Do You Take Your Bible to Mass?

[Sheen]

NorthernBrother – My goodness. What ever did I say to cause you to issue such a flaming and bitter missive? I am quite taken aback by your anger and – frankly – audacity to judge my character and claim I am not in line with Church teaching. Especially so since the accusations you are making bear no resemblance whatsoever to anything I have written here.
NorthernBrother:

The mass has a document that defines the liturgry it is called the Roman Missal.It is manifestly superior to use the correct liturgical texts when particpating at mass.

Yes, and I said differently where exactly?
NorthernBrother:

Does the priest use the bible during mass or what about the bishop? The answer is a resounding NO.:banghead:

Careful now. You don’t want to give yourself a concussion.

To risk sounding peevey, pompish and snide – from where do those readings come from if not from Holy Writ? Many of the prayers said during the Holy Mass are taken right from the pages of Scripture – verbatim. So, the answer to your rhetorical question is actually a resounding, “YES!” Yes, the priests and bishops do use the Bible during every Mass and always have.
NorthernBrother:

Your arguements in favor of the bible are peevey, pompish and snide.

In what way? Please explain.
NorthernBrother:

Since apparently no one can convince you that there might be a better text for use at the mass then the bible

And again – you have put words in my mouth I have never said nor implied. I have never said the Bible is a text for the Mass or should replace anything at Mass. How you could so misread what I have written is a confusion to me – sincerely.
NorthernBrother:

I suggest you bring a big jewel encrusted bible with gold lined pages and silk ribbons. Take great pains to ensure everyone around you can see you turn the pages to following along with the readings. I’m sure they all will give you appreciative glancess and you can leave mass thinking that once again you are not just an average catholic but SUPER CATHOLIC

You suggest? Why? Is that what you do? Wait, no – yours would be the big jewel-encrusted missal, right? What about that lady with the mantilla on her head clutching her jeweled rosary? Is she a SUPER CATHOLIC as well?

(sigh)

 

[Sheen]

(second part of posting)
NorthernBrother:

Cut out the polly annish routine, only the most insincere person would coutniue misrepresenting the sentiment of those posters who are not ciritising your use of the bible but offereing the superior text approved for mass by the bishops.

Right, right…and I have said that the Bible is an approved text for the Mass — where exactly???

And incidentally, though I disagree that my postings have been “pollyannish,” I certainly consider having “irrepressible optimism and a tendency to find good in everything” to be an attribute. You should try it sometime.
NorthernBrother:

One last time the missal is the approved text of the mass and bible is not.

And one last time – where did I ever say otherwise?
NorthernBrother:

A man of humility always tries to align himself with the church

Yes, and even us women of humility.
NorthernBrother:

Because you’re SUPER CATHOLIC :bowdown:

Oh, please – get up before you seriously hurt yourself.

 

[pnewton]

I posted earlier that I usually don’t bring my Bible because of its size. But there is one very positive reason why it would be beneficial and preferable even over the missalette. When one looks at the passage in one’s own Bible, he develops a familiarity with the lay out and location of scripture. A sense of context can also be developed for the passages that are being read. This can be beneficial when trying to recall Bible passages later on.

 

[Thomas2]

Dear Deacon 200,

****** PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS MESSAGE!!!******

(And anyone else on this thread who thinks bringing a Bible to Mass is somehow wrong, sinful or is in anyway suppressed by the Church. The Church has never said so and it is pure anti-Catholic rhetoric to imply that we aren’t allowed to or are sinful, disobedient Catholics if we bring a Bible to Church!!!)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing a Bible to Mass. There is nothing in the Tradition of the Church that says this is a practice that is wrong and should be discouraged. It is solely YOUR opinion that a person who uses a Bible for his or her own missalette is somehow disobedient to ROME! This is a fabrication on your part. It is false to imply that this is an edict from Rome and must be obeyed. It is wrong of you to imply that bringing a Bible to Mass is wrong and that persons who do so are 1) inferior Catholics, 2) disobedient, 3) sinful. I’m also of a mind to believe that you are doing so to further you own agenda.

