to my Deacon friend a few days ago and we brought up a few things. One of which is that culture keeps us at certain churches. I’m not just saying Catholic but other churches and religions as well.

I can say that because I was Catholic for 98% of my life and 2% LDS that coming back to the Catholic church was not only because of the euchorist but because of the culture. I know that will upset some of you but it is true.

I really believe most of us miss the culture more than the actual religion. Now I’m not saying that religion isn’t important but that if you grow up with a religion and it is all you know and everyone around you is that religion or respects your religion it is a culture.

You can agree or disagree but many stay a certain religion even if they don’t believe in it 100% because of the culture.

Hello Patty,

There is a Korean Catholic Church on my island, and most of the people there attending are Koreans because the Mass is said in the Korean language. Most Koreans here speak little or no English. I’m sure the same thing happens in Japan. There is also a Catholic Church in Japan, and my priest who is from there has learned to speak and write the Japanese language mainly because to get converts, one has to communicate in their language. In my church, sometimes we sing in our native language (which is Chamorro) but Mass is conducted in English because the younger generation grew up learning English, and we are also getting people outside our culture.

My people were not originally Catholics. Spain controlled my island for almost 300 years. As a result, the Spanish left their legacy here, and Catholicism was one of their legacy. The religion of my long ago ancestors was ancestral worship. We did not worship any gods nor know who Christ was until the Spanish came here. However, the Spanish was unable to completely destroy the religion of my long-ago ancestors even until this day. Today, many of my people still respect the old religion whenever we enter the jungles. We still ask our ancestor spirits permission to enter the jungles. That has been ingrained in our culture so much that it is very difficult to get rid of it despite the fact that our priest has told us many times to stop asking the spirits permission. He said that the spirits should be the ones asking us permission.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[BrianH]

Sure it matters a great deal.
I am in a different denomination than what I attended in my youth. I miss the music the most (gospel hymns). However, now that I have been a Methodist for a while (15 years), anything else seems quite odd. So yes. We associate church with what we know and that is hard to break. My brother who converted to Catholicism many years ago just now is starting to feel comfortable…well actually three converted but thats a long story…

 

[Dale_M]

Here in the US, half of Catholics attend mass only a few times a year, or less, even though weekly attendance is an obligation. In fact, less than 25% of Catholics attend mass weekly.
cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/massattendweek.pdf

Its even worse in Spain, where 76% of the population is Catholic and half don’t attend mass. Only 14% attend mass weekly as the Catholic faith requires.
barcelonareporter.com/index.php?/news/comments/11792/

So why do these persons who rarely attend mass still identify as Catholic? I think the cultural attachment is important to their self-identity.

 

[kalt]

I was talking to my Deacon friend a few days ago and we brought up a few things. One of which is that culture keeps us at certain churches. I’m not just saying Catholic but other churches and religions as well.

I can say that because I was Catholic for 98% of my life and 2% LDS that coming back to the Catholic church was not only because of the euchorist but because of the culture. I know that will upset some of you but it is true.

I really believe most of us miss the culture more than the actual religion. Now I’m not saying that religion isn’t important but that if you grow up with a religion and it is all you know and everyone around you is that religion or respects your religion it is a culture.

You can agree or disagree but many stay a certain religion even if they don’t believe in it 100% because of the culture.

I think it’s easier to join and stay in a church that is respected in the community. I live in a very Catholic area, and being Catholic is not a challenge. We’re lucky that way in the US. Though there is an anti-Catholic vibe in much of non-Catholic America, we aren’t persecuted. Imagine trying to be openly Catholic in the Middle East!

It has to be easier to belong to the LDS in SLC than it is to be something else.

That people miss the culture of the religion as much as the doctrine is proof that human beings need more than a book.

 

[kalt]

Here in the US, half of Catholics attend mass only a few times a year, or less, even though weekly attendance is an obligation. In fact, less than 25% of Catholics attend mass weekly.
cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/massattendweek.pdf

Its even worse in Spain, where 76% of the population is Catholic and half don’t attend mass. Only 14% attend mass weekly as the Catholic faith requires.
barcelonareporter.com/index.php?/news/comments/11792/

So why do these persons who rarely attend mass still identify as Catholic? I think the cultural attachment is important to their self-identity.

People don’t always live up to their own ideals. Look at all the “Smiths” who don’t attend to their families very well. They still consider themselves a Smith, though, and no one would argue with them. Who would say John Smith isn’t a true Smith, just because he doesn’t attend the weekly family meal?

 

[hansard]

Changing from one faith tradition to another is still comparatively rare (not unheard of, just rare). It’s generally true that “once a Jew, always a Jew”, and the same applies to the other monolithic faiths as well as the mystical, eastern faiths.
Imagine, in some countries, if a young Muslim man wanted to convert to Judaism or Christianity. It just would not happen or, at least, it must be so rare. I wonder what the stats on this would be?
Culture, country, family tradition–these are everything.

