Do you take the Old Testament literally?

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If we say the bible is the inspired Word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit, what does our denial of the stories in the Old Testament really mean? That we believe some stories or events are true and others are not? How do we determine this?
 
I would like to see some documentation or anything from the CCC regarding this
Triumphguy listed some examples. The chapter of the Catechism named “Sacred Scripture” goes over the topic as well. While it is too extensive to quote all the relevant parts here, I’ll underscore these two:
109 To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.
110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. “For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression.”
This (not available in English) may be another relevant document.
 
I don’t believe the world is literally six thousand years old.

I don’t take the story of a world-wide flood literally.

There’s too much geological evidence contradicting both—Wyoming’s Green River Formation, for instance.
 
Someone is buried in the tombs of the Patriarchs.

The Israelites suddenly showed up in force in Canaan from Somewhere.

Someone was the first Israeli monarch.

It’s just bloody-mindedness to insist, without any evidence, that the only impossible answers to these questions are the ones the OT gives, but that’s what many people want to to.
 
I believe that at least 98% of the stories can be taken AS LITERAL.

The reason i don’t know if every story is literal or not is I wasn’t there!

Anyone who claims that they KNOW is a either a liar or God by special private revelation has told them everything.

Now do I think that God has done that with anyone–I don’t think so but honestly I don’t know.

I may be wrong but I do not think that the Catholic church has formally defined which stories in the Old Testament should be taken as LITERAL and which ones should be taken metaphoricaly?

I do know that the Catholic church has taught that in most instances unless there is reason otherwise and that is possible–that we are to take the LITERAL sense of scripture.

That doesn’t mean that everything is to be taken LITERALLY but I do believe that most things in the bible can be taken that way.

Of course some things are poetic–other things are metaphorical or allegorical–Jesus did teach in parables for example.

Most things ARE LITERAL–I know the MODERNISTS who don’t believe in anything hate that but it is true!
 
Yes.

If I started to disbelieve some stories I would end up disbelieving them all.

The way of the atheist.
 
I’ve been studying the scripture, and I’m deep into the Old Testiment right now (and I personally absolutely love it!).

My questions; Do you take the stories in the OT literally? Why or why not?

This always seems to bring an interesting discussion about…

God bless!
Let me ask you one question first. What is our working definition of “literal” here?
 
Yes.

If I started to disbelieve some stories I would end up disbelieving them all.

The way of the atheist.
On doesn’t disbelieve stories of the OT, one understand their form and context and believes the Truth that lies therein.

I don’t read Genesis disbelievingly.:…“Oh No, that’s not true, that’s false, that’s silly, that’s from somewhere else…”

No: When I read Genesis I see the beauty and the power of the language and the message and let it speak to me today.

Scripture study and praying with scripture are two different acts.

The use of our critical faculties does not blunt our spiritual abilities.
 
If we say the bible is the inspired Word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit, what does our denial of the stories in the Old Testament really mean? That we believe some stories or events are true and others are not? How do we determine this?
It means that all the stories of the OT express truth – the truth that God intended when inspiring the writers – even if the stories themselves aren’t necessarily historical accounts.
 
That’s a very broad question. Certainly, not all of the OT is meant as an allegory as many of the events and people existed. I generally take it literally until there is very good scientific evidence to the contrary.
 
Yes there is poetry in the bible. Poetry shouldn’t be taken literally because its poetry.
catholicaustralia.com.au/docs/churchdocs/Dei%20Verbum.pdf

Read
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION,
DEI VERBUM,
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY
HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 18, 1965

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

Especially Chapter 3

So the Authors of the Old Testament are real authors inspired by God, but they wrote in their own context, using their own literary forms, “whether it is historical, or poetic or prophetic.” And “We must understand the “customary and characteristic patterns of perception, speech and narrative” of the authors if we are not to misunderstand what the author intends to convey.”

We are challenged to find how God is speaking to us today, rather than trying to prove the historicity of certain texts.
 
It means that all the stories of the OT express truth – the truth that God intended when inspiring the writers – even if the stories themselves aren’t necessarily historical accounts.
If its not poetry, vision, dream, parable, song, its literal accurate inspired and infallible history
 
I’ve been studying the scripture, and I’m deep into the Old Testiment right now (and I personally absolutely love it!).

