Do you think a "Counter-Revolution" on sexual ethics is imminent?

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To me, it seems to be the case in history that major revolutions in thinking are the result of corruption within the orthodox side. I.E. There was enough corruption and political scandal within the Church that the emergence of Protestantism was all-but inevitable. If Luther or Calvin were never born, others would have taken their place. But, as painful as this event was, it was also what finally triggered a powerful Counter-Reformation in the Church. Shortly after the emergence of Protestantism we witness the birth of the Jesuits, and on the other side of the world, Our Lady of Guadalupe and a new unexpected stream of converts that need fed.

Likewise, condemning things such as homosexual unions, pornography ,or even polygamy seems all-but unsustainable when you already have so much moral laxity among the married/marrying population. It was corruption within the legitimate camp of marriage that allowed other innovations to push themselves into the mainstream. But likewise, this is an opportunity for the Church (and in this case, other groups) to “clean up” and “clarify” their views. I think this is already underway.

In other words, I don’t see the heavily pessimistic view that some people have when it comes to marriage and sexual ethics. If we are to truly believe that the Church “has it right” when it comes to sexual ethics, then that also means there are going to be real world consequences to disobeying her. The utopia that secular liberals dream of is not going to be realized, and therefore, you’re not going to simply have an entire population melt on an issue that - if nothing else - doesn’t seem to have any temporal reward. This is an ungallant reason, but it is a final defense to fall back on. I think this is especially true for a country like the United States. It’s too big and complex to have a blowout victory one way or another.

I believe the fruits of a false prophet can unwittingly help spread the Gospel, because it can compel some to flee.
 
TK421 said:
To me, it seems to be the case in history that major revolutions in thinking are the result of corruption within the orthodox side. I.E. There was enough corruption and political scandal within the Church that the emergence of Protestantism was all-but inevitable. If Luther or Calvin were never born, others would have taken their place. But, as painful as this event was, it was also what finally triggered a powerful Counter-Reformation in the Church. Shortly after the emergence of Protestantism we witness the birth of the Jesuits, and on the other side of the world, Our Lady of Guadalupe and a new unexpected stream of converts that need fed.

Likewise, condemning things such as homosexual unions, pornography ,or even polygamy seems all-but unsustainable when you already have so much moral laxity among the married/marrying population. It was corruption within the legitimate camp of marriage that allowed other innovations to push themselves into the mainstream. But likewise, this is an opportunity for the Church (and in this case, other groups) to “clean up” and “clarify” their views. I think this is already underway.

In other words, I don’t see the heavily pessimistic view that some people have when it comes to marriage and sexual ethics. If we are to truly believe that the Church “has it right” when it comes to sexual ethics, then that also means there are going to be real world consequences to disobeying her. The utopia that secular liberals dream of is not going to be realized, and therefore, you’re not going to simply have an entire population melt on an issue that - if nothing else - doesn’t seem to have any temporal reward. This is an ungallant reason, but it is a final defense to fall back on. I think this is especially true for a country like the United States. It’s too big and complex to have a blowout victory one way or another.

I believe the fruits of a false prophet can unwittingly help spread the Gospel, because it can compel some to flee.
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The failure to achieve a secular utopia will not lead to any sort of Counter-Revolution of sexual ethics. It would take a secular dystopia, and that’s not going to happen either.
 
What you are witnessing is the fall of the greatest empire the world has ever known. Sexual ethical degradation is just one part. So far in human history these things have never reversed themselves.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
What you are witnessing is the fall of the greatest empire the world has ever known. Sexual ethical degradation is just one part. So far in human history these things have never reversed themselves.
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👍

Pretty much this. Every historical example we have of this sort of degradation always ends with the collapse of the culture engaged in it. The Greeks and the Romans are the two most prominent examples that come to mind.
 
No, Rome fell because of lead poisoning from their sewer system. That’s what I was taught in college anyway.
 
