Do you strugggle with Forgiveness?

[PJM]

What does Christ mean in teaching all of us the "Lords prayer?

“Forgives us our trasspasses as we forgive those who traspass against us.?”

 

[Ophelia23]

Sometimes I struggle with it, which is why I have to say the Lord’s Prayer several times in a day. It’s a lot of hard work to forgive transgressions sometimes!

 

[littlenothing]

He means we should forgive “7 times 77 times”, as it says somewhere in the Bible. And to the extent that we do, we also will be forgiven. Kind of scary, isn’t it?

 

[Ophelia23]

It’s definitely proof that the call to holiness requires a deep change of self. I think it is difficult for most people to forgive when left to our own devices… but when we give in and surrender our will to be in accordance with His will, that is when it starts to really fall together.

 

[englishredrose]

It can mean

our actions speak louder than our words and whilst we may find it easy to forgive someone a few times for errors or even big things, because we are human our limit is quite small in actual fact and how many times do we or have heard how ‘we are not going to speak to them again because of what they did to us’ even though we have possibly outwardly forgiven them even to them. Our actions tell on us when we call it a day as such with them What Christ means that this little scenario with people would never happen if we properly forgive because we wouldn’t hold it against them and hurt them with it when they are on a downer. If we were really friends we wouldn’t want to hurt our friend even more.

We want and like being forgiven and know how easy it is to seek forgiveness of Christ but yet we find it so hard to forgive others so that we do not hold it against them ever.

someone appears in the news for raping or murdering, do we mutter how evil they are or do we actuallly forgive them…? Yet we would seek to be forgiven by Christ if it was actually us that have committed the crime.

I think we be liars if we didn’t struggle with forgiveness, though it may be through that we never really had to try because we don’t know anyone that lets us down over and over again because we walk away from those people before too many times, but is that forgivess really. So I think most of us really do struggle with Christlike Forgiveness though we 100% expect and want it for ourselves from God wouldn’t you all say?

 

[Robertanthony]

Yes I do and I usually win!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I think it means like in the St. Francis prayer: “it is in pardoning that we are pardoned.”

When we hold a grudge against someone, it binds us to the anxiety and anger or frustration or whatever other feelings that come with holding the grudge. When we release that grudge, it actually releases the grip on us, not the person we had the grudge against. So when we pardon another person, it lets go of our own bondage to negative feelings.

 

[PJM]

=englishredrose;10670844]It can mean

our actions speak louder than our words and whilst we may find it easy to forgive someone a few times for errors or even big things, because we are human our limit is quite small in actual fact and how many times do we or have heard how ‘we are not going to speak to them again because of what they did to us’ even though we have possibly outwardly forgiven them even to them. Our actions tell on us when we call it a day as such with them What Christ means that this little scenario with people would never happen if we properly forgive because we wouldn’t hold it against them and hurt them with it when they are on a downer. If we were really friends we wouldn’t want to hurt our friend even more.

We want and like being forgiven and know how easy it is to seek forgiveness of Christ but yet we find it so hard to forgive others so that we do not hold it against them ever.

someone appears in the news for raping or murdering, do we mutter how evil they are or do we actuallly forgive them…? Yet we would seek to be forgiven by Christ if it was actually us that have committed the crime.

I think we be liars if we didn’t struggle with forgiveness, though it may be through that we never really had to try because we don’t know anyone that lets us down over and over again because we walk away from those people before too many times, but is that forgivess really. So I think most of us really do struggle with Christlike Forgiveness though we 100% expect and want it for ourselves from God wouldn’t you all say?

Thanks,

I especially enjoyed your final thoughts.

I have been blessed with an ability not to hold a grudge; but I know many who are not so blessed.

For me its “Thy Will BE DONE!” and its pretty much done.

What I find most amazing is how adament God IS on this issue. Tha my froends id profound.

 

[Robertanthony]

I think it means like in the St. Francis prayer: “it is in pardoning that we are pardoned.”

When we hold a grudge against someone, it binds us to the anxiety and anger or frustration or whatever other feelings that come with holding the grudge. When we release that grudge, it actually releases the grip on us, not the person we had the grudge against. So when we pardon another person, it lets go of our own bondage to negative feelings.

I think you’re spot on. It’s been said many times, to the extent that it’s become cliché, but “not forgiving someone is like drinking a poison and expecting the other person to die”.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

What does Christ mean in teaching all of us the "Lords prayer?

“Forgives us our trasspasses as we forgive those who traspass against us.?”

Yes, I have trouble forgiving peopele particularly my own father, who cost me more than anyone else by along shot.

