Do you think that the church will ever accept gay marriage?

[Tantum_ergo]

My point is that the church doesn’t follow everything that Paul mentions, so why do they keep to the teachings on homosexuality?

First, you haven’t pointed any such thing.

So your point becomes moot.

The Church doesn’t ‘pick and choose’ which teachings to follow at which time.

The teachings on homosexuality are not simply those of ‘St. Paul.’

They are the teachings of God, which St. Paul has simply reiterated. It’s not like there wasn’t mention earlier in Scripture you know.

 

[Jvrlns]

Sure thing :aok:

I think extremism begets extremism. The rules of the Church are so strict that people who can’t live up to them swing to the opposite extreme of hedonism. I think a little tolerance for nonprocreative sex among married heterosexuals will go a long way. Consider it this way: Imagine a married couple uses ABC (yes, I know it’s considered a sin), but later they change their minds and decide to have children. Imagine a couple is having premarital sex (I know, also a sin), but later they change their minds and decide to get married. These people can change their minds and improve their moral behavior. Thus, what they do should not be in the same category as homosexual couples. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with those heterosexuals being together as a couple; there is something intrinsically wrong with the homosexual couple, something which can never change. The heterosexual couple can always improve morally and still be a couple. The homosexuals cannot improve morally and still be a couple. Perhaps if ABC or premarital sex in a committed heterosexual couple were regarded as a venial sin, instead of a mortal sin, then heterosexuals would not be so quick to see themselves in the same boat as the gays. But when the Church says ABC or premarital sex in a heterosexual couple is equally sinful as gay sex, then those heterosexuals are being *put( in the exact same boat as the gays and naturally they are going to cooperate with them.

I’m sorry but I can’t go along with that.

Deemphasizing premarital sex and emphasizing homosexual sex is moral relativism and it encourages the tendency of viewing premarital sex as not OK but hec! we’re human.

Why encourage homosexuals to be chaste but relativize chastity in unmarried couples

 

[kage_ar]

But many yrs from now one of these young people may become Pope and who knows what the Pope might declare. Perhaps that Pope would discover a new understanding of Scripture as some of the mainline churches have. No one knows what Christ might tell a Pope well into the future.

If this happened, either that pope would be an anti-pope or Christ would be a liar, we would have no faith and Christianity would be a lie.

God cannot change, truth cannot change. No matter how popuar the sin is…

 

[DanteAlighieri]

The question is not and never will be whether the Church will “accept” gay marriage; the question is and always will be whether there is such a thing as gay marriage.

A marriage is, by definition, a sacramental union between a man and a woman. Period. End of discussion. This is not the opinion of a group of prudish old celibate clergymen – it is the truth. To call cohabitation between two men or two women (whether recognized by the state or not) a marriage is to use the word incorrectly.

You wouldn’t use the name “football” to describe a game in which men hit a ball with a bat and run around the bases – that’s not what the word means.

And just as a man and a woman cohabitating sexually is not a marriage – and therefore sinful – so also with a gay couple.

Peace,
Dante

 

[kage_ar]

But how about if you see two men hugging and kissing? Is that something you want your kid to see? Is it okay if the two men are married? How will you explain it to your kid. Imagine the “birds and bees” talk you’ll have to give your kid.

I live in po-dunk Arkanasas and we see PDAs between same sex couples on a regular basis, in the parks, in restaurants, on the street. I can’t imagine where in the US or Europe this is not a common thing

Christian parents teach kids morals and immorality in front of them does not change the truth. My kid knows right from wrong, and when he sees wrong he KNOWS it is wrong.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

*I live in po-dunk Arkanasas and we see PDAs between same sex couples on a regular basis, in the parks, in restaurants, on the street. I can’t imagine where in the US or Europe this is not a common thing *

Lubbock, Texas :clapping::dancing:

 

[CatholicGuy22]

If the church will start accepting gay marriages i would just leave. This would prove the church was false and the atheists were right But thank God this will never happen because we have stood the test of time and we made decisions that were not popular to society but we still stayed true to our faith by the guidence of the Holy Spirit. No matter what happens the True Church will never change PERIOD.

God bless

 

[mangy_dog]

I live in po-dunk Arkanasas and we see PDAs between same sex couples on a regular basis, in the parks, in restaurants, on the street. I can’t imagine where in the US or Europe this is not a common thing

Christian parents teach kids morals and immorality in front of them does not change the truth. My kid knows right from wrong, and when he sees wrong he KNOWS it is wrong.

[marriage] between homosexuals is just another sign of the times and a sign that the antichrist, Lucifer and his demons are alive and active in the world and in men’s consciences.

It is just one of many evils occuring in our country.

 

[mackbrislawn]

For decades, we have been hammered by the false doctrine of ‘tolerance.’ What it actually means is: I want you to not only accept, but embrace my sins, and shut your mouth eternally about your morality and your God.

So what’s tolerant about that?

Yep, there is no one more intolerant than one who preaches “tolerance.”

 

[vera_dicere]

Bar the anti-Christ or some secretly gay guy ending up Pope, I doubt the Church will change Her opinion.

For all we know, homosexual “rights” may fail completely and they’ll give up.

But frankly, I think we’re likely to nuke ourselves off the planet in the next generation or so.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Bar the anti-Christ or some secretly gay guy ending up Pope, I doubt the Church will change Her opinion.

Historians tell us that more than one pope from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance were gay, and that it was public knowledge among those in the know. Yet the Holy Spirit protected the Church’s teachings on homosexuality then and still does.