We already have a Pope, and you ain’t him, so quit trying to do his job!

Peace and all good,

Thomas2

P.S. ****** Please correct yourself on Church teachings before you call someone else disobedient and sinful in a public forum for not minding your opinion!!!

 

[MGEISING]

OhioBob:

Not that Sheen needs defending (I’m sure she can more than adequately defend herself), but what the heck (who said chivalry is dead)…
If you had bothered to READ the posts Sheen has made on this thread you would have learned the following:
She enjoys reflecting on the Mass readings by reading them in her Bible BEFORE Mass;
She follows the readings as they are read for numerous reasons (I won’t repeat her blonde comment ) however when she does, she follows along in the missalette (apparently because she agrees that it is “manifestly superior” for use during Mass);
She never once proposed using the bible DURING Mass (which I think you already know);
While she might be a "closet fundamentalist " her remarks are never “peevey, pompish and snide”.
She doesn’t have a snazzy bible case. I doubt that “a big jewel encrusted bible with gold lined pages and silk ribbons” would fit in her cheapo bible bag. Thus your proposal could be a problem for her unless she has real strong arms;
She apparently has more humility than you do (at least than you exhibit in the tone of your post);
As to whether she is “Super Catholic” or not, I doubt it. You seem to have staked out that position for yourself. :bowdown:

Blessings anyway.

You are right on! Wow, chivalry isn’t dead!

 

[MGEISING]

Thomas2:

Dear Deacon 200

****** PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS MESSAGE!!!******

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing a Bible to Mass. There is nothing in the Tradition of the Church that says this is a practice that is wrong and should be discouraged. It is solely YOUR opinion that a person who uses a Bible for his or her own missalette is somehow disobedient to ROME! This is a fabrication on your part. It is false to imply that this is an edict from Rome and must be obeyed. It is wrong of you to imply that bringing a Bible to Mass is wrong and that persons who do so are 1) inferior Catholics, 2) disobedient, 3) sinful. I’m also of a mind to believe that you are doing so to further you own agenda.

We already have a Pope, and you ain’t him, so quit trying to do his job!

Peace and all good,

Thomas2

P.S. ****** Please correct yourself on Church teachings before you call someone else disobedient and sinful in a public forum for not minding your opinion!!!

I like this response … and it is done so charitably! THANK YOU for keeping things welcoming!

 

[Deacon2006]

Thomas 2 since you obviliously have trouble remembering what I have posted or simplly refuse to accurately reflect what I have said, I will state it once again for those who may not have the time to read the all the posts in this thread.

My position is:

1. The mass is the liturgical event that is the source and summit of christian life
2. the document that encapsulates this liturgical function is the Roman Missal
3. If you wish to have reading material in hand then the best document would be the approved liturgical text for the mass which is the missal

These are not my opinions but facts of our faith, refusing to acknowledge them or pretend they don’t exist is not a very catholic position.

As for your accusations against me

1. I have never said don’t bring the bible to mass.
2. I have never said don’t bring the missal to mass (obviously)
3. I have never said that the Church in anyway considers it sinful, disobedient or inferior to bring the bible to mass.

All these accusations are false witnessing and for some reason you wish to put lies into my mouth.You have done great harm to my reputation.

What I have said specifically about the bible and mass in reference to other posts is that:

1. The church expects you to particpate fully in the mass, reading other bible passages not specified during the mass is not consistent with particpating fully with the mass and should be done at time more suitable for bible study.
2. Due to the large number of translations and broken passages selected for some readings, the bible is not as practical as the missal.
3. I have posted on at least one occasion that I encourage people to bring their bible to church for the purposes of praying the lecto divina.

If you are still hopping mad at me I suggest before you respond hold your breath and count to ten then say the following:

The church created the missal for use at mass.

The church created the missal for use at mass.

The church created the missal for use at mass.