I’ve said ad infinitum he appeared in my room the night he died, he started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this terrible scream and then disappeared.

I think he’s in Hell, going by the scream. Just sheer terror.

However during the exchange, he said at one time “Son, you’ve got to forgive me!” I argued back saying, “You treated me like dirt for 20 years, and now you want forgiveness!”

HIs somewhat urgent response was “Son, you’ve got to believe me! it’s for your benefit, not mine. It’s too late for me. If you don’t, you’ll destroy yourself!”

Despite this I still have trouble forgiving him, because of the cost.

One thing to note though - my father’s comment was that it was “not for (him). It was too late for (him).” It was for my benefit. And I suppose that’s what it boils down to in the end. Christ may have forgiven Caiaphas, Pilate and Herod, but I doubt very much if it did THEM any good in the end. SInce they died unrepentant as far as I know, His forgiveness would simply have made their judgement worse.

In Christ’s case, however, He was raised to the Father’s right hand.

Paul added a similar line that if you forgive your enemy, you pour hot coals on his head, from the point of view of his eternal judgement by God. That’s assuming your enemy doesn’t repent.

So it’s not easy, but resistance is academic, since the teaching is there in black and white in Scripture, and backed up by the parable of the unforgiving servant. Which incidentally, I think is another indication of the reality of Purgatory, as Christ assures us we will stay in prison until we have paid every last penny of our fine.

For some though, the fine may be unpayable.

 

[Irish_Cabbie]

Yes, I have trouble forgiving peopele particularly my own father, who cost me more than anyone else by along shot.

I’ve said ad infinitum he appeared in my room the night he died, he started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this terrible scream and then disappeared.

I think he’s in Hell, going by the scream. Just sheer terror.

However during the exchange, he said at one time “Son, you’ve got to forgive me!” I argued back saying, “You treated me like dirt for 20 years, and now you want forgiveness!”

HIs somewhat urgent response was “Son, you’ve got to believe me! it’s for your benefit, not mine. It’s too late for me. If you don’t, you’ll destroy yourself!”

Despite this I still have trouble forgiving him, because of the cost.

One thing to note though - my father’s comment was that it was “not for (him). It was too late for (him).” It was for my benefit. And I suppose that’s what it boils down to in the end. Christ may have forgiven Caiaphas, Pilate and Herod, but I doubt very much if it did THEM any good in the end. SInce they died unrepentant as far as I know, His forgiveness would simply have made their judgement worse.

In Christ’s case, however, He was raised to the Father’s right hand.

Paul added a similar line that if you forgive your enemy, you pour hot coals on his head, from the point of view of his eternal judgement by God. That’s assuming your enemy doesn’t repent.

So it’s not easy, but resistance is academic, since the teaching is there in black and white in Scripture, and backed up by the parable of the unforgiving servant. Which incidentally, I think is another indication of the reality of Purgatory, as Christ assures us we will stay in prison until we have paid every last penny of our fine.

For some though, the fine may be unpayable.

Bob, this was beautiful. Thanks for writing it. I needed to read it.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

However during the exchange, he said at one time “Son, you’ve got to forgive me!” I argued back saying, “You treated me like dirt for 20 years, and now you want forgiveness!”

HIs somewhat urgent response was “Son, you’ve got to believe me! it’s for your benefit, not mine. It’s too late for me. If you don’t, you’ll destroy yourself!”

Despite this I still have trouble forgiving him, because of the cost.

This vision is correct. Anything you judge, bonds you to itself using the emotional capital it takes to maintain a grudge. Remember “forgive” and “acquit” are two different things. Forgiving him, means you’re going to cut your losses and move on. Not forgiving him means you’re emotionally bonded to someone in hell. Is it possible you still love him through all that happened – or feel pity for him or something – to the extent that you wish he had endured a different fate?

Alan

 

[sirach2v4]

someone said that God does not expect a higher standard of us than he has.

He seems to want us to confess and repent of our sins. That’s a barrier for me, because I haven’t seen anybody do that, in my life.

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing.” Were they forgiven?

someone made me lose $2 million or thereabouts. Do I just say, “no problem.” Does this person owe me anythng?

What do you do with a person with a mental problem (sadism) who has no intention of stopping the abuse?

In past years, I heard Mother Angelica on EWTN and Father Benedict Groeschel say that we don’t have to allow ourselves to be treated like a rug.

Did Jesus forgive St. Peter for his garden betrayal? If he did, he nonetheless made Peter twist in the wind a little bit, by asking him repreatedly, “Do you love me?”

There’s lots to talk about. I am a coward when it comes to asking for forgiveness of others. I don’t even want to remind anybody of what I’ve done.

