Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

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This is a very sad headline… and a shame.



There are far too many (nominally) Catholic (and Orthodox) politicians who are in this camp.

This American Orthodox Institute blog is a favourite of mine. Its founder actually actually contributes articles now to Catholic.com, and one of his bete noir’s is politicians of that ilk. Check out the March 8 entry, and he has a particular axe to grind with Greek hierarchs who leave their views unchallenged and even honour them with awards.

aoiusa.org/blog/
 
Young_Thinker said:
I really think is time for the Orthodox Christians to come “home.” The mutual anathemas between Rome and Constantinople were revoked about 40 years ago.
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I wasn’t aware that most Orthodox Christians ever lived in Rome.
 
Formosus said:
I wasn’t aware that most Orthodox Christians ever lived in Rome.
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I meant for them to return to the Catholic Church. As for them actually living in Rome, remember that Sicily and Sardinia once were a part of the Byzantine Empire. The Eastern Orthodox Christians after the schism were, of course, still Eastern Romans. Aside from this, I like your pseudonym. It is rather sad how so many Popes have essentially been forgotten.
 
Young_Thinker said:
I meant for them to return to the Catholic Church. As for them actually living in Rome, remember that Sicily and Sardinia once were a part of the Byzantine Empire. The Eastern Orthodox Christians after the schism were, of course, still Eastern Romans. Aside from this, I like your pseudonym. It is rather sad how so many Popes have essentially been forgotten.
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We never left the Catholic Church. Rome left the Catholic Church. Hopefully one day it will return.
 
trophybearer said:
We never left the Catholic Church. Rome left the Catholic Church. Hopefully one day it will return.
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Yes, it is a historical fact that Rome was the first one to anathematise and excommunicate Michael Cerularius in 1054.
However, it is now 1000 years later and even though it seems highly improbable at this point, I would hope the dialog would continue to find a way to get these two branches of Christianity on good terms with each other.
 
I’m sure Orthodox Christians in Ireland are standing in line to “come home to Rome”. Yeah Right!. Until Rome cleans it’s own house unity will never happen.
 
Young_Thinker said:
I meant for them to return to the Catholic Church. As for them actually living in Rome, remember that Sicily and Sardinia once were a part of the Byzantine Empire. The Eastern Orthodox Christians after the schism were, of course, still Eastern Romans. Aside from this, I like your pseudonym. It is rather sad how so many Popes have essentially been forgotten.
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As an EO poster already said, they didn’t ever leave home 🤷 . Even Rome was part of the Eastern Empire at one point, but political boundaries aren’t identical to ecclesiastical ones : p . Lol yeah I always thought the fate of Pope Formosus was a tad bit amusing (in a sort of macabre sense).
 
Formosus said:
As an EO poster already said, they didn’t ever leave home 🤷 . Even Rome was part of the Eastern Empire at one point, but political boundaries aren’t identical to ecclesiastical ones : p . Lol yeah I always thought the fate of Pope Formosus was a tad bit amusing (in a sort of macabre sense).
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Thank you, but, unless one counts when St. Peter was in Jerusalem and the Medieval capitivity in Avignon, the leaders of the Church have always been in Rome. Constantine, whom is considered to be a saint(even though he was apparently baptized on his deathbed by an Arian) along with Justinian I by the Orthodox(I am not saying this to be petty), made the mistake of moving the Empire’s capital to Byzantium. Then, in 395, the Roman
East and West were separated for the last time. However, 200 years before that, St. Victor I had asserted the authority of the Bishop of Rome.
 
trophybearer said:
We never left the Catholic Church. Rome left the Catholic Church. Hopefully one day it will return.
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For one thing, the Catholic Church would be severely damaged by an Orientalesque ecclesiastical structure(i.e. the Patriarch of Constantinople is only an ecumenical First among Equals, not a true overlord; also akin to the [currently liberal] Archbishop of Canterbury’s weak position). That is not to mention that, for a millenium, the Orthodox Church was imposed upon by the Byzantine Emperor, and that in Russia was not strong enough to resist being directly taken over by Peter the Great(who abolished the local Patriarchate). Meanwhile, the Popes fought hard for dominance and usually refused to be controlled by anyone, not by an emperor and nor by radical reformers like Martin Luther.
 
