Do you support the second amendment?

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

How murder and suicide figures plummeted in Australia after gun control laws were introduced

My regrets but murder and assault is UP in Australia following the gun confiscation/ban.

“With Australia’s population steadily increasing, the nation’s homicide incident rate has fallen even more than the number of homicides — from 1.6 per 100,000 in 1995-96 to 1 per 100,000 in 2013-2014, according to a government report on crime trends. That was the lowest homicide incident rate at the time in 25 years, as we mentioned earlier.”
Gun Control in Australia, Updated

 

[Duesenberg]

Moot point. They’ll never be widespread gun confiscation in the US. The US isn’t Australia (thanks be to God.)

 

[Vonsalza]

The overwhelming majority of surrenders during the buy-back was voluntary, if I read correctly. I don’t think ANYONE had their guns physically taken away from them.

But if the point was moot, why’d you challenge in the 1st place?

 

[phil19034]

There may be more Brits that die from blunt or sharp objects, but it doesn’t offset the lives saved through their gun control efforts.

Our murder rate is 4.88 per 100k.

Theirs? 0.92

True, but they have had a very homogeneous society for the past 100+ years and when they were a younger nation and more heterogeneous in their past, they were very violent.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

There may be more Brits that die from blunt or sharp objects, but it doesn’t offset the lives saved through their gun control efforts.

Our murder rate is 4.88 per 100k.

Theirs? 0.92

True, but they have had a very homogeneous society for the past 100+ years and when they were a younger nation and more heterogeneous in their past, they were very violent.

In the past, the whole world was more violent, imo

And I 'd be slow to call them homogenous after the rise of the Empire. Lots of folks came to London and the surrounds.

 

[Duesenberg]

Just exactly where do you live?

 

[jcrichton]

HI!

When this law went into it’s first draft several things were happening:

• The colonies had been fighting for their freedom of English rule
• The English monarch oppressed the colonies through forced indoctrination into providing house and food for its soldiers
• The English soldiers could kill the colonists at will
• The English soldiers would confiscate all weapons from the colonist which they would oppress
• There was no continental army or any organized body to defend the colonist from threads
• The rapid-fire weapon at hand was a short hand-held single round (an actual circular projectile) shooter that had to be prepped (powder, press powder, drop round, and light the fuse–quite a long shot from a hand-held that can fire multiple (30+ in some cases) rounds–as fast as 3 rounds per second)

Then we have the military, navy, coast guard, police… will the king of England stand a chance?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[phil19034]

Vonsalza:

How murder and suicide figures plummeted in Australia after gun control laws were introduced

My regrets but murder and assault is UP in Australia following the gun confiscation/ban.

True, but still didn’t have inner cities like some of ours until just recently. Some of the inner cities in the US are like third world nations.

if we can fix the issues in our inner cities, then we can change things.

Also the British never had level of racial/ethnic issues like we did (except the Catholic v Protestant issue in Northern Ireland). They never had ethnic ghettos until recently

Again, I would love to be proven wrong, but I don’t think that in America, taking guns away will stop murders in our inner cities, nor stop psychopaths (like in Las Vegas) from killing people. The guy in Vegas had equipment to make bombs.

NOTE: once again, I don’t own a gun and I don’t like them.

 

[Joe_5859]

NOTE: once again, I don’t own a gun and I don’t like them.

It’s sort of amusing. @Vonsalza owns and likes guns, and you do not. I feel like you guys should switch posts.

 

[Vonsalza]

phil19034:

NOTE: once again, I don’t own a gun and I don’t like them.

It’s sort of amusing. @Vonsalza owns and likes guns, and you do not. I feel like you guys should switch posts.

I know, right?
Just goes to show you, not everyone readily fits into the neat little stereotypical molds we’re used to.

 

[Vonsalza]

Also the British never had level of racial/ethnic issues like we did (except the Catholic v Protestant issue in Northern Ireland). They never had ethnic ghettos until recently

I humbly suggest that you reconsider this statement. The ethnic ghetto was very much a problem that accompanied the rise of their empire.

Again, I would love to be proven wrong, but I don’t think that in America, taking guns away will stop murders in our inner cities, nor stop psychopaths (like in Las Vegas) from killing people. The guy in Vegas had equipment to make bombs.

I think you’re right. The crazed person is unstoppable. But we can reduce the frequency of gun crime by making these things harder to get. And we can vacuum many of them off the street with a cash, no questions buyback program. Over time, the murder rates WILL drop; particularly due to buybacks.

