Do you think that the church will ever accept gay marriage?

[Lutheranteach]

Manny

*If you look at the gay marriage it is all about financial gains. $$$ *

To a degree. But it also opens a Pandora’s Box. Most pedophilia by gay adults would be made legal if gay married people were able to adopt children of their own sex. With the legalization of gay marriage, how can married gay people be stopped from adopting children for that purpose? And for what other purpose would they be adopting children of their own sex?

Pity the children they might adopt. More importantly, let us protect them from a society gone lunatic with satisfying every lunatic’s demands.

I’m not sure I’ve read anything more downright less informed in my life. Most child molesters are straight and molest children that are their own or related to them. Pity the children a gay couple may adopt. Pity the child who has an Uncle that rapes her and a mother that won’t believe her as that scenario is much, much, much more likely.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think most psychologists consider pedophilia and homosexuality to be two separate conditions. In other words, being attracted to people of the same sex does not increase the likelihood that one is attracted to children of the same sex. That’s a whole nother thing.

I honestly think that the vast majority of same-sex couples who adopt do so for the same reasons that childless heterosexual couples have for adopting: they want the joy of raising children but are unable to have their own. I also think same-sex couples are misguided, as the Church teaches, but I don’t think pedophilia enters into it

.

Pedophilia and homosexuality are different. They maybe different, but they are consider a grave sin. The Church warns that society be changed.

Consider the remarks made by the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith:

Lifestyles and the underlying presuppositions these express not only externally shape the life of society, but also tend to modify the younger generation’s perception and evaluation of forms of behaviour. Legal recognition of homosexual unions would obscure certain basic moral values and cause a devaluation of the institution of marriage

Don’t be surprise when we start seeing more legalization of immoral behavior in the ages to come.

 

[jmcrae]

The difference is that the Catholic church seems to be the only church that states that the Holy Spirit guides them so they cannot err.

I’m having trouble understanding why anyone would want to follow an organization that claims not to really know anything for certain.

I can be confused and lost about things at home in my bed on Sunday mornings; I don’t need a Church, for that.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Lutheran

*I’m not sure I’ve read anything more downright less informed in my life. Most child molesters are straight and molest children that are their own or related to them. Pity the children a gay couple may adopt. Pity the child who has an Uncle that rapes her and a mother that won’t believe her as that scenario is much, much, much more likely. *

If you were a child, would you like to be adopted by gay married parents? If you were giving your child up for adoption, would you like to see it adopted by gay parents?

It’s always about the rights of those who are off kilter, isn’t it? Never about the rights of their victims.

It’s always about the right of mothers to kill their children, never about the right of children to be born.

Of course there are pedophiles among straight people. But I’d much rather see a child’s chances with straight parents than with gay.

Most child molesters are straight and molest children that are their own or related to them.

By the way, what statistics do you have? And what statistics do you have that married gay parents are less likely to adopt a child of same sex for immoral purposes?

 

[jmcrae]

I think most psychologists consider pedophilia and homosexuality to be two separate conditions. In other words, being attracted to people of the same sex does not increase the likelihood that one is attracted to children of the same sex. That’s a whole nother thing.

I think this is probably true. Most of the homosexuals that I know tend to be afraid of children, and don’t really know how to behave around children - they certainly are not attracted to them.

I honestly think that the vast majority of same-sex couples who adopt do so for the same reasons that childless heterosexual couples have for adopting: they want the joy of raising children but are unable to have their own. I also think same-sex couples are misguided, as the Church teaches, but I don’t think pedophilia enters into it.

I consider it a bad idea for actively practicing homosexuals to adopt children because culturally, the homosexual lifestyle isn’t something that would be mentally healthy for children to be exposed to at home, or anywhere else.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

jmcrea

*I think this is probably true. Most of the homosexuals that I know tend to be afraid of children, and don’t really know how to behave around children - they certainly are not attracted to them. *

This is certainly not true for all those pedophile priests. God knows how many others throughout the rest of the population.

