Do you think our Catholic church need to get rid of stipends?

[pnewton]

Jesus never accepts stipends (at least directly). I won’t refer to the Acts or Letters for this…

No, but this addressed in Scripture. It was already an issue in the first generation of the Church. St. Paul, as a missionary, supported himself, though defended his right to support. He told Timothy," The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard [e]at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

This has been the teaching of the Church ever since. Pope Francis most recently spoke of the abuse of stipends, but the principle is Biblical and morally sound. And while there is no record of what Jesus did or did not receive, his disciples were instructed on how to deal with receiving room and board.

 

[pnewton]

The last Catholic family funeral I did…

Give me a funeral any day over a wedding. At a funeral, it is truly the thought that counts. At a wedding, it is too often about the show, with less forgiveness, more attempt at control by conflicting members of the wedding party. I quite playing at weddings. I guess for a priest, it is different, as he has control over the Mass, take it or leave it.

 

[2towers]

It is tough enough to attract people to the priesthood. These stipends do not amount to much money. Our priests work very hard and go to school for quite a while. Priest have to visit family now and then, and they need a vacation. There are out of pocket medical expenses, and how about getting a pizza. They are still human, even with their calling. I think it is the humane thing to do. Just my 2 cents!

 

[midori]

We knew Jesus & Co. received alms of some sorts–

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages” He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

If Judas was able to skim off the moneybag, presumably there was enough going into it that there was enough to take care of the needs and wants of at least 13 people…

We also know that Paul talked about it a bit-- we know he continued to work his day job (making tents?) while he preached among the people. But he also clearly doesn’t expect other people to do the same thing:

If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we still more?

and

Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is sacrificed on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

But he also says elsewhere–

Did I commit a sin by humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I proclaimed God’s good news to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and was in need, I did not burden anyone, for my needs were supplied by the friends[c] who came from Macedonia.

So, if you’re going to go out of your way to request a priest do something beyond his usual duties, it’s a bit stingy to say, “I don’t want to contribute anything because you ought to be holy enough to do it for love.” And chances are, the way the stipend gets broken down, if it’s not clearly designated to go to solely to the priest, is probably not going to be a significant enough amount to make most people get out of bed in the morning.

 

[Milt]

NO!

If the priest is good enough to drive out to say bless my house, then the least I can do is pay for his gas.

Besides who said you have to give money. Try giving items from a garden, or help out with maintenance like mowing grass or painting.

 

[1ke]

Oh it’s transparent enough how else does someone employed by a church afford a Land Rover

Snarky much?

There are many ways a person could drive a Land Rover and be employed at the Church that have nothing to do with their pay.

I often get complimented on my handbag, which is a $500 retail item. People have made little remarks about it. It was a gift from my dad, it belonged to his wife who wanted me to have it when she passed away recently.

You know what they say about assuming, right?

It also sounds like you are implying wrong doing. Facts to back that up, please, or stop making such tacky remarks that slander good priests and employees of the Church.

 

[StarMapp]

We need to respond to the new problems that our Church is experiencing in this age, one of which is the reality that our priests are becoming aged, and they need caring and a retirement plan. It is not the time to impose general policies of financial restraint, or casting aspersions on the system when dealing with our Church. The priests trust the Holy Spirit and God’s providence, and he passes that responsibility to the faithful who makes it possible.

There are many signs of this age that show disposable income allows society to live their dreams of temporal fantasy. This dire predicament of our priests is not wasted money, it is an investment in the future of our loved ones.

I say we stop doing double takes. Give without question when the Church asks, and trust that the funds will be used as intended.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Oh it’s transparent enough how else does someone employed by a church afford a Land Rover

There’s a million reasons why someone could have a nice vehicle and not be living off the glut of church payments.

For starters, the car could have been a gift…or used.

I remember one of my lowest points ever. (as an adult, my childhood is a different story) It was rainy, miserable day. I had just worked a 12 hour shift. I was closing the store and a student came and demanded I re-open. He had been there twice before and had refused to buy the necessary book beacause we were “just scamming” him.