NOTE: once again, I don’t own a gun and I don’t like them.

They’re not so bad. You can learn a lot looking at old guns.

 

[JonNC]

The overwhelming majority of surrenders during the buy-back was voluntary, if I read correctly. I don’t think ANYONE had their guns physically taken away from them.

Voluntary would mean no consequences if you chose not to. Are you saying that choosing to keep a firearm was okay? If not, it was as "voluntary " as federal income taxes here.

** Implementing Australia’s gun control policies first and foremost requires imposing Australia’s euphemistically named “gun buyback” program, the cornerstone of the country’s gun laws. As positive as a “buyback” program sounds, what gun control advocates often conveniently fail to note is that it only works if it is obligatory. The gun buyback is actually government-imposed gun confiscation. There is no opting out. You are handing over the gun that you own legally to the government, or else you will face the point of a gun. The only guns the Australian government allows their citizens to own mut be registered and permitted for specific purposes, and self-defense is not one of those government-sanctioned purposes. **

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21884/should-us-adopt-australias-gun-laws-heres-why-james-barrett

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

The overwhelming majority of surrenders during the buy-back was voluntary, if I read correctly. I don’t think ANYONE had their guns physically taken away from them.

Voluntary would mean no consequences if you chose not to.

No, Jon. Voluntary simply means “done of one’s own free will”. It does not mean “without consequence”.

You don’t get to change the definition of words to help your argument.

And there were talking heads in Australia that also said “it’ll never work”; right up until it did. But they didn’t change their minds, they just became deniers at that point.

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Just exactly where do you live?

I’m not going to give my exact location on a public forum, but as I’ve said elsewhere, I’m in the UK. I’ve also said I’m not American, and consider this an internal matter for them, albeit not one I understand. So I’m a little non-plussed by your reaction.

 

[JonNC]

No, Jon. Voluntary simply means “done of one’s own free will”. It does not mean “without consequence”.

Giving up the firearms was not of one’s own free will. It was required by law. You don’t get to change the history of the actual event in order to convince people it was"voluntary", in that they got to choose to keep or turn in the firearm.

 

[Jamie5]

US gun laws: Why it won't follow New Zealand's lead

A mass shooting in New Zealand has led to an assault-weapon ban six days later, drawing contrasts with the US.

www.bbc.com

 

[phil19034]

I humbly suggest that you reconsider this statement. The ethnic ghetto was very much a problem that accompanied the rise of their empire.

I guess, you are correct here - I didn’t really mean that they had no ghettos. But from what I know, they still never had ethnic ghettos to the same extent as the US. Even during the empire days, they never had the same levels of immigration that we had during the 1800s. But, if I’m wrong, I gladly stand corrected.

And we can vacuum many of them off the street with a cash, no questions buyback program. Over time, the murder rates WILL drop; particularly due to buybacks.

I have no problem with this. Have all the volunteer, no questions asked buyback programs you want. I think that’s a fine idea. Just don’t have a mandatory buyback program.

They’re not so bad. You can learn a lot looking at old guns.

I’ve shot a “baby” riffle a few times at a riffle range when in the Boy Scouts. We had to lay down, use glasses and ear phones to shoot the targets. I also went skeet shooting once with a shotgun when in the Scouts. I will admit, that was fun. I then tied the Scoutmaster’s shotgun and almost fell back - that thing had a serious recoil!

If I was ever to buy a gun, it would be a riffle or shotgun only. I would never feel comfortable with a hand gun or AR-15

God Bless

 

[upant]

Really? You are going to throw fake news at me?

they’re australian news sites. i don’t know if it is fakenews or not. i didn’t know they were associated with cnn. the info can be googled for verification.

We simply don’t have gangs here in the great tradition of your American gangs.

were there arrest of ms-13 cartel members or not. you can’t change the facts.

call the gang a club if you want it is the same thing: an outlaw organization

Can we get back to the topic of this thread

just answering your statement about gun control in australia.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I’m sure he didn’t mean exact location. It used to be that people could say their gender (M/F, of course), location (usually country or state or big city like NYC) and religion on the old site and I think not having that info has caused some problems.

I know that if I see someone from the UK (where I lived once) versus the USA that perspectives are different.

 

[upant]

my response is for america. however it fits most countries in general. the rich aren’t stopped by laws. they pay for ways around them. in new york city concealed carry is almost impossible for the regular person but the wealthy are all protected by bodyguards carrying concealed.

in australia ymmv