I consider it a bad idea for actively practicing homosexuals to adopt children because culturally, the homosexual lifestyle isn’t something that would be mentally healthy for children to be exposed to at home, or anywhere else.

 

[PeterMuz]

For this to happen, the reason or purpose for marriage would have to change. Marriage is for unity AND procreation. Marriage and all Sacraments are a physical manifestation of a spiritual reality.

If the church is going to successfully fight against gay marriage, this is going to have to change. It’s a bad argument. There are plenty of infertile people that the church allows to marry, so procreation is not necessary for marriage. A better position is to focus on the unnaturalness of the couple itself. If coitus is the requirement for marriage, rather than procreation, then homosexuals couldn’t marry but infertile heterosexuals could.

I figured this would come up. If a couple knows that either the man or the woman are infertile they have to get special permission to get married. The argument does not need to change. The family models the Trinity. The Trinity will not change. The fact that the love between a man and wife shows the spiritual reality of the Trinity will not change. So why would the argument?

This is not the only reason that gay marriage should not be accepted. But it is a valid argument.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

PetrMuz

*This is not the only reason that gay marriage should not be accepted. But it is a valid argument. *

And so is the argument that never in the history of the world has an advanced civilization promoted marriage between people of the same sex. We are more barbaric in that respect at least than the ancient Greeks and Romans.

 

[Nec5]

Young people becoming more and more “open”? Open to Lies? Open to enslavement to sin? Human Rights? The right to do evil? No one has the right to do evil but God does permit it by free will.

Christ does not change His teaching. He is Truth. Truth does not change ever or it was never Truth, it was Lies. Lies are not Truth. If the secular world “legalizes” so-called “homosexual marriage”, the Catholic Church will reject it, same for abortion. The Pope cannot and will not change it. No one can – it isn’t a matter of “acceptance” or “giving in” or whining or complaining enough to change it. If a society, collectively accepts Lies, they do so at their own peril.

To quote Archbishop Fulton Sheen: “The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it.”

“No one knows”? Truth is revealed, it is not determined by public opinion, nor do we have to understand it. Truth has been revealed – some accept it, some reject it, some don’t know about it yet.

My response was analytic in nature. This country and most, if not all, Christians will accept gay marriage just as they have accepted abortion, fornication, adultery, divorce, single parent households, living together, stem cells, and every other monstrous twisting of the truth.

The Church remains impotent as it has for decades now. I hear no strong religious voice arguing with fire on the news against these sins. Instead, we get some short statement or speech that few people ever see. I hear about a return to the Latin Mass. I hear about a retranslation of the liturgy. Neither will turn people from sin. It’s more than depressing and reminds me of the old saying about “Stomping the **** ants while the elephants run by”. People go to Mass, eat the bread and drink the wine, and then they do whatever they wish during the week. Where is the outrage or righteous indignation?

This is the new reality. No, it’s not a good thing, but it will not change as long as people refuse to recognize evil and fight it tooth and nail. I don’t see that happening anytime soon, so gay marriage will become another part of our oh-so-tolerant cultural tapestry.

 

[stcalixtus]

Here’s another way for the OP to look at the issue:

The Church views masturbation in much the same way that she views homosexual acts. Both are “gravely disordered.” Now, masturbation has been widely accepted by non-Catholics as normal for a lot longer than same-sex unions have been accepted by society. But the Church has never wavered in its position on the sinfulness of masturbation. Why would we expect anything different on the subject of homosexual acts?

Also, regarding both masturbation and homosexual acts, the Church does not define anyone by those acts. She does not consider someone “a homosexual” anymore than she would consider someone who is drawn to masturbation “a masturbator.” We are all humans and immortal souls, with our own crosses to bear. For some it’s attraction to people of the same sex, for others it’s pornography, for others it’s what-have-you. No one has the “right” to have the Church view his sins as not sins. What you should do (if you’re Catholic) is repent, confess, and sin no more. well said! I admire your logic

.