Realized that no, no we weren’t and we actually had cheaper copies than anywhere else.

We had warned him, several times, about our hours and there he was, 45 minutes after closing berating ME for not re-opening and selling him a textbook.

He went on and on on about how I had “female privilege” and “White privilege” and how I was a spoiled daddy’s girl because he saw my (very old, very much used “sports” car).

His complaint to the president of the university combed me down–from my hair, to my clothes to my car indicating that I was a spoiled, privileged oppressor.

Fortunately, I was good friends with the president of the university who knew that I didn’t earn very much, drove a used car, and had worked my way through college and was a part of a minority family (by adoption).

He asked the kid into his office and apparently gave him such a through combing down that a few days later he came to me with his tail between his legs, apologized and gave me some sort of treat as a peace offering.

I saw him over the next few years and actually helped him and gave him some guidance on how to manage things.

But that one night when he was terrible…man…that judgment was one of the most humiliating things I endured because I couldn’t defend myself that every single assumption he was making was totally false.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

The stipend at our parish for a wedding is 800.00. I think that is ridiculous but there is nothing I can do about it. I am just happy my daughters want to get married in the church. BTY we have to pay the music director, who is not catholic, NOT to play at the wedding. And only 4 weddings took place at my church this year. Go figure. And Father DID NOT do the wedding prep. That was done while they were in college in another state. And we are active members of the parish…

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The Pope frowns on fees. http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2017/11/24/pope_francis_santa_marta_mass/1350945

 

[AdamP88]

$300 went to the music minister who refused to show up for our rehearsal then told off my professional musician brother and hubby’s classically trained sister that they couldn’t play “because a wedding is not amateur hour”.

Fortunately, in the 15 minutes before our wedding, Father reminded her that they were professionals, even if they were my family.

We didn’t even want her to play/sing.

Then $50 of the 400 went to “facilities”. $40 went to the prep book and the FOCCUS test. Father got $10…

…yeah. In that whole stipend, after meeting with us regularly, doing the rehearsal AND saying Mass, he got $10.

Usually we give the money directly to the celebrant. The priest who celebrated our wedding was a friend so we just gave him €50 in a card.

The music guy was a friend of one of my grooomsmen and the same groomsman was cantor at the wedding. That guy is also my best friend so he I didn’t have to pay him.

 

[1ke]

Let’s all be clear that the stipend given for a mass intention or an offering for sacrament and the fees associated with renting the church for a wedding ceremony are NOT the same thing.

They are being commingled on this thread to the detriment of the actual topic: mass stipends.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are many signs of this age that show disposable income allows society to live their dreams of temporal fantasy. This dire predicament of our priests is not wasted money, it is an investment in the future of our loved ones.

I would be fine with donating to a priests’ retirement home or fund. I already gave earlier this year to a home for elderly nuns.

Give me a donation button where it says money goes to that, or a charity that is solely for “priests’ retirement fund”, and I will send a chunk of money today with a Merry Christmas wish for the nice old priests (or nuns).

What I object to are nebulous payments made to some umbrella charity or to “the diocese” (not even my own parish) or any other stipend where I have no idea where the money is going.

 

[1ke]

On offerings (which are not stipends) for sacraments, Canon Law instructs the bishops conference to set a limit, which is the upper boundary. A person can offer $0.

Can. 1264 Unless the law has provided otherwise, it is for a meeting of the bishops of a province:

2/ to set a limit on the offerings on the occasion of the administration of sacraments and sacramentals.

 

[FrDavid96]

I don’t think we should get rid of them, but I would like there to be some transparency about their use, especially in the context of paying to have a Mass said.

I occasionally will order a series of Gregorian Masses for my loved ones. My diocese offers this service and sends the money to a well-known mission society to have the Masses said. This is fine, I know that the time commitment is such that it’s best handled by a missionary and that the money goes to support the missions. The cost of these Masses also varies depending on which mission, order, etc. is arranging them. Also fine. I know that some places have fewer priests to say these and get too many requests, so they increase the stipend in order to get a reasonable workload while still receiving the suggested donation amount that they need to support themselves.

