D
distracted
Guest
I would like to know if you think priests should be allowed to marry and still stay in the priesthood… If so, Why or why not??
- Status
D
dosdog
Guest
Celibacy of the Clergy
Speaking, for the moment, only of Western Christendom, the candidates for orders are solemnly warned by the bishop at the beginning of the ceremony regarding the gravity of the obligation which they are incurring. He tells them:
You ought anxiously to consider again and again what sort of a burden this is which you are taking upon you of your own accord. Up to this you are free. You may still, if you choose, turn to the aims and desires of the world (licet vobis pro artitrio ad caecularia vota transire). But if you receive this order (of the subdiaconate) it will no longer be lawful to turn back from your purpose. You will be required to continue in the service of God, and with His assistance to observe chastity and to be bound for ever in the ministrations of the Altar, to serve who is to reign.
By stepping forward despite this warning, when invited to do so, and by co-operating in the rest of the ordination service, the candidate is understood to bind himself equivalently by a vow of chastity. He is henceforth unable to contract a valid marriage, and any serious transgression in the matter of this vow is not only a grievous sin in itself but incurs the additional guilt of sacrilege.
newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
Speaking, for the moment, only of Western Christendom, the candidates for orders are solemnly warned by the bishop at the beginning of the ceremony regarding the gravity of the obligation which they are incurring. He tells them:
You ought anxiously to consider again and again what sort of a burden this is which you are taking upon you of your own accord. Up to this you are free. You may still, if you choose, turn to the aims and desires of the world (licet vobis pro artitrio ad caecularia vota transire). But if you receive this order (of the subdiaconate) it will no longer be lawful to turn back from your purpose. You will be required to continue in the service of God, and with His assistance to observe chastity and to be bound for ever in the ministrations of the Altar, to serve who is to reign.
By stepping forward despite this warning, when invited to do so, and by co-operating in the rest of the ordination service, the candidate is understood to bind himself equivalently by a vow of chastity. He is henceforth unable to contract a valid marriage, and any serious transgression in the matter of this vow is not only a grievous sin in itself but incurs the additional guilt of sacrilege.
newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
K
Karmastrike
Guest
Why do people keep asking this question! No,no,no. Its been no for the pope, and he has stated that it will “never” happen. This question goes along with women-priests.
H
HashemEchad
Guest
As a non-Christian, this doesn’t affect me. But I do have one question:
Why is the Latin (Western) Rite of the RCC so much against allowing priests to marry, when it is a tradition only?
The Eastern Rites of the Catholic church permit priests to marry. I remember, years ago, actually meeting a priest of the Ruthenian Catholic (Eastern Catholic) church, who had a wife in tow and two twin boys!
Why is the Latin (Western) Rite of the RCC so much against allowing priests to marry, when it is a tradition only?
The Eastern Rites of the Catholic church permit priests to marry. I remember, years ago, actually meeting a priest of the Ruthenian Catholic (Eastern Catholic) church, who had a wife in tow and two twin boys!
D
dosdog
Guest
The Trullan Synod (692 A.D.), also known as the Quinisext, determined that bishops should not be married, but marriage was permitted for deacons and priests before ordination. No marriage was allowed after ordination. A priest or a deacon could not renounce his wife on the pretense of piety, but sexual relations were prohibited prior to celebrating the liturgy, which usually meant the Sunday observance
byzantines.net/epiphany/ordination.htm
STRAIGHT ANSWERS
What’s the deal about legally married priests?
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MARPRIE.htm
byzantines.net/epiphany/ordination.htm
STRAIGHT ANSWERS
Father William P. Saunders
What’s the deal about legally married priests?ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MARPRIE.htm
D
distracted
Guest
I am not so sure this is a universally accepted notion of ordination vows… for one thing, how can a person be perpetually bound by oaths taken at one time in his life when he doesn’t know the future and how things can change in his cirucumstances/relationships?? When he is ordained, he may be 100% sure he wnts to be celibate becasue he isn’t in love with anyone and (etc.)… but in 20 yrs, things could change drastically…
forever is a very long time… How can a mere human being make such a vow, pledging his future, as if he knows what that future will hold?