The smoke of Satan may have entered the Church many times in history, even up to Peter’s throne. Yet that is all it has ever amounted to … smoke and mirrors. Unlike some Protestants sects, the Church cannot and will not ever change or dilute its principal teachings on morality to accomodate the world. This does not mean that some within the Church will not seek to do exactly that. They will fail … *Deo gratias! *

 

[peary]

Nope.

 

[Jvrlns]

Bar the anti-Christ or some secretly gay guy ending up Pope, I doubt the Church will change Her opinion.

For all we know, homosexual “rights” may fail completely and they’ll give up.

But frankly, I think we’re likely to nuke ourselves off the planet in the next generation or so.

With all the attention the Pope gets I find quite difficult to imagine him sneaking out of the Vatican in the middle of the night to visit a gay bar in Rome.

Some secretly gay guy ending up Pope doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to engage in homosexual acts or change church doctine on homosexuality, even if he lived in sin.

Take for example Pope Roderic Borgia(Alexander VI). He had 5 children with his italian lover Vannozza Cattanei(a married woman), 2 of them the infamous Cesar and Lucrecia Borgia and 2 other with Julia Farnesio. Among other things attributed to him are nepotism and slavery yet in all his official documents never deviated one bit from church doctrine.

 

[fms]

Thou Art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will never prevail against it…

Those who do not uphold to the end the Church’s teaching on divorce, contraception, etc. ‘never really belonged’.

What kind of a church would that be that followed the current fad?

Just look at the Anglican Church. It’s disintegration is spectacular.

I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven…

Another proof of the Catholic Church being the true Church (or at least truer than the Anglican Church).

In many Western Countries, adultery is no longer a crime or no longer enforced, yet it still is forbidden by God’s commandments and its effects remain devastating.

Early Teachings on Homosexuality

Cf. CCC 2357-2359

 

[Realist]

Precisely - they see marriage as the opposite of sexual freedom, which is what homosexuality (for them) is supposed to be all about.

“For them”? You mean all gay people? Because being gay by default means one automatically holds the same values and beliefs as every other gay person? Give me a break. Get off your soap box. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

You know, cherry picking and misrepresentation irk me.

Here is the post J made before the post you’re responding to, Realist.

		 			 	Quote:
 	 		 			 				 					Originally Posted by **hellopeople** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6377100#post6377100) 				
			*I think the gay marriage issue is a human rights issue and the majority of the children being born now will either be for gay marriage or labeled a bigot and a homophobe. I think the church will change their stance on it.

JMcrae responds:

I know gay people who can’t figure out why any gay person would want to “ape” heterosexual marriage, in the first place. They don’t see it as a “civil rights” issue - they see it as insecure gay people wanting to “be like” heterosexuals - kind of like black people who straighten their hair and lighten their skin with chemicals, in order to “be like” white people.

Based on what I’m seeing in the gay community around here, the “gay marriage” fad will die out fairly soon.
__________________

Note that he is speaking of ‘some’ gay people and those he sees in his particular area, not 'all gay people."

And then another poster says that he say something similar in the 1970s and 1980s among people HE knew. . .

and THAT is when the post that you ‘pluck’ was made.

If you’re touting yourself as a Realist, then get truly real and know your facts before you try to accuse people of something they aren’t guilty of. . .

 

[Realist]

Good catch, Tantum. I wasn’t being as careful a reader/responder as I should have been. My bad. It looks like I indeed misinterpreted jm’s message.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

There’s no such thing as homosexual marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Two people of the same sex pretending to be married doesn’t mean they are married. I can call myself a rhinocheros - it doesn’t mean that I am a rhinoceros. It’s like the women ordaining themselves priests and bishops - they’re just deluding themselves, and cutting themselves off from God and His Church in the process.

 

[Realist]

There’s no such thing as homosexual marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Two people of the same sex pretending to be married doesn’t mean they are married. I can call myself a rhinocheros - it doesn’t mean that I am a rhinoceros. It’s like the women ordaining themselves priests and bishops - they’re just deluding themselves, and cutting themselves off from God and His Church in the process.

So all those gay couples in DC who have just taken advantage of their newly granted right to get married aren’t really married? The government is issuing them what? Pretend marriage certificates? It’s unclear whether you’re talking about marriage within the catholic church or marriage generally. If you’re talking only about marriage within the church, then, yeah, obviously the catholic church isn’t quite as progressive as many state governments. Honestly, though, it has to be difficult being a catholic in a committed gay relationship. Does anyone know if there’s a big openly practicing gay community in the catholic church?

 

[markomalley]

So all those gay couples in DC who have just taken advantage of their newly granted right to get married aren’t really married?

Nope.

The government is issuing them what? Pretend marriage certificates?

Basically.

It’s unclear whether you’re talking about marriage within the catholic church or marriage generally. If you’re talking only about marriage within the church, then, yeah, obviously the catholic church isn’t quite as progressive as many state governments. Honestly, though, it has to be difficult being a catholic in a committed gay relationship. Does anyone know if there’s a big openly practicing gay community in the catholic church?

Not in the Catholic Church. There are some who are pretend in the Catholic Church. But not in it.

On a philosophical basis, marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman for the purpose of becoming one (unative) and for producing progeny (procreative). It is not possible for homosexuals to have that procreative characteristic. It is, at best, a counterfeit for them to claim to have the unative characteristic, as God didn’t design the human species in that fashion (that is likely why it has been condemned throughout the Bible…it is a deceptive and destructive counterfeit).