C
Cherubaby
Guest
Sure. Heaven is outside of Time, isn’t it? GOD and the Angels do not dwell in Time. Time only applies to our Physical Dimension (the corporeal Universe).
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po18guy
Well-known member
One in which the worm of decay never dies, and the eternal flames burn, but never consume.
C
Cherubaby
Guest
Exactly! 
T
TCostello
Guest
I concur completely!
po18guy
Well-known member
And, even for those who do not love God, it is eternal dwelling in an absolute absence of anything positive - especially love, since love is of God. If we contemplate the horrors that a lack of love have produced in time, is it possible to imagine the infinite multiplication of that in eternity?
Yet, “there will be/shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew, Luke) which denotes some point in the future and implies that the body (lungs, larynx, tongue, jaw and teeth) will be involved, hinting that it is a physical realm.
It will be everlasting horror without a trace of hope.
F
fred_conty
Guest
Wouldn’t place only apply to our Physical Dimension?
F
fred_conty
Guest
But that is a figure of speech referring to the dump outside of the gates of Jerusalem.
po18guy
Well-known member
How can one wail and gnash the teeth if he has neither lungs nor teeth?
po18guy
Well-known member
We know that Jesus, Mary, Elijah and Enoch are with God in their physical bodies. Both Peter and Paul write of “new heaven and a new earth” Peter writes that the elements will melt away. Yet, there are fully human bodies existing in some place, dimension or status away from this earth. Just what this actually means has not yet been revealed.
Since our spirits are not dead (for to Him all are alive) they need no resurrection. Only the body does. John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 imply that both the evil and the just will be resurrected in their bodies, since I know of no “spiritual resurrection”.
D
dchezik
Guest
It’s hard to see how a spirit without a body could be harmed by flames. Also such spirits have no pain receptors so flames could not cause them pain. It therefore seems that hell is not a physical place with souls writhing in torment as is commonly thought.
R
RobbyS
Guest
What do you mean by a place? Our concepts of time and place are totally inadequate to use to answer this question. Hell is total alienation from God. Afterwards it will be total exile.Is Hell a literal place, or does it mean an eternal separation from God? I keep thinking Hell is a literal place where people are literally burning up for eternity. What is the Catholic teaching on this?
V
Vouthon
Guest
It is a spiritual place which means that it is outside space and time, such that to our corporeal way of being, it isn’t a place at all but a “state” of mind and being.
If one understands by hell a three-dimensional space in time, then no it isn’t a place.
As an EWTN article explains:
Hell will always be a state of mind, or a “spiritual place”. It is not and never will be a literal, physical place because Hell consists of “self-will” and rejection of God’s grace, neither of which are physical in nature but psychological and spiritual.
If one understands by hell a three-dimensional space in time, then no it isn’t a place.
As a result Catholic theologians since the time of Saint Pope Pius X (who always referred to hell as a “state to which the wicked are condemned” and never as a place) have consistently refused to use the language of “place” in reference to hell because non-theologians tend to imagine it in human, earthly terms that deprive this important doctrine of its true nature.
As an EWTN article explains:
As quoted earlier in this thread:
And no, hell will never change from being a “state” to being a “place”. We will rise with spiritual bodies that while physical, will be freed from human transciency and no longer need “space” or “time” to exist as genuine bodies.
Hell will always be a state of mind, or a “spiritual place”. It is not and never will be a literal, physical place because Hell consists of “self-will” and rejection of God’s grace, neither of which are physical in nature but psychological and spiritual.
D
DavidWJackson
Guest
Just for the record, I would like to say yes. I really do believe there is a hell. And I really do believe it will be quite physical for the soul, reguardless of what dimension it may be found in.
Q
QuickCat
Guest
Love that quote from Chesterton.
QC
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PJM
Guest
IT"S LITERAL…BUT=DoxieMama;9970114]Is Hell a literal place, or does it mean an eternal separation from God? I keep thinking Hell is a literal place where people are literally burning up for eternity. What is the Catholic teaching on this?
What suffers is not our physical bodies.
Like the God who Created us; humanity ALONE out of the MANY BILLIONS of created things, has a mind, intellect, FREEWILL permnately attached to our Souls.
It is these 'spiritual things" by which we emulate our God; and like God these “spiritual things” cannot be killed or die.