D
distracted
Guest
no it doesn’t… priests marrying is something that has happened in the Church before and could happen in the future… Women can never be priests…
D
distracted
Guest
I used to think that was not so… “right”… but now i have changed… I have lived longer, learned more, seen more, experienced more… That is not to say I am therefore more “right” in everything i think and say and do… but I feel that some priests should be allowed to marry…
some Catholics would probably die of shock if they heard me say this, but oh well… they don’t know what i know, haven’t walked a mile in my shoes, etc…
I have met some of the grouchiest, most un-kind, cold, uncaring priests (especially during confession)… and i sometimes wonder if , were they to have a wife -and, especially if they had CHILDREN, maybe they would not be so grouchy, would learn a little compassion, empathy… LOVE… I have known many priests (yes, many) who were anything BUT loving or compassionate… Maybe they are tired of always feeling like they are losing out or something… (?).
and to me, their “grouchines” / lack of compassion is not acceptable in the line of “work” thye are in… Love is what it is *supposed *to be all about…
to me, it is virtually ONLY the experience of having/raising children that causes a person to come out of his or her selfishness… and lack of empathy…etc
Yes, i know someone is going to say Well, priests have children - the whole parish is their family…
Needless to say, that is NOT the same thing… and anyone who has lived alone for a very long time knows that…
D
dosdog
Guest
On October 7, 1950, Mother Teresa received permission from the Holy See to start her own order, “The Missionaries of Charity”, whose primary task was to love and care for those persons nobody was prepared to look after. In 1965 the Society became an International Religious Family by a decree of Pope Paul VI.
nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-bio.html
Father Damien of Molokai
He began all of his sermons with, “We lepers,” showing his solidarity with his people. By 1884, he had contracted Hansen’s diesease (leprosy). The ravages of the disease slowly disfigured his face, hands, and body, and caused violent coughing fits and internal pain. After 16 years of working with and serving his faithful community, Father Damien died on April 15, 1889
damienministries.org/history/
hawaii.gov/about/damien.htm
nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-bio.html
Father Damien of Molokai
He began all of his sermons with, “We lepers,” showing his solidarity with his people. By 1884, he had contracted Hansen’s diesease (leprosy). The ravages of the disease slowly disfigured his face, hands, and body, and caused violent coughing fits and internal pain. After 16 years of working with and serving his faithful community, Father Damien died on April 15, 1889
damienministries.org/history/
hawaii.gov/about/damien.htm
D
distracted
Guest
D
distracted
Guest
this is a beautiful story but why do you mention it here??
D
dosdog
Guest
Celibacy according to tradition
Living a celibate life within marriage was not unknown in Jewish tradition. It was told that Moses, who was married, remained continent the rest of his life after the command to abstain from sexual intercourse (Ex 19:15) given in preparation the seventy elders abstained thereafter from their wives after their call, and so did Eldad and Medad when the spirit of prophecy came upon them; indeed it was said that the prophets became celibate after the Word of the Lord communicated with them (Midrash Exodus Rabbah 19; 46.3; Sifre to Numbers 99 sect. 11; Sifre Zutta 81-82, 203-204; Aboth Rabbi Nathan 9, 39; Tanchuman 111, 46; Tanchumah Zaw 13; 3 Petirot Moshe 72; Shabbath 87a; Pesachim 87b, Babylonian Talmud).
Elijah and Elisha were celibate al their lives (Zohar Hadash 2:1; Midrash Mishlei 30, 105, Pirke Rabbi Eliezer 33). When for the sake of the Torah (i.e., intense study in it), a rabbi would abstain from relations with his wife, it was deemed permissible, for he was then cohabiting with the Shekinah (the “Divine Presence”) in the Torah (Zohar re Gn 1:27; 13:3 and Psalm 85:14 in the Discourse of Rabbi Phineas to Rabbis Jose, Judah, and Hiya).
“if a person cleaves to the study of the Torah (i.e., dedicates all his time to it) like Simeon ben Azzai, his refusal to marry can be condoned” (Skulkhan Arukh EH 1:4). Rabbinic scholar Simeon ben Azzai (early second century A.D.) was extraordinary in his learning: “with the passing of Ben Azzai diligent scholars passed from the earth” (Sotah 9:15). He never married and was celibate all his life so as not to be distracted from his studies, and because he considered the Torah his wife, for who he always yearned with all his soul (Yebamoth 63b). He was an outstanding scholar (Kiddushin 20a, B.T.) and also renowned for his saintliness (Berakoth 57b, B.T.).
