Do you think a person who is not "under grace" or currently in sin can or should pray?

  • Thread starter Thread starter paxvobiscum
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

paxvobiscum

Guest
I have been told for years that God does not hear or listen to the prayers of the sinful. It would stand to reason that conversion is an example of a sinful one’s prayer being heard. But what if one is “sinning” with no intention of change but still prays? Do you think that it is fruitless and pointless? I have always wondered about this and am interested in what you think.
 
The “mere” fact that you feel called to pray is an amazing grace and call from God. Such a call from God should never knowingly be ignored. Anyone who tells you that God doesn’t hear the prayers of the sinful is way out of line since there are no humans on this earth who are not sinful.

As to having no intention to stop sinning, I can very much identify with that. Back in 1996 I did a Cursillo weekend and at the end there is a time at the “closing” when each person comes forward to hear “Christ is counting on you”, to which the response is “and I am counting on Christ.” The problem was exactly what you are noting: I had my “special” sins that I knew I was going to go right back to when I left and it was very difficult for my sense of integrity (yes, I understand the irony 😊 ) to put on a show of being holy when I knew myself to be no such thing.

What I was finally able to come to was an honest admission to myself that I didn’t really trust that God would replace my sin with something so much better that I would look back with great regret at how long it took me to risk taking the chance. My prayer became one of asking God to help me trust that His goodness and mercy was all it was cracked up to be.

Over time, some of those special sins have greatly diminished or disappeared, though admittedly others have happily come to take their place. But I have found great peace in knowing that it is God that does all the work, even though I fail over and over again to follow through even on good intentions, much less lack of intentions.

As I noted in another thread recently, each time I say “If you wish it you can make me clean”, He says “I do wish it.” And He says this over and over, even knowing that I’m going to rush right back to my own weaknesses and compulsions.

There is a great line in a prayer byThomas Merton that says (as best I recollect it) “I can only trust that my desire to please you does in fact please you.” God will indeed, over time, help to make our desires fruitful. But the lines of communication–praying!–need to be kept open.

Don’t be discouraged Pax by discovering that you’re human. We’re all in that same boat, whether we like to admit it or not. Even St Paul commented about doing the things he hated and not being able to do the things he wanted to do. It comes with the territory. But God is bigger than all of that and will get right down in the muck with you to help lift you up and out.

Be not afraid!
 
Thanks for your reply, it gives one a lot to think about! Several of my family members(non-Catholic) just think if you sin that’s it, they do not include anyone they deem sinful in prayer requests and they think it’s a waste of time to pray for them! It’s almost like the Amish and the “shunning” pratice.
 
God hears all prayer. I personally would have a hard time saying he does not, as he may even use that as a means of instilling repentance in the sinner.

Gods mercy and forgiveness is infinite. That simply means it is beyond our ability to understand and grasp. Remember, Jesus came to call the sinners, not the just. His first words on the cross were, “Father forgive them…” Just look at the response the repentant thief received when being crucified with Jesus.

We are even taught to pray with these words, “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” To be forgiven, we must forgive.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Remember that perfect contrition restores one to a state of grace sufficient that one would not be damned were one to die (although not sufficient that one can, for example, receive Communion without prior sacramental confession, and perfect contrition necessarily entails a resolve to confess as soon as possible).

I think, having experienced such contrition, one’s prayers would again be heard by God.
 
I have been told for years that God does not hear or listen to the prayers of the sinful. It would stand to reason that conversion is an example of a sinful one’s prayer being heard. But what if one is “sinning” with no intention of change but still prays? Do you think that it is fruitless and pointless? I have always wondered about this and am interested in what you think.
I think everyone should pray for help, a lot. Life is crazy and often very cruel. We need all the help we can get.👍
 
I have been told for years that God does not hear or listen to the prayers of the sinful. It would stand to reason that conversion is an example of a sinful one’s prayer being heard. But what if one is “sinning” with no intention of change but still prays? Do you think that it is fruitless and pointless? I have always wondered about this and am interested in what you think.
Jesus Himself didn’t turn people away who were in a state of sin when they went to Him.
 
If it weren’t for God’s hearing and answering my prayers when I was in a state of mortal sin for most of the 31 years of my life, I would not have experienced conversion.

God gives us actual grace when we pray in a state of sin to bring us to the confessional and into a state of sanctifying grace.
 
I think that not praying is a terible trap, and that satan delights in getting us to fall into it. He will use anything to get us to not pray.
If God doesn’t hear us when we pray, because of our sins, how on earth would we ever be able to pray & ask for forgiveness??
See what I mean??
This is not to say that anyone is doing a good thing, to remain in a sinful state. It just means that we have to keep praying to, at least, want to try to not sin any more.And that prayer is, I believe, the one thing that the devil will do all he can to keep us from praying.
Prayer is powerful stuff. You know?? I think sometimes, we think of prayer as a job we have to do, like, say, mopping the kitchen floor, or sorting the laundry.
But prayer is talking to Our Lord. Its a relationship.Praying is wonderful!! Start wherever you are, start praying, and you will be amazed at what can happen in your life & the lives of those around you.
God bless.
 
Prayer is powerful stuff. You know?? I think sometimes, we think of prayer as a job we have to do, like, say, mopping the kitchen floor, or sorting the laundry.
But prayer is talking to Our Lord. Its a relationship.Praying is wonderful!! Start wherever you are, start praying, and you will be amazed at what can happen in your life & the lives of those around you.
God bless.
Now that is what I’ve always felt! I have never been able to think of prayer as a daily chore or the time to beg “big Daddy in the sky” for whatever it is you want here on earth. I’ve been exposed to so many people who seem to think that God is just like a celestial ATM and you have to “do the right things” as though that’s the pin code to unlock the jackpot. The Lord knows us all better than we can ever know ourselves, to cease communication with Him (especially if you know you need Him) seems like a spiritual suicide. Jesus never promised that life would be a rose garden, but He did promise that we would never be left without Him. To turn from Him totally is trying to negate that promise. But perhaps it goes back to Adam and Eve covering and hiding themselves out of shame back in the garden of Eden - the knowledge that Satan imparts is enough to make us feel the unworthiness but not enough to realize that God ALREADY knew we were unworthy. Over scupulocity may be the best pawn of the devil.
 
If we listen to our saints, to a person, they would say that prayer is not a thing we do, or a chore, but a way of life. How often have we heard, “Live your life as a prayer.” This is what we are to do. The morning offering each day helps with this tremendously, when we offer up our prayers, works, joys, trials, sufferings, etc to God. Part of that prayer is that we do nothing that would be improper in offering our daily activities to God. Try it. You will find a tremendous awareness of your actions and all that you do, by offering them all to God.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
I consider myself the biggest sinner in the world yet I have evidence of testimony from friends that my prayers have been answered. So anyone can pray. God listens to all of us not just the saints.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top