Barbieflausa said:
its time for everybody to “Come Home” and this WILL happen by The Power of The Holy Spirit…“when the saints go marching in…Oh I want to be in that number…when the saints go marching in…” As someone raised in BOTH churches…every family meal at our house is a meeting of East+West…sure peas are thrown every now and then…and someone gets a time out…but in Our House…there is room for everyone…even if the kids eat at their own table…😃
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Yes, I believe that someone should actual supremacy and not be, say, President of the World Churches(I am glad that the Catholic Church has never joined that organization). The lasting remnants of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires should be reunited, not territorially(I am very much against the E.U., by the way) but through their Churches. There is, of course, not a schism in Paradise.
 
CDNowak said:
The problem is that it is not that simple. The exercise of the papacy has changed drastically in that time, and most of the West’s development in philosophy and theology occurred in the scholastic age (which began a century after the split).

The near-millennium of impaired communications has resulted in significantly different understandings of some of the core beliefs of the faith. In my lifetime, I hope to see the beginning of the intense dialogue (like that currently underway with the SSPX) over these differences, but they may very well take another 100 years to come to the point of full communion (not submission). Or if God wills, the process could happen in the next 25, as far as recognition of the Sacraments and shared communion :byzsoc: :crossrc:
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I know, but, in terms of Church supremacy(though not other doctrine), I think that all that it would take would be one persuasive Pope with a strong personality(remember how the Pope actually had a lot of power in the Middle Ages. Canonize Innocent III!). That is another reason why we need Traditionalists in high office.
 
Young_Thinker said:
Thank you, but, unless one counts when St. Peter was in Jerusalem and the Medieval capitivity in Avignon, the leaders of the Church have always been in Rome. Constantine, whom is considered to be a saint(even though he was apparently baptized on his deathbed by an Arian) along with Justinian I by the Orthodox(I am not saying this to be petty),** made the mistake of moving the Empire’s capital to Byzantium. **Then, in 395, the Roman
East and West were separated for the last time. However, 200 years before that, St. Victor I had asserted the authority of the Bishop of Rome.
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I am not sure this is the place for this argument but really? A mistake that kept the Eastern Empire politically intact for a 800-1000 years was a mistake? Rome was a dilapidated mess when Constantinople was made the new capital. Rome wasn’t even the capital of the western Empire at the time anyways (the capital had already been moved to Ravenna). If the Empire had remained centered on Rome, it would have collapsed like the west did and we would still probably be in the dark ages.

By moving the political capital, the Empire wasn’t trying to claim that Rome had lost her primacy among the Bishops. The city (and really the west in general) was just no longer salvageable politically.
 
Formosus said:
I am not sure this is the place for this argument but really? A mistake that kept the Eastern Empire politically intact for a 800-1000 years was a mistake? Rome was a dilapidated mess when Constantinople was made the new capital. Rome wasn’t even the capital of the western Empire at the time anyways (the capital had already been moved to Ravenna). If the Empire had remained centered on Rome, it would have collapsed like the west did and we would still probably be in the dark ages.

By moving the political capital, the Empire wasn’t trying to claim that Rome had lost her primacy among the Bishops. The city (and really the west in general) was just no longer salvageable politically.
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All right, I may have went a bit too far, but the imperial move and division did negatively affect the Church. Also, the Irish had some part in retaining the Latin literary culture, so it was not just the Eastern Romans.
 
Young_Thinker said:
Also, the Irish had some part in retaining the Latin literary culture, so it was not just the Eastern Romans.
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It’s totally off-topic, but Irish monks, yes. But, in the West that was equally true of monks in general. One need look only at S Benedict for an example.
 
The Renaissance began with a rediscovering in the west of the Greek literary tradition. This tradition not only was preserved by the Eastern empire, but flourished and continued to grow. Literacy rates among the population of the Eastern Empire was much higher then in the rest of Europe during the middle ages. As for my comment on the dark ages, perhaps that was a bit much (and tbh at least people in the dark ages had faith in God, something our “enlightened era” seems to be lacking…).
 
malphono said:
It’s totally off-topic, but Irish monks, yes. But, in the West that was equally true of monks in general. One need look only at S Benedict for an example.
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Yes, that is not to say no others contributed to the preservation. I just speaking about a major effort.
 
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