S
Seamus_L
Guest
Reunion talk is pretty much an internet phenomenon. It’s not even remotely likely to happen any time soon, though there are people who think it’s practically here now.
- Status
H
hazcompat
Guest
Yes, but lets not hinder the Holy Spirit. These are surprising times. May the Holy Spirit hasten the unity of the body of Christ.
peace
H
Hesychios
Guest
If there was a reunion, it wouldn’t be much different than what we have already.
D
dzheremi
Guest
As related in Daniel Fanous’ Taught by God: Making Sense of the Difficult Sayings of Jesus, in a chapter on false unity as it relates to Matthew 10:34-36.
It was said that Abba Macarius the Great whilst walking in the desert saw the skull of a dead man. With his stick he struck the skull. It then spoke to Macarius:
Macarius then replied: “Who are you to speak to me like this?”
The skull said to him, “I was a pagan during the time of the pagans. I have been allowed to speak with you.”
Macarius then asked, “Are you at peace, or do you suffer?”
The skull said to him, “I am being punished. Just as the sky is high over the earth, so too is there a river of fire boiling over our heads and underneath us, lapping over our feet. We stand in the middle, unable to look at one another because our backs are joined to each other. But at the moment when someone offers a great supplication for us, we gain a little peace.”
Macarius asked him, “What is this peace?”
The skull said to him, “For the blink of an eye we see each other’s faces.”
When Macarius heard this, he wept and cried out before asking, “Are there worse punishments than yours?”
The skull said to him, “Yes, for below us is punishment whose fire – whose terrible fire-- is even darker and more pitiless… As for us since we did not know God, we were not cast into this punishment below, but those who know God and reject Him have been cast below us.”
I read this only last night. It worries me, in all discussions or considerations of unity, and what true unity is.
It was said that Abba Macarius the Great whilst walking in the desert saw the skull of a dead man. With his stick he struck the skull. It then spoke to Macarius:
Macarius then replied: “Who are you to speak to me like this?”
The skull said to him, “I was a pagan during the time of the pagans. I have been allowed to speak with you.”
Macarius then asked, “Are you at peace, or do you suffer?”
The skull said to him, “I am being punished. Just as the sky is high over the earth, so too is there a river of fire boiling over our heads and underneath us, lapping over our feet. We stand in the middle, unable to look at one another because our backs are joined to each other. But at the moment when someone offers a great supplication for us, we gain a little peace.”
Macarius asked him, “What is this peace?”
The skull said to him, “For the blink of an eye we see each other’s faces.”
When Macarius heard this, he wept and cried out before asking, “Are there worse punishments than yours?”
The skull said to him, “Yes, for below us is punishment whose fire – whose terrible fire-- is even darker and more pitiless… As for us since we did not know God, we were not cast into this punishment below, but those who know God and reject Him have been cast below us.”
I read this only last night. It worries me, in all discussions or considerations of unity, and what true unity is.
J
JackQ
Guest
I think you’re right. Which makes me wonder why there’s so much objection to the idea.
J
JackQ
Guest
I can’t see what this story has to do with unity. Could you elaborate?
I
Ignatios
Guest
Educate my self? I don’t know but does the RCIA is sifficient? if not then there is something wrong with your church teaching, because I went through it back when I was beleiving in the RCC teaching, or maybe you should go back and check my background to see if I know what I am talking about or not, however, allow me to turn what you have said above directly to you and add to it, Do you know what the RCC doctrine is, if Infallabillity and the Pope is the Head of the Church along with Christ and he is the sole rep. of GOD on earth etc… is not a dogma, then by all means then show me and enlighten me, OH by the way do you know what dogma is? is it that no salvation without it? maybe?..
GOD bless.
I
Ignatios
Guest
However I say this that no one should give up hope and love and prayers to our separated brethren, that GOD may guide them back to their own Church and roots, and what is impossible at men is possible at GOD, GLORY BE TO GOD ††† Amen
D
dzheremi
Guest
In the context of the rest of the chapter, which elaborates on the ideas of true (Godly) unity versus false (human) unity, this incident illustrates a false unity among the people of hell. Sure, it is literal and corporeal (they are literally united by their bones), but it is not true unity with God, and that unity with God is the only unity that matters. We should flee from calls for unity by any other means.
If the Catholic and Orthodox churches want unity, let it be true unity with GOD, not mere corporeal unity which is of the devil.
L
lampstand
Guest
Politics, old habits, and urban legends. Sigh…
I guess both sides have treated one another remarkably poorly over the years, and maybe one of the reasons it’s taken so long to even talk about resumption of communion is that, well, it’s part of repentance and penance. 
I truly think we are not as distant as it looks. Yes, there are some differences, but there are still some common elements, and these are worth preserving. Sometimes I think a fraction just want to still be separate, because that’s what they’re used to. Even if one side went out one day and became exactly like its fellow in theology and actions, the most recalcitrant element of the other would still find something to be teed off about.
They don’t wanna, because they just don’t wanna. 
However, I think the majority, if you dig a little deeper, are ready to move on. In real life, Catholic and Orthodox people are friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. all the time. It’s not like we’re fighting each other with halberds anymore. We both believe in the Real Presence, we share the history of the early church, and there has been at least an increase of goodwill between the leadership (with the current Pope having returned the relics of St. John Chrysostom to Constantinople, and Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church having made some favorable remarks about the possibility of re-communion).