My questions; Do you take the stories in the OT literally? Why or why not?

This always seems to bring an interesting discussion about…

God bless!
I take it is allegory and myths. That is just how I have always read it since I was a kid. I read the entire OT when I was a teenager.
 
No one to answer the question yet?
I know where you are going…

*It was raining cats and dogs. *

A literalist interpretation reads this phrase and believes that house cats and poodles were falling from the sky. A literalist approach to scripture gets us things such as the rapture, millenialism and six day creationism. A literal interpretation seeks to understand the literary meaning of what was writtin. One tries to determine the meaning of what the author was trying to convey, and might look at other similar phrases from about the same time, would look at the history and culture of the people to whom the author was writing, idioms and modes of speech, etc.

A literal intepretation of the phrase above would see it commonly used during descriptions of thunderstorms, hurricanes and times of floods. A literal interpretation would conclude that it was raining heavily.

So yes, Catholics interpret the Bible literally. We do not however, take a literalist approach to scripture.
 
I know where you are going…

It was raining cats and dogs.

A literalist interpretation reads this phrase and believes that house cats and poodles were falling from the sky. A literalist approach to scripture gets us things such as the rapture, millenialism and six day creationism. A literal interpretation seeks to understand the literary meaning of what was writtin. One tries to determine the meaning of what the author was trying to convey, and might look at other similar phrases from about the same time, would look at the history and culture of the people to whom the author was writing, idioms and modes of speech, etc.

A literal intepretation of the phrase above would see it commonly used during descriptions of thunderstorms, hurricanes and times of floods. A literal interpretation would conclude that it was raining heavily.

So yes, Catholics interpret the Bible literally. We do not however, take a literalist approach to scripture.
Thanks, although, you could still mean a lot of things by ‘literal’ even if we have already have distinguished it from ‘literalistic’. (BTW I’ve been using that latter adjective for years but I never bothered checking; is that even a word?)
 
Thanks, although, you could still mean a lot of things by ‘literal’ even if we have already have distinguished it from ‘literalistic’. (BTW I’ve been using that latter adjective for years but I never bothered checking; is that even a word?)
I didn’t do a very good job distinguishing what I feel taking stories from the Bible as “literal” could mean with this particular thread. My apologies. I guess to me reading the creation story; God made the Earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th…my interpretation is that either God A. Made the earth in seven 24 hour time periods (days) or B. the (days) represent a longer time period (1,000 years or more just for example). Thus, an example as well as the story of Noah, Jonah, Job, Samson, etc.

I would take either A. or B. as literal in the question I proposed above in the story of creation as literal. That’s what I meant when I asked the question…looking back I should’ve mentioned “figuratively” as well…hope this helps with what you were asking.

God bless
 
I’m not a Christian, but I will answer the question as though I were a Catholic.

I would say that a literal reading of the OT misses the main point of it. It misunderstands the genre of literature in which it was written. We moderns often assume that all narrative accounts that are written are intended to be historical accounts whose purpose was to faithfully record events for the sake of remembering past events, but this is an idea that is only a few hundred years old.

In the ancient world, people didn’t keep narratives alive because they simply wanted to maintain archives of events, but to illustrate a point. Herodotus wrote his histories not to give a record to satisfy the academic curiosity people might have of the events he wrote about, but to glorify the Greek people.

Similarly, the purpose of much of the OT isn’t to give a detailed historically accurate account as it is to use examples to illustrate the nature of Man, God, and the nature of their relationship. The predominant theme of the OT is that of man’s separation from God through sin and the need to repent in order to restore his relationship with God. almost every story in the OT is intended to illustrate this point through example.

Take the creation narative in the book of Genesis for example. It depicts God creating the heavens and the earth, calling them good, and then making a garden, creating mankind which he calls ‘very good’ and Mankind falling away from God due to sin and being exiled from the garden.

The reason why it emphasizes God’s creation of the world the way it does is because it demonstrates that God’s love for mankind, which he considered to be the greatest of his creation. This may seem obvious now, but many pagan cultures near Israel believed differently. For example, the Akkadian creation myth Enuma Elish depicts the gods making humanity not as something to be loved, but as being a last minute addition to creation who were created solely to act as slaves to the gods. In other words, Genesis portrayes the creation the way it does to contrast God’s love with to the opression of the pagan gods taught by many pagans.