I feel damaged by the international sex abuse scandal in the Church. Nobody’s apologized to me yet for that.

I was psychogically abused by overbearing nuns and teachers in Catholic grade school. Look it up: anybody at any age can be afflicted by post-traumatic stress disorder. I think Catholic school was very traumatic, at times.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Going to the original Question…

Yes there was a time I really struggled with forgiveness....

it may have lasted at least 20 years… I really could not do it… it was against my brother…
And I felt absolute shame that I could not bring myself to forgive…
Because of what he did against me, the physical and mental abuse I received from him over our entire lives , I truly despised him, and I felt such shame,no matter what I did… the hurt was so great… even years apart made no difference… I suffered as much by my own feeling against him as the actual abuse… it was torture to me to feel that way…
I really needed counselling but never seeked it… then a few years ago he came to me and said he now realised what he had done to me, and sincerely apologised… it has still taked time but I feel as though I have now forgiven him

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Holding a grudge is letting someone live rent-free in your head!”

 

[Joy2day]

Forgiveness is different to returning to the original situation willingly with no guarantee of change. Forgiveness is a matter of the heart & is not necessarily proven by external actions. We have a duty to ourselves - to protect & respect ourselves - & continually ‘forgiving’ those who abuse us in these ways is contrary to this duty. Forgiveness occurs when we are more attached to Christ than other things. But Christ has never expected us to throw ourselves in the lion’s den repeatedly. For that is not Love.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I do struggle with forgivness.

I think that as long as I am hurt over something that I can’t truly forgive. The two are connected. I can desire as much as I like to forgive but something deep down inside is still screaming in anger and pain and is an obstacle. I think that the first step in forgiving is praying for healing.

Maybe it will get easier with time.

 

[PJM]

=Robertanthony;10672498]I think you’re spot on. It’s been said many times, to the extent that it’s become cliché, but “not forgiving someone is like drinking a poison and expecting the other person to die”.

Thank you; can I use your quote?

 

[1toolbox]

well it is interesting to see the western version of opinions –

but looking at the bible comenatry in liv 5

“If one commit a trespass … in the holy things of Jehovah …” The careless neglect of paying tithes, or the inadvertent offering of an unsuitable animal for sacrifice, and other types of sins would fall under this category. The penalty was next to the largest imposed by the sacrifices, a ram of the flock being a property of considerable value.

Furthermore, the appraisal of the ram was not left to the offerer but was to be made by the priests; and the mention of “shekels” in the plural indicated that it had to be of more than ordinary value. Two conditions were imposed in connection with this type of sacrifice, these being: (1) that a confession of sin was required, and (2) that restitution including a twenty percent penalty was demanded.

Regarding the name of the sacrifice here called trespass-offering, it is called guilt-offering in some versions; and Wenham cited examples of its being called “reparation-offering” and “compensation-offering.”[12] Although certain cases must have been very difficult to decide, as to whether a sin-offering or a trespass-offering was demanded, the vital distinction between the two sacrifices was primarily discernible in what each typified.

A second specific situation in which a sin-offering was required (Leviticus 5:2,3) was that of a person who unwittingly, or without his knowledge, became polluted by touching either an unclean object or an unclean person.

Some have expressed wonder as to how such violations could have occurred, but it was quite common.

For example, if one stepped upon a grave unintentionally, he was unclean by virtue of that action. In those times, when graves were not to be found exclusively in cemeteries, there were many who violated without any intention of it.

From this arose the custom of white-washing graves, as was done extensively in the days of Jesus Christ, a custom to which he referred when he called the Pharisees,

“whited sepulchres!” (Matthew 23:27-29).

Also, in the case of unclean animals, the touch could have come about through the movement or action of the animal, not by the one touched, being therefore an unintentional violation.

any way why struggle with unforgiveness-- ??

it is easy to find people christian or catholics – who have perverted opinions, LOL

and with out the Holy Spirit – they keep them--

 

[PJM]

=Contra Mundum;10673983]I do struggle with forgivness.

I think that as long as I am hurt over something that I can’t truly forgive. The two are connected. I can desire as much as I like to forgive but something deep down inside is still screaming in anger and pain and is an obstacle. I think that the first step in forgiving is praying for healing.

Maybe it will get easier with time.

Here’s an Old Catholic mans suggestion

When this happens:

1. ask the HS to help you. A Simple “Holy Spirit PLEASE help me” with this is sufficient
2. ask yourself: "who’s IN charge here?’ Me or God
3. Who DO I WANT to be in charge here? ''Me or God?"

I have found this to be quite effective in my life. Then be sure to THANK GOD!