As The Prophet Isaiah proclaimed:
Isa.43 Verses 7 **and **21: “every one who is called by my name, **whom I created for my glory, **whom I formed and made." AND the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”
“Might” being the key word. OUR own choice. We choose either heaven or Hell by our lives choices.
EXACTLY WHAT HELL HOLDS FOR THOSE WORKING SO DILIGENTLY TO GET THERE IS UNCERTAIN. WHAT WE CAN KNOW IS THE AT LAST, FULL- UNDERSTANDING OF CHRIST PROMISE AND THE LOST OPPORTUNITES; AND MOST SIGNIFINATELY THE LOSS OF THE “BEATIFIC VISION” WILL BE THE MOST GREVIOUS AND PAINFUL LOSS.
Let us Pray and pay the asking price now for our own salvation and that of others while we can. AMEN
S
Shin
Guest
In Holy Scripture we read of those swallowed up alive into Hell.
Food for thought:
'And Moses said: By this you shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all things that you see, and that I have not forged them of my own head: If these men die the common death of men, and if they be visited with a plague, wherewith others also are wont to be visited, the Lord did not send me. But if the Lord do a new thing, and the earth opening her mouth swallow them down, and all things that belong to them, and they go down alive into hell, you shall know that they have blasphemed the Lord.
And immediately as he had made an end of speaking, the earth broke asunder under their feet: And opening her mouth, devoured them with their tents and all their substance. And they went down alive into hell the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among the people.’
Numbers 16:28-33
“The common teaching of the scholastic theologians is the within the earth there are four inner chambers: one for the damned, another for those being purged of sin, a third for those infants who have died without receiving Baptism, and a fourth which is now empty but once held those just men who died before the passion of Christ.”
St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church
‘Alas! Of what kind is that place of wailing and of gnashing of teeth. . . at which even Satan shudders? O Woe! What kind of place is it, where the unsleeping worm dieth not? What dread misery to be sent into outer darkness? Of what kind of angels placed over these torments, who pitiless and frightful, punish by casting in there, while at the same time the reproach most grievously? Then shall those already in the midst of the torments cry out with pleading voices, and there will be no one to speak for them to the Lord, and they shall not be heard. Then they will learn that the things which happened to them in this life were as nothing; and those that here seemed sweet, were more bitter than gall and wormwood.’
St. Ephrem of Syria, Father & Doctor of the Church
'As for sinners, the Lord, referring to the Day of Judgment, says: “I will say to the reapers, gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them.”
The reapers, that is, the Angels, bind up those sinners who have committed the same sins, so that they can be sent to Hell together, and thus the proud are tortured together with the proud, the immoral with the immoral, the greedy with the greedy, liars with those who be, murderers together with murderers, and unbelievers together with unbelievers. All of these, joined together according to their types of sins, will burn in the various places of torture into which the Angels throw them.’
Pope St. Gregory the Great, Father & Doctor of the Church
‘I doubt not that the fire of hell is corporeal, since it is certain that bodies are tortured there.’
Pope St. Gregory the Great, Father & Doctor of the Church
‘Why can we not say that even incorporeal spirits are able to be afflicted in some real ways, however, remarkable, with the punishment of corporeal fire, if the spirits of men, certainly themselves incorporeal, are able now to be contained in corporeal members, and in the future will be able to be bound indissolubly to the bonds of their own bodies?’
St. Augustine, Father & Doctor of the Church
Hell - One Hundred and Two Texts - from Holy Scripture & the Saints.
There are also some fine audio sermons on Hell on Audio Sancto and Sensus Traditionis. The latter has a sermon discussing how the various faculties are punished.
And books on the subject, like ‘The Sight of Hell’.
It’s very important to reflect on the four last things.
Food for thought:
'And Moses said: By this you shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all things that you see, and that I have not forged them of my own head: If these men die the common death of men, and if they be visited with a plague, wherewith others also are wont to be visited, the Lord did not send me. But if the Lord do a new thing, and the earth opening her mouth swallow them down, and all things that belong to them, and they go down alive into hell, you shall know that they have blasphemed the Lord.
And immediately as he had made an end of speaking, the earth broke asunder under their feet: And opening her mouth, devoured them with their tents and all their substance. And they went down alive into hell the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among the people.’
Numbers 16:28-33
“The common teaching of the scholastic theologians is the within the earth there are four inner chambers: one for the damned, another for those being purged of sin, a third for those infants who have died without receiving Baptism, and a fourth which is now empty but once held those just men who died before the passion of Christ.”