It also depicts God making the heaven and the stars and the forces of nature one by one. Remember that the pagans worshiped these things as gods in themselves, so the intention of Genesis is probably to emphasize that the sun and moon and other such things are not divine, but were created by the one true God who alone should be worshiped, rather than the forces of the natural world.
This is the concept that many enbrace. What you then have to expalin is why the NT does not present the accounts of the OT as symbols or allegories. They are presented as literal events, often word for word, and again, they are not “parable-ized” (my word) in the NT.
 
No one to answer the question yet?
I would think the working definition would be or should be that the events actually happened as described. That the events, the people and what happened to them in those times are not just point makers but accounts of the miraculous hand of God at work. Real.
 
I would think the working definition would be or should be that the events actually happened as described. That the events, the people and what happened to them in those times are not just point makers but accounts of the miraculous hand of God at work. Real.
Forgive me for sifting further, but believing “that the events actually happened” could also mean a number of things. Did they actually happen as written (in other words, Genesis or Exodus are accurate transcripts of what happened; Adam or Jacob or Moses must have said or did exactly the same words or actions that you find written on the page, down to the last jot and tittle) in a literalist sort of way? Or something like “the stories are based on historical facts but are not to be taken as modern newspaper articles or encyclopedia entries or screenplays”? Or anything else in between or beyond?

I mean, one could believe that Genesis or Deuteronomy or Judges are “real” in the sense that all the accounts ultimately convey truth and in most cases, may well be grounded in historical fact, but that doesn’t mean that believing that they are “real” necessarily entails that one must read the books in a literalistic, ‘fundamentalist’ sort of way.

BTW, do you remember me asking you on another thread what you meant by the word ‘myth’? The reason why I asked that is because of this:

Personally, I believe Genesis to be ‘mythology’ par excellence. However, since the words ‘myth’ and ‘mythology’ are more commonly used today in the sense of “stupid lies only stupid kooks would waste their time with,” (when some people say ‘the Bible is a myth’ they often mean it in this sense, unfortunately) I need to qualify what I mean by it.

When I say ‘mythology’ I mean it in the original sense, the sense it is still being used by folklorists: a sacred narrative usually explaining how the world came to be in its present form, in other words “a story that serves to define the fundamental worldview of a culture by explaining aspects of the natural world and delineating the psychological and social practices and ideals of a society.” Myths (in the folkloristic sense) could arise either as elaborated accounts of the ‘factual’ past, as allegories for or personification of natural phenomena, or as an explanation of ritual, and are used to establish models for behavior and that myths may also provide a religious experience.

I believe the same is true for Genesis: I think that these are ‘myths’, elaborated stories of real historical events in the distant past. Just because the accounts are handed down to us in an ‘elaborated’ form, however, does not mean that they could no longer convey truth: does it really matter whether our first parents were really named 'Adam or Ḥawwāh? Do we have to believe the dialogues recorded in Genesis is really what they said to each other, word for word (like a transcript), or for that matter, that they apparently spoke Hebrew? Personally, I don’t think the issue of whether Adam’s name was really 'Adam or something along those lines would have any effect on the ultimate truth that these stories convey: that God created the world, but man disobeyed and fell from grace. And even if somehow, what really happened back then was not totally ‘in agreement’ with what is written with Genesis, it still wouldn’t make the accounts an utter lie or the comparison with Jesus as the new Adam invalid, in my opinion.

In other words, I think that Genesis is mythical and at the same time, true. But that’s just my own personal opinion on the subject. Feel free to take it or leave it.

So, in the case of Genesis, one could say that I believe it to be a ‘myth’ (in the sense I described above) grounded in ‘fact’, ‘real’ and ‘true’ all at the same time. I believe God made the universe and that 'Adam or Ḥawwāh (aka Eve) existed (whether that is their actual names or not, or whether they had any name at all, is not of much importance to me - they’re our first parents all the same), but I do not take the creation accounts in a hardline literalist fashion, especially considering the OT’s original cultural context.

So yeah, I kind of doubt whether my own opinion - a huge mess as it is - is actually represented faithfully on the poll, which is why I’ll still refrain from picking one. 😃
 
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