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mardukm
Guest
Very good point, brother Aramis.
We non-Latins would understand this as an exercise of oikonomia. Latins would probably call it a “dispensation” or an “indult.”
Blessings,
Marduk
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We non-Latins would understand this as an exercise of oikonomia. Latins would probably call it a “dispensation” or an “indult.”
Blessings,
Marduk
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shaky
Guest
What are the Roman Catholics Doing Today. Single or Triple
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mardukm
Guest
Oh. I thought brother Aramis was rather clear on the matter: “The Roman Missal requires triple pouring or triple immersion, or in extremis, triple sprinkling.”What are the Roman Catholics Doing Today. Single or Triple
The circumstance mentioned by brother Sid was a medieval practice to combat a certain heresy. The use of single-ablution was an exercise of oikonomia at a particular period of time in a particular locale. Currently, the plenary standard of the Latin Church is its ancient and contant standard of triple-action to represent the orthodox teaching on the Trinity, and, as brother Aramis stated, it would be an abuse at this time to find a local parish performing single-ablution. But it is not outside the realm of possibility, given the many Arian-like religions in the West today, that a local Latin Church would reinstitute single ablution in the future.
Blessings,
Marduk
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sidbrown
Guest
Yes. That’s right.
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Hesychios
Guest
I was wondering who called this council, and who chaired it. Any info on that?
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Aramis
Guest
Appears to be St. Isidore of Seville.I was wondering who called this council, and who chaired it. Any info on that?
wf-f.org/StIsidore.html
en.domotica.net/Fourth_Council_of_Toledo
ewtn.com/library/MARY/ISIDSEV.HTM
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Frank_J
Guest
Question.
Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?
Answer.
There are two ways to say it, and here are the two…
(When Hell Freezes over) or I could use the words of General Douglas MacArthur" commander of U.S Forces in the Philippines to the Japanese Navy in 1942’s (NUTS)
Have a good day.
Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?
Answer.
There are two ways to say it, and here are the two…
(When Hell Freezes over) or I could use the words of General Douglas MacArthur" commander of U.S Forces in the Philippines to the Japanese Navy in 1942’s (NUTS)
Have a good day.
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sidbrown
Guest
I notice that many Orthodox are strongly opposed to any attempt at reunion so you are not alone in this. Would you be willing to share with us here the reasons why you (or others) would be opposed to the union of the two Churches?
Thanks a lot for your (name removed by moderator)ut on this.
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Hesychios
Guest
RE union is only possible if there was a ‘union’ to begin with, and the early church did not have that kind of ecclesiology.
The term is loaded. Catholics who use the term “reunion” have one thing in mind, because they make the false assumption that the ancient church was organized just like the modern Roman Catholic church, and later broke into pieces. You are trying to fit the pieces backk together, but you don’t know how they go any more.
Anyway, Orthodox are not against reconciliation between our churches, which could mean communion between us and concelebration of hierarchs. But that has to be based on the RCC conforming to Holy Orthodox theology.
I don’t expect that to happen.
I would no more wish to see a corporate merger between the institutions of our two churches any more than I would see that happen with the Anglican church. We are just too different.
It would be like your church taking the Chuch of England back. Pretty nice to think about in theory, but impossible in reality because the Anglicans have developed their doctrine and disciplines too far. You can’t take them just as they are. They would have to reverse a lot of their developments, and I doubt that that will ever happen.
So if an Anglican was to ask you "why Catholics are strongly opposed to any attempt at reunion " you would have to say “look at you! We can’t take you in the way you are, you have to decide to be Catholic first”.
The Orthodox and the Roman Catholic church are just ontologically different.
But in fact, a corporate merger is not necessary, and probably not even desirable. We could be “in communion” just by believing the same things. Then our bishops could visit with one another and vest to serve at an altar together. Since we don’t believe the same things I just can’t expect anything like that to happen.
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mangy_dog
Guest
Privet Tabarish,
According to some personal revelations - certain parts of hell are frozen over.
Be that as it may.