Other celibates
Jewish tradition also mentions the celibate Zenu’im (lit. “chaste ones”) to whom the secret of the Name of God was entrusted, for they were able to preserve the Holy Name in “perfect purity” (Kiddushin 71a; Midash Ecclesiastes Rabbah 3:11; Yer. yoma 39a, 40a).
Those in hope of a divine revelation consequently refrained from sexual intercourse and were strict in matters of purity (Enoch 83:2; Revelation 14:2-5).
cin.org/users/james/files/talmud.htm
The Trullan Synod (692 A.D.), also known as the Quinisext, determined that bishops should not be married, but marriage was permitted for deacons and priests before ordination. No marriage was allowed after ordination. A priest or a deacon could not renounce his wife on the pretense of piety, but sexual relations were prohibited prior to celebrating the liturgy, which usually meant the Sunday observance
byzantines.net/epiphany/ordination.htm
Historians have long pointed to the Essenes as the forerunner to the Christians. It is known that early Christians took much from the Essenes they withdrew themselves to the desert to live in enclaves which might be called communes but which bear a significant resemblance to later monasteries. Essenes did not marry; they shared property in common; they ate all meals together; and they lived a strictly regulated life of study and prayer; and they held themselves to a higher standard of virtue than others outside their community
John the Baptist seems to have belonged to the Essenes
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/hi…esu/topic2.htm
jewishencyclopedia.com/vi…er=E&artid=478
Celibacy of the Clergy
Speaking, for the moment, only of Western Christendom, the candidates for orders are solemnly warned by the bishop at the beginning of the ceremony regarding the gravity of the obligation which they are incurring. He tells them:
You ought anxiously to consider again and again what sort of a burden this is which you are taking upon you of your own accord. Up to this you are free. You may still, if you choose, turn to the aims and desires of the world (licet vobis pro artitrio ad caecularia vota transire). But if you receive this order (of the subdiaconate) it will no longer be lawful to turn back from your purpose. You will be required to continue in the service of God, and with His assistance to observe chastity and to be bound for ever in the ministrations of the Altar, to serve who is to reign.
By stepping forward despite this warning, when invited to do so, and by co-operating in the rest of the ordination service, the candidate is understood to bind himself equivalently by a vow of chastity. He is henceforth unable to contract a valid marriage, and any serious transgression in the matter of this vow is not only a grievous sin in itself but incurs the additional guilt of sacrilege.
newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
Living a celibate life within marriage was not unknown in Jewish tradition. It was told that Moses, who was married, remained continent the rest of his life after the command to abstain from sexual intercourse (Ex 19:15) given in preparation the seventy elders abstained thereafter from their wives after their call, and so did Eldad and Medad when the spirit of prophecy came upon them; indeed it was said that the prophets became celibate after the Word of the Lord communicated with them (Midrash Exodus Rabbah 19; 46.3; Sifre to Numbers 99 sect. 11; Sifre Zutta 81-82, 203-204; Aboth Rabbi Nathan 9, 39; Tanchuman 111, 46; Tanchumah Zaw 13; 3 Petirot Moshe 72; Shabbath 87a; Pesachim 87b, Babylonian Talmud).
Elijah and Elisha were celibate al their lives (Zohar Hadash 2:1; Midrash Mishlei 30, 105, Pirke Rabbi Eliezer 33). When for the sake of the Torah (i.e., intense study in it), a rabbi would abstain from relations with his wife, it was deemed permissible, for he was then cohabiting with the Shekinah (the “Divine Presence”) in the Torah (Zohar re Gn 1:27; 13:3 and Psalm 85:14 in the Discourse of Rabbi Phineas to Rabbis Jose, Judah, and Hiya).
