Do you think that a Catholic who supports a pro-choice candidate is a heretic?

[mikew262]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t most places have laws against suicide?

Hmm… why have a law against suicide? Who are you going to put in jail? The corpse? I’m not sure any attempted suicide victim was ever put in jail. Now anybody helping somebody else commit suicide is another story.

Maybe we have a lawyer hanging out here that could answer.

 

[mikew262]

I guess that I just cannot understand how anyone in this country can put ‘any’ issue (such as taxes, terrorism, etc.) ‘over’ the issue of the fundamental human right to life.

With all due respect, you are being a little naive. Welcome to the political process. People vote on candidates and issues based on what is personally important to them. To some it is the abortion issue, to others, medical care, others, the war, and so on.

 

[StevenFrancis]

And this is what happens when Religion interferes too much with politics.

One person’s candidate may absolutely represent everything that person believes in except the life vs. choice issue. The pro-life candidate, except for the life vs choice issue, doesn’t have anything else in common with that one person. However, the person is obligated by the Church to vote for the pro-life candidate. Anybody else see a problem here?

First, I want to stay that I am fully anti-abortion. In fact, when I say pro-life, I MEAN pro-life. No abortion, no death penalty, only DEFENSIVE war on one’s own land after ALL POSSIBLE diplomatic efforts have failed. Foreign military aid only offered IF ASKED, and then only long enough to secure a cease fire so that diplomacy can work, No embryonic stem cells, No in-vitro fertilization. I mean I finally get it. I’m there. Man must not be allowed to kill man. God has said so directly to man in at least 2 of his three persons. I didn’t always feel this way, but I do now. All the tumblers kicked in during my conversion, and I am ON BOARD. Now…

There are only two major parties in the USA. We’ll call them party A and party B.

Party A are known as hard nosed, no nonsense people. They are tough on crime, they favor war over diplomacy, they favor the death penalty. If you look at the Beattitudes of Jesus Christ, they just went right down the line and espouse the opposite of our saviours’ teachings. There ideas are SO reprehensible from a truly Christian standpoint, that they co-opted the abortion and pre-birth issues as a stroke of genius in order to ensure that even if the rest of their chicanery is exposed to loyal party members, they are STILL obliged to vote for party A because of the 2 “Pro-life” issues they adopted. Brilliant strategy. They don’t have anything else to sell, that anyone could stomach otherwise. So what’s the one thing that will guilt people into staying with us, no matter what else we do??? You guessed it.

Party B philosophies mirror those of Jesus right down the list in the beattitudes, but unfortunately, they allowed their policies of tolerance and inclusion, (which are noble ideals), to reach a tipping point that many can’t deal with. They seem to have manipulated Christ’s ideas of ‘tolerance’ in some moral issues, (which would be accompanied by cautionary advice), to the extremes of immoral freedom, (unbridled 'endorsement and encouragement). They also have a pet problem of “pro-choice”, due to the backlash of guilt brought about through the feminist movement of the 70’s and early 80’s. As with everything else, they let things get too far out of hand the other way. The right to work for equal pay, (quite right), somehow tranformed itself to the right to “choose” murder (not so right). This B party now fights for this right strongly. On issues of social justice, housing, education, medical care for all, helping the poor, party B holds all the cards, and are VERY Christian, though they would never acknowledge that, and we must all be JudeoChristianMuslimBuddhistHIndus in the ‘new age’.

So both Pary A and Party B have got it wrong.

Party C will never happen in this country unless we had publically financed campaigns.

When we are told that abortion is the only issue, it leads us squarely to Party A, which is the Party FARTHEST from the teachings of Christ in every other conceivable way!!!

I can not support Party A as a Christian under any front EXCEPT abortion. I can not accept Party B, because they wish to preserve abortion.

I also can’t in good conscience vote for one over the other to be voting against the other one, since that is the same thing.

I wan’t to vote for Party B, for every reason except one.

Since I am in danger of my soul apparently for voting with the party that is most Christ like I’m in a real quandry. What is that telling me?

So…unless a member of Party B, is willing to take back the abortion issue from Party A, then I have no candidate. A vote for either party is unethical in my way of interpreting the scriptures and traditions of my faith.

I will abstain until the day there are viable Party B candidates who are against abortion, or, there is a REAL Party C. I wouldn’t vote for Party A, even if they were the only party, and I was forced to vote for them under threat of death.

 

[Jayda]

hola,

the Canon law says this…

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Can. 753 Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care; the Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.

i think it is very clear that they could be considered heretics…

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[fix]

You can certainly express your interest to them that they change his/her position on Abortion if you so desire, same as any other position you may disagree with.

So, would you hold to your position if the candidiate was in favor of decriminalizing child pornography or was in favor of banning females from voting?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Let’s add this too, when does the rights of that life overule the rights of property? And is this life the property of the mother?

Apparently the 13th Amendment is set aside too, and the child is simply property – to be thrown in the garbage at the “owner’s” whim.

 

[Julian_Peters]

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Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed. Please start new threads for non-related topics to the OP.