PDXSeeker_1975 said:
No, Rome fell because of lead poisoning from their sewer system. That’s what I was taught in college anyway.
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The was one small aspect of a much larger set of issues. Rome fell for several reasons, as did Greece; but to ignore one major aspect of it (the degradation of the family and widespread immorality) simply because it goes against he modern narrative is folly. There was lead in the pipes, there was widespread disease, there were attacks from without and within, and there was an almost complete lack of strong family structures. No one thing caused the collapse completely, but all of these problems feed off of each other.
 
If there IS … let’s hope it’s not led by the same people (or same sort) that brought us the last Sexual Revolution. :coolinoff:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Hugh Hefner (publisher of Playboy) and Gloria Steinem (publisher of Ms.) are still alive. (Founding publishers).

Though Hefner was rumored to be dead in December 2014, and Ms. Magazine was once also rumored to be dead (after a parent company’s bankruptcy).
 
ChurchSoldier said:
What you are witnessing is the fall of the greatest empire the world has ever known. Sexual ethical degradation is just one part. So far in human history these things have never reversed themselves.
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Maybe the corruption and fall of empires is humanity’s insurance against unending domination by any one group or class. A counter revolution in sexual ethics would be very encouraging, whether or not it’s imminent.

Then the Church can play a role in rebuilding society just as it did after the fall of Rome.
 
josephback said:
Maybe the corruption and fall of empires is humanity’s insurance against unending domination by any one group or class. A counter revolution in sexual ethics would be very encouraging, whether or not it’s imminent.

Then the Church can play a role in rebuilding society just as it did after the fall of Rome.
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Marxist style class warfare between men and women has been exposed for the lie it is. Only male-female complementary bears good fruit, not division. There are those who are quietly practicing their faith and married. They don’t need to mention it on the internet.

Ed
 
There could well be a counter revolution, but I’m afraid that it will begin in earnest only after the current disintegration of the family has fully played itself out, resulting in at leas a minor, and possibly major, dark age of social and political chaos.

I think the counter revolution, when it comes, might be led by the children of same sex marriages and IVF procedures, angry that they and perhaps a whole generation, have been denied normal families, on purpose.
 
TK421 said:
Likewise, condemning things such as homosexual unions, pornography ,or even polygamy seems all-but unsustainable when you already have so much moral laxity among the married/marrying population.
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Well, you are almost there. There is one piece of the puzzle you are missing, and it goes like this: sustaining alternative lifestyles requires a civilization with an energy surplus. Since the energy surplus is no more, then we will soon get to the point where alternative lifestyles can no longer be sustained, and the society will revert back to Evil Patriarchy ™, simply because this system is remarkably effective. As one researcher into societal collapse put it (yes, research into the future collapse is a recognized, if unpopular, academic field), “Collapse is an adaptation strategy when existing institutions can no longer be sustained”.

So in a sense, the counter-revolution is already brewing, because there is a lot of people who realize the way the things are going.
TK421 said:
If we are to truly believe that the Church “has it right” when it comes to sexual ethics, then that also means there are going to be real world consequences to disobeying her.
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You assume that the Catholic Church is a solution, while in reality it is part of the problem. An institution where effeminate homosexual priests preside over congregations consisting primarily of women is structurally unable to lead a patriarchal counter-revolution, because it is devoid of the male element.

Regarding Catholic sexual ethics, the core concepts of course are good, but the way they are applied today is all wrong. For example, on one hand, the Church teaches that marriage requires fidelity, but on the other hand, cheating spouses are being tolerated: cheat on your partner on Friday, go to confession on Saturday, present yourself to Communion on Sunday, repeat next week. If the cheated party decides to divorce and remarry, then they are being punished for your transgressions by being denied Communion. Catholic marriage, as it stands today, is basically institutionalized cuckolding.