Hopefully it will sink in that using the proper liturgical texts in the way the Church designed them to be used is a very charitable and catholic position. Only the deliberately obtuse would conclude my position detracts from the bible. My posts only acknowledge the position that church has taken with regards to the priority of litugical texts for use in the mass.

If you still think that I have an anti-bible hidden agenda then feel free to scream at me some more but quite frankly I would be more open to an apology.

God Bless

 

[Gratias_Grace]

Deacon2006:

My mistake I see now that I am dealing with someone who loves legalistic arguments by citing dated anonymous sources out of context.

1. Since the mass does not include a gesture of pulling out a rosary in its rubrics then you must have added it to the mass. To change the liturgy is a grave abuse. It is clear that if you pray the rosary then you are not praying the Mass and as lawyers like to say you can’t suck and blow at the same time. This is why I pray the rosary before the mass.
2. Obedience to the pope is a matter of religious assent that all Catholics are expected to adhere to even if the pope does not use the infallible formula (LG25 and CCC892)

It is not that hard to be faithful you just got to believe what the pope and bishops are telling you; be it about devotional worship or the approval of liturgical texts.

While this post is not specifically about the missal or the bible debate raging here the principle is still relevant.

The pope has not recommended the bible as the liturgical document for the mass he does recommend the missal. Catholics are then definitively expected to embrace the missal for mass. This is a matter of our faith.

In general I don’t like the tone this thread is taking. The faithful should never be put in a position were so many feel that to if you defend the Church’s teachings then you are attacking Mary or the Bible. You can never defend the honor of Mary and the Bible by attacking the Pope or the Magisterium.

God Bless

I agree with you, Deacon2006!

Blessings!

G.G.

 

[Prometheum_x]

NorthernBrother made some reference to the idea that somehow the text of the missal and not that of the Bible is approved for the mass. I find this slightly humorous, since the Scripture readings found in the missal are from the Bible. As far as Scripture readings go, the difference between the missal and the Bible (assuming both are the same translation) is that while the Bible is the complete collection of Scriptures, the missal is a specific arrangement of particular selections of those same Scriptures.

 

[Thomas2]

Dear Deacon 2006,

I apologize if I’ve upset you. Sorry, but you kinda found my funny bone! I don’t like folks who pass off their opinions as what the Church teaches. Please be careful how you express yourself, especially when you are implying that what you are saying is somehow “approved of” by the Church. Infallibility belongs to the Holy Father and doesn’t come with ordination to the Deaconate.

You say: “1) The mass is the liturgical event that is the source and summit of christian life”

Guess what the Church teaches? The EUCHARiST is the source and summit of our faith! That is, the Most Blessed Sacrament, none other than the Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, present in all the Tabernacles of the world!

Ummmmmm…I’ll save what I’d like to say for another day.

Peace and all good,

Thomas2

 

[Deacon2006]

Again you misquote me. It seems that every time you post you really don’t take the time to check if any of your assertations contain the truth. To accuse me of usurping papal perrogatives is a bit extreme even for you.

If you don’t have a copy of the catechism you can find one online. If you check sections 1328-1332 you will learn something about the eucharist. You will see that the Sacrament of the Eucharist is also called the Lords Supper, the Breaking of Bread, Eucharistic Assembly, The Holy Sacrifice, The Holy and Divine Liturgy, Holy Communion and The Holy Mass.

My citing of the mass as the source and summit of christain liturgical life is fully consistent with Church teachings. Your accusations on the other hand are not even remotely consistent with Christian charity.

Your posts are undully judgemental and insulting. Once again scream at me if you wish but I am much more receptive to an apology.

God Bless

Before

 

[system]

Deacon2006:

My citing of the mass as the source and summit of christain liturgical life is fully consistent with Church teachings.