Within Christianity, there are some trends, at least in Australia where I live. We have a solid mix of Irish, Italian and other European Catholics, and proportionate numbers of the other Christian faiths.
Catholics tend to not change demonination. Anglicans are slightly more likely than Catholics to convert to other Christian faiths.
The “denomination group” with the largest rate of conversion (both in and out) is Pentecostalism. Many people switch easily between the Pentecostal churches, but tend not to convert to the traditional Christian faiths.

Within Catholicism, the worrying trend (as noted above in this thread) is the tendency towards a watered-down faith, an indifferent brand of secularism among those claiming to be Catholic. According to a study, 15% of Catholics attended Mass regularly. The figure is much higher for some of the smaller denominations and, of course, varies greatly according to age. (National Church Life Survey, 2001)

Sorry for all this rambling.

Yes, culture is the main factor in a person staying within thier religious tradition. For intra-faith switching (within, say, Christianity) there could be marital, family, employment or personal factors.

 

[PhiJ]

Well, I think I’ll be the first person to disagree (to this extent).

I’m a christian because I believe christianity to be true. I worry sometimes that I’m a christian because I was brought up that way, and that this is irrespective of whether or not it is true, but I try to be careful and to think about my faith and other faiths, and also to talk with people from other faiths. I do not do this enough. At all. Sometimes I’m utterly convinced it’s true; if I’m honest, sometimes I’m full of doubts. But I’m a christian because the evidence I see and have seen points to christianity being correct. The slice of evidence that I have seen is based on my culture and upbringing, and I try to bear this in mind.

You’ll find that I get really passionate when I talk about the church.

Again it’s based on my upbringing, but I would be staying in my church (if I wasn’t just in the process of moving cities) because I believe we’re building the church biblically. You know, every church is (or at least should be) intending to be a ‘perfect church’, the ‘church that christ intended it to be’. We are too. I see people around me taking the bible seriously and acting on it. In areas like prophecy where to be honest I often feel too afraid to even ask God to give me the gift. I see church leadership being done biblically and when I hear of how it is done in some (not all) other churches I get confused. I love the fact that we are part of a group of churches (called newfrontiers) who are pushing into unreached peoplegroups and reaching the poor and seem to have a biblical vision: I think I shall move to another newfrontiers church when I finish moving.

Yes, the culture is what I am used to, and in choosing a new church (imagine I didn’t have an obvious choice in the next city) it’s hard to tell what a church is like in one or two visits, and I’d feel more comfortable in a church which is similar to mine. I hope that if I didn’t have an obvious choice I’d go to a church for which most people in it are different to me - God wants a diverse church - people from every tribe and tounge and nation (and it appears, people from every different background within a nation), but I’m scared I’d go with what I’m comfortable with.

Yes my church has problems: I don’t particularly like it when we are all instucted to praise God separately, and all of us praying in tounges at once looks unbiblical to me. Yes, all of us are human, and when put in a position where I feel I need to defend my church I often can remember the good bits and forget the bad. Hence this short paragraph.

I suppose I have theological reasons for staying with my church too. God is building a living temple for himself in Bristol and I am a stone in that temple. He has built me into the church that I am part of, and leaving is not ideal. I want him to make us into a beautiful temple for his spirit to dwell in. Oh Lord make us spotless, and beautiful. You died so that you might have your church on this earth.

Now that I’ve written this post I’m feeling rather worked up and passionate. I hope I haven’t tangented too far, but yes, the reason i stay in my church is not directly cultural.

 

[ricko]

I had wandered away from the Catholic Church and had started reading the bible for the first time, from cover to cover. I attended all of the churches in the area to at least see what they were like and teaching. Then the more I read the bible I started to think “what do I need a religion for, I got the bible”. So I continued reading and by this time was into the NT. The more I read the more I realized that I was wrong. I read “Thou are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church”. I asked all the people I had met from the other religions what this verse meant. They almost all replied that it was either EVERY Christian church or their church. Yet I knew this could not be true as they all taught different things and the bible says there is only one Truth. Then I started reading Catholic books about the history of the Church and realized that I had always been in the Church that Jesus founded but had left. There was only one thing to do and that was to return Home!

 

[RebeccaJ]

You can agree or disagree but many stay a certain religion even if they don’t believe in it 100% because of the culture.

I have known people who convert to religions in order to be of the same culture as the person they are marrying. People who have told me they don’t believe in the religion itself, they just want to be part of the culture and have their children be part of the culture. Mainly because an entire extended family is that same religion.

For myself, a convert to Catholicism, I believe the religion 100%. The culture, I am usually lost. On the other hand, I fit into the atheist culture I converted from, very naturally and very easily. But the religious beliefs (or lack thereof), I don’t accept at all.

It is similar from when I left the LDS for atheism. It took quite a while to get it together, culturally speaking.

 

[PhiJ]

ricko:

I read “Thou are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church”. I asked all the people I had met from the other religions what this verse meant. They almost all replied that it was either EVERY Christian church or their church.

Funny, I’ve always been taught that that is a complete misinterpretation of that verse. That Peter (petros, the masculine word) means a small rock chipped off a boulder, and that ‘this rock’ (petra, the feminnine word) has a subtly different meaning, and would have meant the rock from which petros was chipped. It referred to the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God.