 

[Mannyfit75]

My response was analytic in nature. This country and most, if not all, Christians will accept gay marriage just as they have accepted abortion, fornication, adultery, divorce, single parent households, living together, stem cells, and every other monstrous twisting of the truth.

The Catholic Church will never accept homosexual marriage, the same way, the Catholic Church opposes the use of contraception (birth control). The teachings of the Church on faith and morals is not dictated by popular opinion polls. It never has been. It will the same with this openess of “Gay Marriages.” The Church will always be oppose to it.

For Christians to accept gay marriages is to acknowledge that homosexual behavior is not sinful. The Bible and Sacred Traditions for 2,000 yrs have condemned it and this will never changed.

The Church remains impotent as it has for decades now. I hear no strong religious voice arguing with fire on the news against these sins. Instead, we get some short statement or speech that few people ever see. I hear about a return to the Latin Mass. I hear about a retranslation of the liturgy. Neither will turn people from sin. It’s more than depressing and reminds me of the old saying about “Stomping the **** ants while the elephants run by”. People go to Mass, eat the bread and drink the wine, and then they do whatever they wish during the week. Where is the outrage or righteous indignation?

Catholics are expected to avoid committed moral sin. If they commit mortal sin, they must confess before receiving Holy Communion. To received the Body and Blood of the Lord is sacrilege. St. Paul warns about this. Woe to that Catholic who receives the Jesus unworthily. God knows his heart and we can only hope, any Catholic who goes up to received Communion, do so with a pure heart and void of any mortal sin.

Second, at Mass it is NO longer ordinary bread and wine. The bread after the consecration is literally the Body of Christ and the wine, the Blood of Christ. Though, the appearance remains the same. It is the same Jesus who died on the Cross and rose from the dead and is now sits at the Right Hand of the Father.

The outrage is the acceptance of homosexual marriage because the CC have always condemned it as a immoral evil or sin.

This is the new reality. No, it’s not a good thing, but it will not change as long as people refuse to recognize evil and fight it tooth and nail. I don’t see that happening anytime soon, so gay marriage will become another part of our oh-so-tolerant cultural tapestry.

When gay marriage becomes a norm, only the Catholic Church will remain oppose to it.

 

[stcalixtus]

Sure thing :aok:

I think extremism begets extremism. The rules of the Church are so strict that people who can’t live up to them swing to the opposite extreme of hedonism. I think a little tolerance for nonprocreative sex among married heterosexuals will go a long way. Consider it this way: Imagine a married couple uses ABC (yes, I know it’s considered a sin), but later they change their minds and decide to have children. Imagine a couple is having premarital sex (I know, also a sin), but later they change their minds and decide to get married. These people can change their minds and improve their moral behavior. Thus, what they do should not be in the same category as homosexual couples. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with those heterosexuals being together as a couple; there is something intrinsically wrong with the homosexual couple, something which can never change. The heterosexual couple can always improve morally and still be a couple. The homosexuals cannot improve morally and still be a couple. Perhaps if ABC or premarital sex in a committed heterosexual couple were regarded as a venial sin, instead of a mortal sin, then heterosexuals would not be so quick to see themselves in the same boat as the gays. But when the Church says ABC or premarital sex in a heterosexual couple is equally sinful as gay sex, then those heterosexuals are being *put( in the exact same boat as the gays and naturally they are going to cooperate with them.

my personal opinion, fornication is as sinful as gay sex.My rationale as explained to my wifes Bay area gay friend was explained as such, when he first met me he assumed I hated gays because I am Catholic and that we are hypocrites for being more accepting of fornication and other sins.So I clarified my position and assured him we couild be friends however I cannot accept his relationship with his “husband”, we get along fine now, is he typical of gay people? I think so, gay sex has the “ick” factor asociated with it and it is hard to put aside…I must do so as I do feel heterosexuals shacking up together is counterproductive to the ideal of holy matrimony, both gay and straights that sin in regards to sex are on par in my opinion.We further the gay rights cause by being hypocrites? in general we should all strive to follow the catechism.

 

[stcalixtus]

I’m having trouble understanding why anyone would want to follow an organization that claims not to really know anything for certain.