The Catholic Church as we know is so interlinked with the rest of the Western civilization that it will collapse together with it. It will survive in the sense that after the collapse someone will pick up the brand name and the core concepts and build a new institution from scratch.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
What you are witnessing is the fall of the greatest empire the world has ever known. Sexual ethical degradation is just one part. So far in human history these things have never reversed themselves.
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Except that sexual degradation appears to be a syndrome of the collapse, not the cause.
The historical evidence indicates that each and every collapse recorded can be directly traced to the civilization exceeding resource and environmental constraints.

Calhoun’s studies of societal collapse in mice are also worth looking into.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
👍

Pretty much this. Every historical example we have of this sort of degradation always ends with the collapse of the culture engaged in it. The Greeks and the Romans are the two most prominent examples that come to mind.
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But cultures never really die, they just change. Byzantine continued for many, many centuries and was quite prosperous. Constantinople was a Christian metropolis that in many ways surpassed the city of Rome. Of course, life in Byzantine wasn’t utopian and no such culture ever will be utopian, but relatively speaking, isn’t this a demonstrable example of a “counter-revolution” after the collapse of Rome? Wherever there are human beings there will be sin, but many of the state-approved sinful practices of Roman society were forced underground in Byzantine. It is extremely helpful when the state is willing to back natural law.
 
weller2 said:
Except that sexual degradation appears to be a syndrome of the collapse, not the cause.
The historical evidence indicates that each and every collapse recorded can be directly traced to the civilization exceeding resource and environmental constraints.

Calhoun’s studies of societal collapse in mice are also worth looking into.
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The desire for wealth at any cost is a bigger problem. Science is making great strides in material science, and non-fossil fuels only require a storage system to go 24 hour, and uninterruptible. That is in the process of happening now.

Like all new things, the wealthy want to make sure that they can profit from transformative technologies. Those technologies must turn a profit even if the lives of the peasants are at stake, as it always has been since large city-states began and barter and exchange was replaced by money and now, a globalized banking system.

Right now, farmers in the US are paid billions to grow nothing through farm subsidies. Other materials will and are replacing silicon and smaller, faster, and smarter computers are being built. The toys they call humanoid robots today will be armed and placed on the battlefield tomorrow, assisted by armed and computer-assisted drones that will guide troops, mark and destroy targets.

Ed
 
I’m intrigued. Since any change does not take place in a vacuum, what year or time period do posters suggest we go back to? 🤷
 
kozlosap said:
I’m intrigued. Since any change does not take place in a vacuum, what year or time period do posters suggest we go back to? 🤷
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The “Sexual Revolution” created a disaster. As it is today, sex for too many does not require love or commitment, just a willingness between two parties who may never see each other again. On a practical level, the Centers for Disease Control is reporting an epidemic of Sexually Transmitted Diseases in the US. Most are treatable, one can cause sterility, and as of now, one requires a lifetime of treatment but there is no cure. HIV/AIDS is also an issue. The cost of treatment means costs for health care can only go up.

Abstinence, which is consistently laughed at, is a practical option. However, the current mindset is “nobody can control their desire for sexual intercourse.” NOBODY. What a lie. If someone told you something bad could happen if you engaged in a certain activity, would you? Apparently, a moment of pleasure is enough to ignore any warnings. Also, the quickest road to poverty for too many is being an unwed mother.

We must all realize that the media is selling us sex outside of marriage, 24/7. That’s it. Turn that stuff off. Self-control. It’s as simple as that.

Ed
 
The sins of a society cannot sustain themselves.
Unfortunately they do sustain longer than most people’s lifetimes.

But at some point, people will see the cost as to great. And the counter revolution against the sinfulness of the society will begin in earnest.

Consider, a couple thousand years ago Rome was pagan. They fed people to wild animals for entertainment. There were various iniquities going on throughout the society.

Today, most of these are unthinkable.

This “counter-Revolution” I see as the opposite swing of a pendulum that has been swinging back and forth since we left the garden.
It is coming.
I may not live to see it, but my grandchildren might.
 
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