This also makes sense (to me - not a greek scholar) in that Jesus says this (referring to the revelation) in the previous sentance, so it works if Peter doesn’t mean anything (of course, the pun on Peter is very important, I’m not denying that). I do know that greek words are masculine, feminine or neuter, so it makes sense to a layman like me that the feminine and masculine words would have different meanings.

[edit]Oh I see, which church, not which church is built upon Peter. maybe I have tunnel vision sometimes[/edit]

 

[kalt]

I have known people who convert to religions in order to be of the same culture as the person they are marrying. People who have told me they don’t believe in the religion itself, they just want to be part of the culture and have their children be part of the culture. Mainly because an entire extended family is that same religion.

For myself, a convert to Catholicism, I believe the religion 100%. The culture, I am usually lost. On the other hand, I fit into the atheist culture I converted from, very naturally and very easily. But the religious beliefs (or lack thereof), I don’t accept at all.

It is similar from when I left the LDS for atheism. It took quite a while to get it together, culturally speaking.

One of my great-grandfathers converted to Catholicism from a Protestant church (no idea which one) because he wanted to be buried with his wife.

 

[RebeccaJ]

One of my great-grandfathers converted to Catholicism from a Protestant church (no idea which one) because he wanted to be buried with his wife.

Interesting.

I was thinking of this woman I knew who converted to mormonism, but didn’t really believe it at all. Her husband was mormon, his entire family was as well, and she moved from Germany to Utah. She had no family in the states but her husband’s. All her mormon in-laws doing the mormon blessings, baptisms, and endless activities that mormons have…she didn’t want her children to be the odd ones out. (The “when in Rome” approach to living in Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

[Siddhartha]

Interesting.

I was thinking of this woman I knew who converted to mormonism, but didn’t really believe it at all.

I’m sure she believed in some aspects of Mormonism, like the Golden Rule, aiding the poor, family values, the centrality of Jesus Christ, et cetera.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m sure she believed in some aspects of Mormonism, like the Golden Rule, aiding the poor, family values, the centrality of Jesus Christ, et cetera.

Perhaps. What started the conversation was tattoos. lol. She had a new large one on her tummy. Which, for mormons, is whoa! She lifted up her shirt, and mormon garments, to show it to me and another woman. I about fell over, as she had all sorts of “mormons don’t do” going on there. She said she didn’t believe anything about the mormon temple ceremony, or any of the beliefs about Joseph Smith. Just wanted her kids to fit, is all. I didn’t delve any further than that.

 

[katy]

I do know that greek words are masculine, feminine or neuter, so it makes sense to a layman like me that the feminine and masculine words would have different meanings.

Not a Greek scholar, but Greek words do have gender. Petra would be the actual word for rock that has a feminine ending, but would not do for the name of a male human. Hence the change.

 

[AlegreFe]

I was talking to my Deacon friend a few days ago and we brought up a few things. One of which is that culture keeps us at certain churches. I’m not just saying Catholic but other churches and religions as well.

I can say that because I was Catholic for 98% of my life and 2% LDS that coming back to the Catholic church was not only because of the euchorist but because of the culture. I know that will upset some of you but it is true.

I really believe most of us miss the culture more than the actual religion. Now I’m not saying that religion isn’t important but that if you grow up with a religion and it is all you know and everyone around you is that religion or respects your religion it is a culture.

You can agree or disagree but many stay a certain religion even if they don’t believe in it 100% because of the culture.

I can assuredly say NO to your question. I stay in the Catholic Church because it is the Church that Jesus started. My desire for Christ is stronger than any culture one can have. I don’t need culture to get into Heaven. But I do need Jesus Christ.

 

[PhiJ]

AlegreFe:

Petra would be the actual word for rock that has a feminine ending, but would not do for the name of a male human.

That’s quite an assumption. And it appears that it is incorrect. Petra and petros were both greek words for different types of rocks. I must emphasise that I’m arguing from authority here, but here is a website that makes the point I’m trying to (although it’s coded badly, so their apostrophes don’t render) and, for the sake of ‘balance’ (which is often overrated, but seems worth it here) here’s a website that disagrees.

 

[LilyM]

The whole Petra/Petros debate entirely ignores the fact that Jesus would’ve been speaking in Aramaic anyway.

So Our Lord would’ve said ‘I tell thee, thou art Kepha (Cephas), and upon this kepha (cephas) I will build my church’. Same word used twice, each time with the same meaning.

 

[Aramis]

I stay Cathlic because of the last chapter of John, and timelining out the post resurrection events in the gospels. “Feed My Sheep.” Not a charge share with the others.

I’m in a different tradition than I was raised, however.

It’s a fair thing to say that culture has little to do with my remaining Catholic; it would be far easier to be secular humanist or even social darwinist in today’s society. Even Pagan is more easily accepted now than Catholic or Orthodox.

Logic keeps me Catholic. History makes me go Byzantine. Location makes that choice simple: Ruthenian. Joy keeps me willingly going not out of duty, but the fullness of the praxis meeting my human needs so that I may be able to benefit from the graces of the liturgy.