I pray that some day soon, all catholics - east, west, orthodox et al - will be one flock with one pastor. This I am sure is the good intention of De Gloriae Olivae. And so, yes I would support that.
Icuc Xrictoc Nika
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Frank_J
Guest
This person is right on the money. The RC Church would have to conform to Orthodox Christian way of life. RC would have to join Orthodox Church.
youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww
Just a little bit of fun here, I felt that the borg say it so well…
youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww
Just a little bit of fun here, I felt that the borg say it so well…
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Church Reunion is first and foremost the fruit of the Holy Spirit, repentance and mutual forgiveness.
When the ROCOR reunited with the Moscow Patriarchate, there was a ROCOR monastic in Moscow who saw three MP clerics walking towards him.
As they approached him, the ROCOR monastic bowed down and asked them to forgive him for the sin of separation from the Church.
The clerics returned the gesture.
That kind of reunion is the only valid kind in the eyes of our Lord, I would venture to say.
Without it, even if both sides agreed to a common confession of Faith and found a way to link one another in a “corporate” sense - it wouldn’t be a true reunion.
Also, I once met a ROCOR priest to whom I was introduced as a “Uniate Greek-Catholic” (as if the first name wasn’t bad enough
).
During our conversation, I sensed that he wanted to say something about the Unia . . .
I told him, “Father, we will be reunited in God’s way, not ours.”
He smiled and said, “Thank you for saying that. It was exactly what I had on my mind as well!”
Alex
When the ROCOR reunited with the Moscow Patriarchate, there was a ROCOR monastic in Moscow who saw three MP clerics walking towards him.
As they approached him, the ROCOR monastic bowed down and asked them to forgive him for the sin of separation from the Church.
The clerics returned the gesture.
That kind of reunion is the only valid kind in the eyes of our Lord, I would venture to say.
Without it, even if both sides agreed to a common confession of Faith and found a way to link one another in a “corporate” sense - it wouldn’t be a true reunion.
Also, I once met a ROCOR priest to whom I was introduced as a “Uniate Greek-Catholic” (as if the first name wasn’t bad enough
).During our conversation, I sensed that he wanted to say something about the Unia . . .
I told him, “Father, we will be reunited in God’s way, not ours.”
He smiled and said, “Thank you for saying that. It was exactly what I had on my mind as well!”
Alex
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Frank_J
Guest
Hello,
I’m a member of ROCOR and the joining the Church in Russia in one thing but the Roman Church joining the Orthodox is a different story. ROCOR and Moscow Church have something in common, and that is the faith and the Divine Liturgy that was able to bring the two Churches together.
The Catholics would have to reject many Heterodox views in order to join Orthodoxy. I don’t see Rome moving in that direction as of yet. No offence is giving here, only the truth and that is why, sometime truth is hard to take. The RC church has added more and more stuff to their religion and it has gone on for a very long time. That all has to go by the wayside before the RC church would be allowed back in.
It is her choose to stay out, not ours, only hers.
Will chat later
I’m a member of ROCOR and the joining the Church in Russia in one thing but the Roman Church joining the Orthodox is a different story. ROCOR and Moscow Church have something in common, and that is the faith and the Divine Liturgy that was able to bring the two Churches together.
The Catholics would have to reject many Heterodox views in order to join Orthodoxy. I don’t see Rome moving in that direction as of yet. No offence is giving here, only the truth and that is why, sometime truth is hard to take. The RC church has added more and more stuff to their religion and it has gone on for a very long time. That all has to go by the wayside before the RC church would be allowed back in.
It is her choose to stay out, not ours, only hers.
Will chat later
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shaky
Guest
From what i understand this is to do with the consequences of Original sin. Not only has it affected man but it also affected Animals and the planet itself with hurricanes earthquakes etc. Man is not guilty of origional sin. Are Animals guilty of origional sin.
Monkeys have same sex attraction. Male monkeys have sex with male monkeys. and it happens with other type animals aswell Pigons and budgies etc
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sidbrown
Guest
Specifically, what would you say has to change for the RCC? I know about the objections to:
papal infallibility and supremacy
Purgatory
Immaculate Conception.