What is weird though is that I discovered if I send the check to the diocese for these, it costs an extra 100 dollars than if I just send the check directly to the mission society they use and ask for the same thing.

I specifically asked the diocese if they take any sort of administrative fee or donation for arranging the Masses (in other words do they get the 100 dollars and then send the other 200 dollars on to the missions). They insisted they did not.

…

Maybe I can help explain.

It seems to me that the diocese asks for $10 per Mass.

It seems to me that the Mission society will offer 30 Masses for a donation of $200.

When the diocese processes these requests, they ask for a uniform donation (in this case $10 each). In that way, they can likewise be uniform in how they distribute the Masses among missionaries, retirees, non-parochial priests, small parish priests, etc. etc.

So if they ask a priest who is doing academic work (doesn’t have a parish assignment) to say 30 Masses, they send him $10 for each one. Here I mean 30 Masses for 30 different people. They do the same for every other priest, to keep things uniform. If someone donates $15 to the diocese, they can legitimately keep the extra $5 and not pass that along, but put it into the priest retirement account instead (this is allowed by canon law); or they can use the extra $5 to make up for someone who only donated $5 instead of the recommended $10.

The Mission society, it seems to me (and that’s important) says that if one person requests 30 Masses for the same person (the traditional so-called Gregorian Masses) they only expect a donation of $20. Somehow, they work that out internally. Maybe the priests have all taken a vow of poverty so the stipend goes to the Order instead? I don’t like using this phrase, but it’s a bit like a “quantity discount” in economic terms. If the diocese send them the full $300 they accept it, but they don’t expect an individual to make the same donation.

That would be my educated guess on how they operate and why you (as an individual) see a difference.

 

[1ke]

What I object to are nebulous payments made to some umbrella charity or to “the diocese” (not even my own parish) or any other stipend where I have no idea where the money is going.

You can ask where the money is going. In our diocese the priest retirement fund is a pension fund. Parishes make contributions to it annually, just like any employer.

Stipends are something else entirely.

 

[FrDavid96]

Our parish is large, and there are more Mass requests than can be said locally. The overflow requests are sent to the missions along with the applicable stipend. Those intentions said in the parish are published in the bulletin, but my understanding is that there is no requirement either to publish the intentions or to announce them. However, priests are under a canonical obligation to fullfill Mass intentions for which stipends have been accepted.

Yes, that’s how it works.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When the diocese processes these requests, they ask for a uniform donation (in this case $10 each). In that way, they can likewise be uniform in how they distribute the Masses among missionaries, retirees, non-parochial priests, small parish priests, etc. etc.

This would be reasonable, but when there is no explanation on the website, and the person who answers the phone is not explaining it to me (all she would have had to say is “we take X percent for the priest’s retirement fund” (or the Diocese umbrella charity or whatever) " and the rest goes to the missions" ), then I have no idea what is going on, and I feel nervous about sending them a check.

It may be that this is an unusual request, as perhaps not many people know about Gregorian Masses or would take the time to ferret out the info on the diocesan website, and she just didn’t know.

But I will just send the check directly to the missions anyway, and if I need to give locally, I’m sure the pastor at my parish church can use an extra donation, even if they do not have room on their Mass calendar for my intention.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You can ask where the money is going. In our diocese the priest retirement fund is a pension fund. Parishes make contributions to it annually, just like any employer.

We never hear about this in any of the churches I go to.

They do promote other charities, such as the local hunger center, and I give to those because I know where they are, what they do, etc. The key, for me, is just knowing who’s getting my money and what they’re doing with it. It’s not much to ask.

 

[1ke]

We never hear about this in any of the churches I go to.

The annual report is posted on our diocesan website every year. And at the parish level I post our annual report.

Your parish has one, you just have to ask. Same for the diocese.