I can be confused and lost about things at home in my bed on Sunday mornings; I don’t need a Church, for that.

bizarre post:shrug: so you are not a practicing Catholic?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Nec5

*The Church remains impotent as it has for decades now. I hear no strong religious voice arguing with fire on the news against these sins. *

I see what you see and fear what you fear.

Where is the great Catholic voice that is carried across the land? Instead, we have good preachers on EWTN preaching to the choir. Those outside the Church never hear them. We used to have a G.K. Chesterton or a Bishop Fulton Sheen widely read or heard by non-Catholics. Now we have mostly wimpish abstract statements issued by the bishops and read by very few Catholics, but not by others.

The Church has given up the militant approach and now lies supine before the barbarians. But this has happened before in history. The Church survived. The Church sometimes must be the anvil upon which the hammer will strike, but eventually spend its force. The anvil never breaks, but the hammer does … God willing.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I’m having trouble understanding why anyone would want to follow an organization that claims not to really know anything for certain.

I can be confused and lost about things at home in my bed on Sunday mornings; I don’t need a Church, for that.

I hope you aren’t serious that you don’t need the Church.

 

[Hypatia]

do you support “gay rights”

absolutely; I don’t think I have ever made any secret of that. As you said, all someone has to do is browse my numerous posts on the topic to see where I stand.

in the USA we do not execute homosexuals as they do in the ln brutal country of Iran. I pray for gay people but do not accept the sin of an active gay lifestyle.God help all of the oppressed in various Muslim countries where basic human rights are absent.

And I can agree with a good bit of that. In Muslim-majority countries where homosexuality is illegal (e.g., parts of Arabia and, as you mention, Iran), the punishments handed down are often brutal, inhumane and lethal, comparable to the punishments handed out for zina generally. This is one of just many issues, with respect to basic human dignity, that would like to see addressed in Iran and elsewhere.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Nec5

*The Church remains impotent as it has for decades now. I hear no strong religious voice arguing with fire on the news against these sins. *

I see what you see and fear what you fear.

Where is the great Catholic voice that is carried across the land? Instead, we have good preachers on EWTN preaching to the choir. Those outside the Church never hear them. We used to have a G.K. Chesterton or a Bishop Fulton Sheen widely read or heard by non-Catholics. Now we have mostly wimpish abstract statements issued by the bishops and read by very few Catholics, but not by others.

The Church has given up the militant approach and now lies supine before the barbarians. But this has happened before in history. The Church survived. The Church sometimes must be the anvil upon which the hammer will strike, but eventually spend its force. The anvil never breaks, but the hammer does … God willing.

In addition to that, the Church will remain with us and affirm the teachings of God concerning faith and morals until the Son of Man comes to claim his Bride, which is the Church itself.

 

[Mannyfit75]

absolutely; I don’t think I have ever made any secret of that. As you said, all someone has to do is browse my numerous posts on the topic to see where I stand.

And I can agree with a good bit of that. In Muslim-majority countries where homosexuality is illegal (e.g., parts of Arabia and, as you mention, Iran), the punishments handed down are often brutal, inhumane and lethal, comparable to the punishments handed out for zina generally. This is one of just many issues, with respect to basic human dignity, that would like to see addressed in Iran and elsewhere.

That reminded me of some news I read that took place in Dec 09. Uganda was planning to pass a legistration that would “criminalized” homosexuals. The Vatican issued a statement and denounced any violence against homosexuals. For a while, the GLBT community praised the Vatican for it.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

That reminded me of some news I read that took place in Dec 09. Uganda was planning to pass a legistration that would “criminalized” homosexuals. The Vatican issued a statement and denounced any violence against homosexuals. For a while, the GLBT community praised the Vatican for it.

 

[PAboy57]

Love the sinner but hate the sin. I feel for these people but it goes against the natural order. A homosexual society would cease to exist in a short period of time. We must be open to life to conform to natural law and God’s law. As Fr. Corapi says “they are called to celibacy just like him”