St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church
‘Alas! Of what kind is that place of wailing and of gnashing of teeth. . . at which even Satan shudders? O Woe! What kind of place is it, where the unsleeping worm dieth not? What dread misery to be sent into outer darkness? Of what kind of angels placed over these torments, who pitiless and frightful, punish by casting in there, while at the same time the reproach most grievously? Then shall those already in the midst of the torments cry out with pleading voices, and there will be no one to speak for them to the Lord, and they shall not be heard. Then they will learn that the things which happened to them in this life were as nothing; and those that here seemed sweet, were more bitter than gall and wormwood.’
St. Ephrem of Syria, Father & Doctor of the Church
'As for sinners, the Lord, referring to the Day of Judgment, says: “I will say to the reapers, gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them.”
The reapers, that is, the Angels, bind up those sinners who have committed the same sins, so that they can be sent to Hell together, and thus the proud are tortured together with the proud, the immoral with the immoral, the greedy with the greedy, liars with those who be, murderers together with murderers, and unbelievers together with unbelievers. All of these, joined together according to their types of sins, will burn in the various places of torture into which the Angels throw them.’
Pope St. Gregory the Great, Father & Doctor of the Church
‘I doubt not that the fire of hell is corporeal, since it is certain that bodies are tortured there.’
Pope St. Gregory the Great, Father & Doctor of the Church
‘Why can we not say that even incorporeal spirits are able to be afflicted in some real ways, however, remarkable, with the punishment of corporeal fire, if the spirits of men, certainly themselves incorporeal, are able now to be contained in corporeal members, and in the future will be able to be bound indissolubly to the bonds of their own bodies?’
St. Augustine, Father & Doctor of the Church
Hell - One Hundred and Two Texts - from Holy Scripture & the Saints.
There are also some fine audio sermons on Hell on Audio Sancto and Sensus Traditionis. The latter has a sermon discussing how the various faculties are punished.
And books on the subject, like ‘The Sight of Hell’.
It’s very important to reflect on the four last things.
W
Wintersdemise
Guest
I personally think Hell as a spiritual dimension overlaps our own world. The levels of hell overlap not only the physical world but the other levels as well. I feel this is how ghosts fit in to the scheme of things: they are demons and souls of the damned.
J
Jerry-Jet
Guest
Does it really matter if one is burning in a state or burning at a location?
Either way one is burning!
If time is indeed no more yet we can ENJOY heaven without a succession of events such as time would indicate–are you going to tell me that we could not SUFFER the torments of Hell as well even though time didn’t exist?
To be sure the worst thing about hell is separation from God but Jesus said “there would be weeping and knashing of teeth”!
Since that is true that CAN take place in a state without time!
I’m not a “theological sophisticate”–It is beyond my mind to KNOW what eternity is like without time–but lack of time does not invalidate Jesus’ statements about Hell!
I DO believe that some of the people who say that Hell is ONLY a state or that it is ONLY separation from God–do not really like to face the REALITY of ALL that Jesus said about Hell.
They feel like they are doing a service by pointing out that it is a state or that it is separation from God.
These things are TRUE but they’re only PART of the truth.
By expounding only on part of the truth they aren’t doing anyone a service–they are doing a disservice.
EVERYTHING Jesus said about Hell in the New Testament is true whether any “modern” scholar likes it or not!
Either way one is burning!
If time is indeed no more yet we can ENJOY heaven without a succession of events such as time would indicate–are you going to tell me that we could not SUFFER the torments of Hell as well even though time didn’t exist?
To be sure the worst thing about hell is separation from God but Jesus said “there would be weeping and knashing of teeth”!
Since that is true that CAN take place in a state without time!
I’m not a “theological sophisticate”–It is beyond my mind to KNOW what eternity is like without time–but lack of time does not invalidate Jesus’ statements about Hell!
I DO believe that some of the people who say that Hell is ONLY a state or that it is ONLY separation from God–do not really like to face the REALITY of ALL that Jesus said about Hell.
They feel like they are doing a service by pointing out that it is a state or that it is separation from God.
These things are TRUE but they’re only PART of the truth.
By expounding only on part of the truth they aren’t doing anyone a service–they are doing a disservice.
EVERYTHING Jesus said about Hell in the New Testament is true whether any “modern” scholar likes it or not!
B
Bobby_Jim
Guest
Hell is a small town in Michigan a bit northwest of Ann Arbor.
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