I still have hope. I’d like to see it happen within my lifetime. I really think it can-- the Lord works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Unity of faith. Unity of faith is the only measurement, because a sum of commonalities is good for nothing in the absence of shared faith. Without it, trying to subsist in our commonalities entails a race to the bottom, when we should instead be looking up to God. Can I say that as someone who has been through one spiritual desert on his way to the other that I would not accept being drug back to Rome? Well, I guess I just did. But seriously…Orthodoxy stands apart from Catholic, Protestant, and all other attempts at Christianity because it is something much more than “bare minimum Christianity”, which is what you’re left with when you take the commonalities of the Roman Communion and the other Apostolic Communions and try to forge with them some sort of platform for shared communion. I wouldn’t want to stand on it, anyway. It’s not strong enough.
The stubbornness that you identify with those who “just don’t wanna” is, from another viewpoint, a steadfastness in the faith of the apostles. If I don’t believe you have it, I’d be betraying the true faith in welcoming your false faith as equal to it.
The stubbornness that you identify with those who “just don’t wanna” is, from another viewpoint, a steadfastness in the faith of the apostles. If I don’t believe you have it, I’d be betraying the true faith in welcoming your false faith as equal to it.
S
sidbrown
Guest
Do Orthodox really have unity of faith? I heard that there are serious differences in several areas. For example, is it not true that there are many monks on Mt. Athos who condemn some of the teachings of the Patriarch of Constantinople. And there are disagreements between Churches such as the Orthodox Church of Macedonia, which no one wants to recognise. And is it not true that there Orthodox who say that the Old Calendar is part of the faith and cannot be abolished? But there are others who accept the New or revised Julian calendar, and even the Gregorian calendar in Finland, for example. And there are other disagreements on the issue of artificial birth control and whether or not it is OK to have a musical organ in Church? Are women required to wear headcovering during liturgy or not?
D
dzheremi
Guest
None of those questions are very relevant to what I posted, Sidbrown. I posted what I think is the only satisfactory criterion by which unity can be measured, not any sort of declaration about what the Orthodox or the Catholics have or don’t have. It’s about the approach to this issue (which differs on all sides), not who is exhibiting shared faith or not.
N
Nine_Two
Guest
Sigh, people keep bringing these up even though they’ve been answered a million times.
When we call for a unity of faith, that isn’t a call for every church to be exactly the same in every single way. It’s a call that we share the same faith.
They were expelled and are not in communion with the Orthodox Church.
You hit on why this isn’t an argument right in there. They aren’t Orthodox. They can believe whatever they want and it will have no bearing on “Unity of Faith” any more than what Old Catholics believe says anything about the unity of the Catholic faith.
Again, in schism, i.e. not united to us, i.e. doesn’t affect the question of “unity of faith”.
Yes. Every canonical autocephalus church.
Without answering for the varacity of your statement, none of those are faith related, so again, this has nothing to do with the “unity” that is being talked about.
When we call for a unity of faith, that isn’t a call for every church to be exactly the same in every single way. It’s a call that we share the same faith.
S
sidbrown
Guest
But if the Orthodox do not have unity of faith now, then how far are you going to get by requiring it in a reunion with Catholics?
S
sidbrown
Guest
Wikipedia is not the best source, of course, but no one in the discussion area has disputed what is written about the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople (Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch) and the constituent autonomous churches and exarchates in communion with him:
Autonomous Orthodox Church of Finland (Archbishop of Karelia and All Finland)
Autonomous Estonian Apostolic Orthodox Church (Metropolitan of Tallinn and All Estonia) [Autonomy not recognized by the Church of Russia]
Self-governing Orthodox Church of Crete (Archbishop of Crete)
Self-governing Monastic Community of Mount Athos
Exarchate of Patmos (Patriarchal Exarch of Patmos)
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain (Archbishop of Thyateira and Great Britain)
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Italy and Malta (Orthodox Archbishop of Italy and Malta and Exarch of Southern Europe)
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (Archbishop of America)
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia (Archbishop of Australia)
Exarchate of the Philippines (Exarch of Philippines)
Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe (Archbishop of Komana)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church#Eastern_Orthodox_churches_in_communion
N
Nine_Two
Guest
What does that have to do with the particular monastery, the name of which escapes me, at Mount Athos, that you brought up, and that I responded to in the little bit you quoted from me?
I know there are many Autonomous Churches under the EP. Again, that has nothing to do with the unity of the faith.
J
josephdaniel29
Guest
Esphigmenou.
N
Nine_Two
Guest
Thank you.
J
JackQ
Guest
You said this: “as long as the Bishop of Rome is claiming himself to be the Head of the Church of GOD and that he is Infallibile and that he is the rep. of GOD on earth as dogma, there will be no reconciliation.”
Well, the Head of the Catholic Church is Christ for starters. Secondly, the Pope is not infallible, rather certain statements he makes under specified conditions are infallible. Third, whereas he has been called the Vicar of Christ, because he is, for lack of a better way of putting it, prime minister of the King who is Christ, I’m unaware of the Pope ever having been titled the representative of God on earth. He represents the Church as a whole, and I suppose you could say that the Church is God’s representative. Of course, anyone who lives out the Gospel is God’s representative.
But you can say whatever you want. My only point was that you’ll get more mileage out of your positions if you state the facts accurately. Most posters on this forum are going to know that you’re overstating the Church’s papal doctrine.
Oh, and yes, I do know what a dogma is.
- Status