Do you support the second amendment?

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We are doing something wrong and United Kingdom, Japan, and South Korea are doing something right?

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JonNC said:
Let’s get the UN to try to disarm them.
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Absolutely! We need to oppose all who are promoting the proliferation of death, foreign and domestic. Pope Emeritus Benedict expanded this obligation of the developed world to the protect the lives of those in the undeveloped countries. We could even argue, debate and support different positions on that, if that was the topic here, and some who are opposite sides here, might be in agreement on that topic.
 
MonteRCMS said:
Gangsters are anything but poor.
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Who’s talking about 1920s and 1930s period movie tropes?

I’m talking about actual people committing the crimes.

The great majority are near or below the poverty level.

“Gangsters”? What are you even talking about?
 
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Without defining what you mean by “gangsters”, I cannot know what you are thinking, but true organized crime types are the smallest of subset of criminals, Another minority, though a large percentage of criminals, are those who have never intended to commit a crime, and are as normal as all who post here (with a couple of exceptions), yet commit a heinous crime in a moment of passion or despair. This is why any slogan or witty retort that lumps “criminals” together is counterproductive in developing real policy solutions.
 
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Vonsalza said:
Most gun crime is committed by poor people. A $100 per year permit for, say, anything self-loading would save lives.
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this is the real reason for gun control. control of the poor. why not just bring back stop and frisk? you are targeting the same population.
Vonsalza said:
“make it harder for anyone to own guns”.
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it is already illegal for criminals to purchase guns but it hasn’t stopped them. permits and wait times are not proven to do reduce crime. see the study i posted above. the studies that support it were low sample studies. higher sample studies show no effect.
 
now take the gang controlled cities out of the us total and see where we line up. i think someone posted the actual data above.
 
pnewton said:
oppose all who are promoting the proliferation of death, foreign and domestic
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what penalty should isis face for beheading christians and apostate muslims? keep them in gitmo till we get a president that releases them to wage jihad again?
 
Hi, Joshua!

This is exactly the road they don’t want to travel–it’s like politicians always making deals that will keep them out of prison or the lose of their 100% retirement packages. Making such demands would bite them on the butt when they get caught doing the same thing that they institute laws against.

It is the same reason why “white collar” criminals go to clubs and vacation spots instead of actual prisons.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Well, they view crime differently and they make it less profitable (unless you’ve deep pockets, of course).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
  1. A lot of these countries are culturally homogenous, certainly more so than the USA It is the culture, not the government that determines most of this.
  2. A lot of violence that occurs in those nations happens with other weapons such as knives and vehicles.
 
jcrichton

Hi, Joshua!

This is exactly the road they don’t want to travel–it’s like politicians always making deals that will keep them out of prison or the lose of their 100% retirement packages. Making such demands would bite them on the butt when they get caught doing the same thing that they institute laws against.

It is the same reason why “white collar” criminals go to clubs and vacation spots instead of actual prisons.
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Yes I know, I live 10 miles from one of those Luxury Prisons. It is located at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery Alabama. I’ve stayed in Resort Condo’s less extravagant.

en.wikipedia.org

Federal Prison Camp, Montgomery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Look at the bottom of the list of notables…Does a name look familiar?
 
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upant said:
if they are buying a gun to kill someone they already face the possibility of a death penalty if they use it for that purpose. it hasn’t been much of a deterrent…
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Much different from making it a Felony punishable by Death for buyer and seller not following the rules.
 
upant said:
this is the real reason for gun control. control of the poor.
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“Control the poor”? Why does it always have to be some tin-foil conspiracy???

Why can’t it just be “poor people commit most gun crime, so make it harder for poor folks to get guns”?
it is already illegal for criminals to purchase guns but it hasn’t stopped them. permits and wait times are not proven to do reduce crime.
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The The National Academy of Sciences certainly disagrees. Study after study have come out in support of it and we have the tremendous benefit of seeing the real results of certain gun laws in nations actually trying them.

You literally could not be more incorrect. Please rephrase your objection here to “permits and wait times are not proven to do reduce crime in a way I’m willing to accept”.
 
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“Vonsalza said:
Unfortunately, it seems that the answers that actually works is “make it harder for anyone to own guns”.
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The problem is that it doesn’t work. We don’t do that because others abuse other activities, even in the area of things that are not constitutionally protected rights. We do not make it more difficult to buy a car or get a driver’s license, for instance, because someone else speeds or drives drunk. There are not layers of restrictions for the law abiding who want to buy an Iphone because others test and drive or traffic in child porn.
Through permitting and wait times, lawful owners can still obtain their firearms and crime rates DO drop. There’s just too much data to make any claim otherwise.
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The toughest gun laws are in DC and Chicago, and gun violence is still incredibly high there. The gun laws were so strict against the law abiding that twice in the last 20 years the Supreme Court has had to step in and restore the right of the law abiding citizen. Meanwhile, gangs continue to get guns illegally.
The issue is not gun laws. The issue is crime.
Most gun crime is committed by poor people. A $100 per year permit for, say, anything self-loading would save lives.
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Sounds like poll taxes to me. What other constitutionally protected right would you be okay with having a permit for. How about the protection from search and seizure? $100 a year and the police need a warrant. Otherwise… Or better yet, $100 a year as a shield against cruel and unusual punishment.
If you are willing to do it to one enumerated right, why not another.
And why are you particularly targeting the poor? Otis MacDonald lived in the Morgan Park neighborhood of Chicago. He went all the way to the Supreme Court to get back his right to protect himself and family from the armed gangs in the streets.
And, frankly, if a $100 per year permit is a little too stiff, you can’t afford to actually shoot anyway. My buddies and I blow twice that in ammo on a Saturday at the range.
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It is rather elitist, don’t you think? Let’s make it harder for that poor woman who lives in the city and has to walk 3 blocks home in the dark.

It is amazing to me how some believe, on the one hand that to define healthcare a right, government has to provide, while on the other want to limit an enumerated right.
We must make them harder to obtain, Jon. Period.
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Not for the law abiding.
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The bigger part of this question is How do you actually stop “Law Abiding Citizens” like Stephen Paddock from doing what he did. Before he did what he did, He was the Perfect “Law Abiding Citizen”. Like it or not!!!
 
pnewton said:
Absolutely! We need to oppose all who are promoting the proliferation of death, foreign and domestic. Pope Emeritus Benedict expanded this obligation of the developed world to the protect the lives of those in the undeveloped countries. We could even argue, debate and support different positions on that, if that was the topic here, and some who are opposite sides here, might be in agreement on that topic.
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Great! Let me know when that’s done, then we can talk. Back a few posts I gave my prerequisites for giving up my right to keep and bear arms.
 
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