Thank you; it seems that the East was in “better shape” back then, but not just among the Byzantines. Until the Gothic Period, the Chinese and those within the Islamic world also were usually far ahead of W Europe.
I agree. It is sad that as progress has been made in the West, faith has frequently declined.
Wow, comparing us to Anglicans, that’s pretty low. Clearly since we’re not the same though, the comparison is not true.
That must be why the Orthodox are better known for their icons than Catholics.
He and his drinking buddies had a mock “church” structured after the Latin church. They had a mock Pope, mock cardinals, and of course mock sacraments involving heavy drinking and pipe smoking. : p
I was asking another poster if he believed the Lutheran position that after consecration Christ’s body is present along side with the bread and wine.
Throughout the history of the Church a number of explanations have been given to attempt to describe what happens to the bread and the wine at Holy Communion, however the Church has wisely shied away from making a dogmatic statement because it is impossible to accurately describe the indescribable. The main issue we have with the Latin dogma of Transubstantiation is that it narrows the various explanations to one, declaring all others to be heresy.
I am sorry; I often speak in comparisons(which are, at times, rather poor). As for Caesaropapism within the Catholic Church, I was emphasizing that they finally managed to ward it off. However, remember that was largely because of very assertive Popes; something that the Orthodox have never had because of their ecclesiastical structure(it is too weak).
And later with good old “Cathy Magna” ruling over her depraved court and being head of the church(maybe it partly explains the Russian reputation for ruthlessness).
This particular tangent started because someone here claiming to be Orthodox seemed to espouse what I identified as Lutheran theology. Perhaps you can answer for me. Do Orthodox believe the bread and wine remain after consecration? I spoke with an Orthodox priest recently that said there is a “real” mystical “change” that takes place, yet he did not want to use the term Transubstatiation. So I understand some Orthodox prefer not to use that language. Fine. Thus, do you believe the bread and wine change in to Christ’s body and blood such that bread and wine are no longer present?
I am sorry, but as one with Ultramontane inclinations, I see it from a somewhat different perspective. God had always wanted Israel to prosper.
I am not an Orthodox scholar…and have been back home in the Orthodox Church for only about 5 years now…but perhaps this link to goarch (the Greek Orthodox site) might offer a link/bridge for you to seek the answer to your question. I hope this helps.
And yet we seem to have gotten free of Caesaropapism as well, without the centralizing power of the Church.
What does the prosperity of Israel have to do with Church governance in east and west?
I assue it is a reference to the Church’s beliefs that it is the “New Israel”, while I agree with the idea, it only works if one alone can claim that heritage. As it is there are four communions existing today which claim to be that New Israel.
It looks to me rather that they made the Pope into Caesar. Doesn’t it strike anyone as odd that the term used isn’t Caesaropatriarchism?
Our ecclesiastical structure has withstood the worst of heresies from within and attacks from without. I’m perplexed as to how you can perceive that as being weak.
I believe this also. Thy Will be done.