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shaky
Guest
Pre Nicene there was no divorce and remarriage nor was there annulments.
Around the 6Th century divorce and remarriage was accepted in the church by one of the Popes this was while both East and west was in union. The Eastern church still hold to this concept today. while Rome decided to go back to no divorce and remarriage and brought in annulments instead
The Reason why i prefer Eastern Orthodox over Oriental. Because the Oriental Orthodox caused the Nestorius schism around the 5Th century this was a new teaching as regards christology.
Also the reason why i mention Protestants was a example of churches splitting and keep splitting with new teachings untill you have loads of different denominations.
I would have thought it would be wise to stay with the earliest Original teachings.
By the way if you have baptised somebody yo have loosed that person from there sins.
Can you explain what you mean by essence and energies of God?
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sidbrown
Guest
Do you have a reference to a papal document or letter which supports this?
Thanks.
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RyanBlack
Guest
The Oriental Orthodox are not the source of the Nestorian Schism. The Nestorian heresy was condemned in 431 at the Council of Ephesus. The Oriental Orthodox did not accept the Council of Chalcedon in 451, which condemned Eutychianism. Their refusal to accept the Council of Chalcedon was due to their belief that it departed from the christological teachings of the Council of Ephesus. The Assyrian Church of the East is the Church that has never accepted the teachings of the Council of Ephesus.
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shaky
Guest
All i understand and have read: St Justinian and his Influential wife 527AD And after Constantine 314AD. It was certainly happening in the east and the west did not object and Practised this themselves.
There is a thread on this site titled: when did eastern bishops start allowing for remarriage
It also points to other threads on the subject.
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PbloPicasso
Guest
All of this rationalizing, justifying, reasoning, conjecturing, etc. is making me wonder about it all.
Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God? Who cares, really, if the Holy Spirit really procedes from the Father and the Son? It’s really just plain dumb to argue along the lines os splitting hairs and be willing to sin by blasting the other, as if we have the right to blast each other. We’ve murdered each other in history over this very same issue. I do believe Christ is tisking above, frowning and crying over our hatefulness.
Whether Mary was conceived without sin or a miraculous purifying occurred is not really a salvation issue just because someone had to made it dogma. That alone makes it approach sinfulness on the part of those making the huge mountain and holding less fortunate people accountable over it. Some of these teachings will make sense one day. I have a very strong gut feeling, along the lines with biblical study, that God is going to be merciful in light of all of the sociopaths and pathological liars that have led man astray for 2 millennium.
Sure, something’s true, but it’s not worth splitting over. Without the love of Christ you won’t have a chance to make it to paradise. Be charitable, not divisive. Truth is important. But when the tapestry has been smeared so much it’s nearly impossible to expect anyone to really get it. As I tell my children during times of trouble “shut up and get along”. Well, maybe not those exact words.
Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God? Who cares, really, if the Holy Spirit really procedes from the Father and the Son? It’s really just plain dumb to argue along the lines os splitting hairs and be willing to sin by blasting the other, as if we have the right to blast each other. We’ve murdered each other in history over this very same issue. I do believe Christ is tisking above, frowning and crying over our hatefulness.
Whether Mary was conceived without sin or a miraculous purifying occurred is not really a salvation issue just because someone had to made it dogma. That alone makes it approach sinfulness on the part of those making the huge mountain and holding less fortunate people accountable over it. Some of these teachings will make sense one day. I have a very strong gut feeling, along the lines with biblical study, that God is going to be merciful in light of all of the sociopaths and pathological liars that have led man astray for 2 millennium.
Sure, something’s true, but it’s not worth splitting over. Without the love of Christ you won’t have a chance to make it to paradise. Be charitable, not divisive. Truth is important. But when the tapestry has been smeared so much it’s nearly impossible to expect anyone to really get it. As I tell my children during times of trouble “shut up and get along”. Well, maybe not those exact words.
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