“if a person cleaves to the study of the Torah (i.e., dedicates all his time to it) like Simeon ben Azzai, his refusal to marry can be condoned” (Skulkhan Arukh EH 1:4). Rabbinic scholar Simeon ben Azzai (early second century A.D.) was extraordinary in his learning: “with the passing of Ben Azzai diligent scholars passed from the earth” (Sotah 9:15). He never married and was celibate all his life so as not to be distracted from his studies, and because he considered the Torah his wife, for who he always yearned with all his soul (Yebamoth 63b). He was an outstanding scholar (Kiddushin 20a, B.T.) and also renowned for his saintliness (Berakoth 57b, B.T.).
Other celibates
Jewish tradition also mentions the celibate Zenu’im (lit. “chaste ones”) to whom the secret of the Name of God was entrusted, for they were able to preserve the Holy Name in “perfect purity” (Kiddushin 71a; Midash Ecclesiastes Rabbah 3:11; Yer. yoma 39a, 40a).
Those in hope of a divine revelation consequently refrained from sexual intercourse and were strict in matters of purity (Enoch 83:2; Revelation 14:2-5).
cin.org/users/james/files/talmud.htm
The Trullan Synod (692 A.D.), also known as the Quinisext, determined that bishops should not be married, but marriage was permitted for deacons and priests before ordination. No marriage was allowed after ordination. A priest or a deacon could not renounce his wife on the pretense of piety, but sexual relations were prohibited prior to celebrating the liturgy, which usually meant the Sunday observance
byzantines.net/epiphany/ordination.htm
Historians have long pointed to the Essenes as the forerunner to the Christians. It is known that early Christians took much from the Essenes they withdrew themselves to the desert to live in enclaves which might be called communes but which bear a significant resemblance to later monasteries. Essenes did not marry; they shared property in common; they ate all meals together; and they lived a strictly regulated life of study and prayer; and they held themselves to a higher standard of virtue than others outside their community
John the Baptist seems to have belonged to the Essenes
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/hi…esu/topic2.htm
jewishencyclopedia.com/vi…er=E&artid=478
Celibacy of the Clergy
Speaking, for the moment, only of Western Christendom, the candidates for orders are solemnly warned by the bishop at the beginning of the ceremony regarding the gravity of the obligation which they are incurring. He tells them:
You ought anxiously to consider again and again what sort of a burden this is which you are taking upon you of your own accord. Up to this you are free. You may still, if you choose, turn to the aims and desires of the world (licet vobis pro artitrio ad caecularia vota transire). But if you receive this order (of the subdiaconate) it will no longer be lawful to turn back from your purpose. You will be required to continue in the service of God, and with His assistance to observe chastity and to be bound for ever in the ministrations of the Altar, to serve who is to reign.
By stepping forward despite this warning, when invited to do so, and by co-operating in the rest of the ordination service, the candidate is understood to bind himself equivalently by a vow of chastity. He is henceforth unable to contract a valid marriage, and any serious transgression in the matter of this vow is not only a grievous sin in itself but incurs the additional guilt of sacrilege.
newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
A
adstrinity
Guest
A man has years and years to think about his commitment. If at any time before he becomes ordained, he is free to leave his teachings for another vocation in life or more time. It is a calling. Maybe he will fall in love years down the line, that doesn’t mean that he should leave the priesthood, besides, one can control the love given to another person.
Forever IS a long time, but, this is about corporeal things here and not about forever.
D
distracted
Guest
this sounds too harsh… I mean, it is like saying a priest who feels “compelled” to marry, would, nonethelss, have to stay in the priesthood against his wishes and be forced to serve God in this way… Should a person be forced to be a priest?? I am not saying priests should just leave the priesthood on a whim, whenever they happen to so- called fall in love… But if a person just can’t leave the significant other alone… and… they are serious about each other and all that… they are going to continue seeing each other anyway…
I am sure many priests enter the priesthood with no intention of keeping this vow… i have read stories of priests who seemed not to have ever respected their vows from Day One… Yes, i know, that is supposed to be the exception and not the rule… but we have a shortage of priests… I am not sure the bishop would forbid such persons from being ordained if he knew of their lack of true intention… But anyway… i am digressing from my main point… which i forgot…
H
HashemEchad
Guest
D
dosdog
Guest
The Atlanta Archdiocese recently updated its official Catholic population figure, nearly doubling in size to 650,000 from 350,000. Leaders said the new headcount better reflects reality as the church comes to grips with its 10 years of explosive growth. The new population number for the first time counts people not in the habit of registering as parishioners either for cultural reasons or out of concerns the registry might be used as a tool for immigration enforcement. georgiabulletin.org/local/2007/09/06/pop/
Number of Catholics and Priests Rises
Pontifical Yearbook of 2007 Releases Data
The 2007 edition of the yearbook, presented to Benedict XVI today, stated that as of year-end 2005, the latest date for which data are available, there were 1.115 billion Catholics worldwide. showed an increase of 1.5% of Catholics compared with the 1.098 billion listed the previous year.
there are some areas where Catholic growth was greater than population growth.