CCC 1324 says “The Eucharist [referring to the sacrament] is ‘the source and summit of the Christian life’.” If there’s another “source and summit” in the CCC, please point it out. I was confused by your statement too, since “source and summit” is one of those key phrases like “body, blood, soul and divinity” that you just don’t see anywhere else.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Can there be Eucharist without the Mass?

Can the Mass be celebrated without confecting the Eucharist?

Is there a need to divide the one from the other?

 

[OhioBob]

tee_eff_em:

Can there be Eucharist without the Mass?

Can the Mass be celebrated without confecting the Eucharist?

Is there a need to divide the one from the other?

I agree and I gather that is Deacon’s point. Sounds a bit like semantics to me.

 

[Deacon2006]

Melman:

CCC 1324 says “The Eucharist [referring to the sacrament] is ‘the source and summit of the Christian life’.” If there’s another “source and summit” in the CCC, please point it out. I was confused by your statement too, since “source and summit” is one of those key phrases like “body, blood, soul and divinity” that you just don’t see anywhere else.

You are using nit picking narrow logic which is contrary proper understanding of what the Eucharist as taught by the church.

The term the Church is using here is Eucharist and not Host. Your assumption that everytime the Church uses Eucharist they mean host is the central logic flaw here. Yes the Eucharist means the concsecrated host and yes it also means the Holy Mass.

Once again the CCC clearly states that the Sacrament of the Eucharist is also known as the HOLY MASS and this is found in CCC1332. To then say that the Holy Mass is the source and summit of Christian liturgical life is fully consistent with the teachings of the Church.

There is no Eucharist without the Mass and there is no Mass without the Eucharist. The truth of this statement is manifest to all Catholics because it is the source and summit of our Christian faith.

God Bless

PS These debates have now gone too far astray from the point of this thread and as such I will not respond anymore posts not relating to the thread topic.

 

[system]

Deacon2006:

You are using nit picking narrow logic which is contrary proper understanding of what the Eucharist as taught by the church.

Well, “thank you for your support”. I am not using any logic; I was simply trying to explain where the other person was confused, since I had the same thought. You clarified what you meant and that’s appreciated. But a little less attitude might help too.

 

[MGEISING]

Melman:

Well, “thank you for your support”. I am not using any logic; I was simply trying to explain where the other person was confused, since I had the same thought. You clarified what you meant and that’s appreciated. But a little less attitude might help too.

CHARITY

CHARITY

CHARITY​

LESS ATTITUDE!

 

[Deacon2006]

My apologies Melman I guess I read your post as a pile on with Thomas 2.

Now that I read your post from the point of view that you were supporting me I can now see how terriblly astute it is and worthy of reputation points. :tiphat:

Sorry for the confusion next time I will use the words like I agree with… or *I disagree with… * to ensure that my posts don’t get taken the wrong way as I did with yours.

My apologies once again.

God Bless

 

[Peace-bwu]

The parishes I have attended have always had missals with the liturgical readings already in them (for those who aren’t Catholic they are preplanned scripture readings, the same in every Catholic church for every day of the year, uniting the Body of Christ) I think this leads to a misconception by our protestant friends that we don’t read the Bible. The missal makes it easier rather than paging through a whole Bible every few minutes to find the readings. Because we are required to participate in the Mass as members of the Body of Christ it would be inappropriate to start reading unrelated scripture passages during Mass. I would take my Bible to a prayer group, Eucharistic Adoration, or Bible study. I almost always keep one in the car just in case I am waiting in my car or a doctor’s office etc. Or in case I enter a discussion with friends and need it for a reference. If I attended a parish which did not provide Missals, I would take my Bible to Mass to follow along with the readings and just look up the set readings for that particular day and mark them with color coded bookmarks.

 

[OhioBob]

Deacon2006:

Now that I read your post from the point of view that you were supporting me I can now see how terriblly astute it is and worthy of reputation points. :tiphat:

Ahh… nothing like a bit of reputation to smooth the troubled waters.

Hey, Deacon, I supported you. Where’s my points?

Nudge. Nudge.

(Just kidding Deac.)

Blessings.