There was an increase of 3.1% of Catholics in Africa, whose population has grown by slightly less than 2.5%, the communiqué said. “The Asian and American continents have also registered a higher increase in Catholics than in population growth, 2.71% against 1.18% for Asia, and 1.2% against 0.9% for America,” continued the Vatican statement. There was a slight increase of Catholics in Europe.
The Pontifical Yearbook revealed that the number of diocesan and religious priests rose to 406,411 from 405,891
The percentage increases were much higher in Asia and Africa, 3.8% and 3.55%, respectively, it noted. This is in contrast to "Europe and America with a percentage decrease of about a half point,
Africa and Asia proportionately had more priests, the Vatican statement noted: “Africa and Asia together provided 19.58% to the world’s overall number in 2004; in 2005 their contribution had risen to 20.28%.”
The Americas maintained a percentage of around 29.8%, while Oceania stayed stable, at slightly over 1% of the world’s priests, according to the communiqué
jknirp.com/numcat.htm
St. Louis Archdiocese ordains largest number of priests in 21 years
ST. LOUIS (CNS) – When Archbishop Raymond L. Burke of St. Louis ordained nine men to the priesthood for the archdiocese May 24, it was the largest ordination class for the archdiocese since 1987. In addition five other seminarians from St. Louis were being ordained in coming weeks for other dioceses. In his homily at the ordination Mass, Archbishop Burke urged the congregation to pray for the nine men “so that they may always and in everything conform themselves to the grace conferred upon them in ordination, that they may be holy shepherds of the flock whom God the Father entrusts to their pastoral care.” The archbishop urged the nine men to be “attentive to guide God’s people in the way of justice which leads to lasting peace.” He also told them their “priestly teaching and guidance will inspire and strengthen all of the faithful in the transformation of the culture of violence and death, in which we live, into a civilization of selfless love and life.”
catholicnews.com/data/briefs/cns/20080529.htm#head4
D
distracted
Guest
Well, Catholicism came from Judaism… and frankly, they probably should have retained this idea of man being “half” if not married… I mean, i believe in celibacy… but not necessarily forever and always… I think it is unrealistic and i think it is selfish of a lot of Catholics to expect priests to remain celibate forever…
that’s just my 'humble" opinion…
But Jesus was God… and although he was sent to show usthe way by example, His primary mission was to be an expiation for our sins so we could get to Heaven…
I think that is a valid belief…
So, am i understanding this? You are not Jewish… ?
Then what religion are you? did you used to be Jewish?? cause you seem to know a lot about it…
D
dosdog
Guest
Vows
General view
A vow is defined as a promise made to God. The promise is binding, and so differs from a simple resolution which is a present purpose to do or omit certain things in the future.
newadvent.org/cathen/15511a.htm
General view
A vow is defined as a promise made to God. The promise is binding, and so differs from a simple resolution which is a present purpose to do or omit certain things in the future.
newadvent.org/cathen/15511a.htm
C
Cathdefender
Guest
No. Priests follow the example of Jesus Christ who was not married.
P
PaulDupre
Guest
Agreed. I get annoyed with this talk of “falling in love”. “Falling in love” means a sexual/romantic infatuation, not real love. Real love is not something you fall into or get swept away by. Real love is a decision you make to treat a person in a certain way no matter what. It does not not grab control of your gonads and make you its slave - that is silly adolescent nonsense.
A mature man, be he a married layman or a celibate priest, recognizes inappropriate romantic/sexual feelings for what they are - simple glandular urges that have no basis in true love and should be ignored.
Hopefully by the time a man is ordained a Catholic priest (at least 8 years), he will be that mature man I described above.
Paul
- Status