Do you think the Catholic Church will become stronger because of the present priestly scandals?

[NguyenKimPhat]

Do you believe that the Catholic Church will become stronger in the future because of the present priest-sex-abuse scandals? Why or Why Not? Do you have any personal experiences to share?

 

[Lutheranteach]

Do you believe that the Catholic Church will become stronger in the future because of the present priest-sex-abuse scandals? Why or Why Not? Do you have any personal experiences to share?

I think it will be stronger in the future as there will be greater awareness and greater oversight, but it will take, literally, a generation for all the trust that was lost to be fully regained and that is if, and only if, there is not another similar scandal.

 

[Alegare21]

I think that the process of reviewing a seminarian will be improved quite a bit. But the worldview of the Church will be very poor (worse than it already is).

 

[mfj]

Can i ask, stronger in what way or do you mean in any way?
If you mean the faithful, I’d answer both. Some have grown and some have run.
I’m not sure the rest of the world does not just see it as an american thing?

 

[MatthewBerkeley]

It’s not just an American thing. I’m from Ireland and we’re still reeling from the horrors of two reports - one into abuses in institutional primary schools run by religious orders and another into abuses by diocesan priests in Dublin.
It has affected the Church to the extent that those who dislike the Church now have more fodder for their cannon and other people who call themselves Catholic but haven’t any strong affinity for the Church will be made uncomfortable and may fall away.
I’m quite involved in the youth faith movement in Ireland, and among those who seek the Truth with charity, it has not affected their love of the Church - in fact it has strengthened their desire to defend it.
And in defending it, we are going to have to get used to people using this against the Church, along with the evils of the Inquisition, the Crusades and any other instance of Catholicism being used as a banner for evil.

God bless

 

[karoleck]

Yes and no!! The Catholic Church is already strong as it is founded by Christ!!! If you are addressing the question ,will the priests of The Catholic Church become hollier in the long run–yes! for as a passage in scripture says “where sin abounds Grace abounds even in greater quantity” (my translation)

The priesthood will become purified by suffering–since this is The Year of The Priesthood -the focal point is Christ The Eternal High Priest and Victim;He is the pure and spotless High Priest.Then in the sharing of this priesthood by it’s ordained Ministers,the Church used the example of the good priest St.John Mary Vianney.Pope Benedict speaks of Christ The Good Shepherd seeking out the lost sheep;the call to become a sheperd of souls and not hirelings, is what the Priesthood is all about.“Go out to all the nations,preach tho Gospel.He who believes and is baptized will be saved,he who does not believe will be condemned”

All true Ministerial Priests who share in the One Priesthood of Christ the Priest are mortified with sadness by the actions of a few of their members.They too offer this sorrow in union with the Eternal Victim in their daily lives.This is true especially when they unite this, in the Sacrifice of their daily Mass.

In the end this suffering,in union of lay people who also share the"common"or royal priesthood of Christs’ faithful will be a “spring time” of renewal for Priests.In a sense the holliness of our clergy will depend on the prayers of each member which should keep Priests constantly before The Throne of God.

Lord,santify your priests and sacred ministers.Keep pure and holy their hearts,let Your Holy Love surround them and shield them from the worlds’corruption.Amen

.Mother of The Eternal Priest and Victim,keep all your priests close to your Pure and Immaculate Heart.Amen

 

[JReducation]

The question is interesting, because of the events around us. While the Church has had to deal with sin that has rocked the world, it is also interesting to see the increase in vocations to the priesthood, male religious life, and female religious life.

Since the scandals errupted, in my own Franciscan family, we have had a vocation boom, just in the USA alone. So much so, that the Franciscan religious life for men has subdivided again. It had not done this since the Protestant Reformation The subdivision is not a result of dissent, but a result of a desire to live the religious life more closely to the founder’s vision and mission.

Let’s just look at the most recent list.

You have the older Franciscan obediences of men:

• Friars Minor (Franciscans)
• Friars Minor Capuchin
• Friars Minor Conventual
• Third Order Regular of Penance (TOR not SFO)

Suddently you have the scandals and the Holy Spirit pulls out his bag the following reforms:

• Franciscans of the Immaculate
• Franciscans of the Renewal
• Franciscan Brothers of Peace
• Franciscan Brothers of the Eucharist
• Franciscans of the Primitive Observance
• Capuchin Franciscans of the Ancient Observance
• Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word
• Franciscan Brothers of Life
• Little Brothers of St. Francis

From four branches of male religious we suddenly jump to 13 branches of male religious and this is just among Franciscans alone. Each of these branches is prospering and growing.

Then we have the nuns. The Poor Clare nuns made a leap from 14,000 in 2005 to 20,000 in 2009.

Again, this is just the Franciscan family. We’re up to 1.7 million around the world, between men and women.

The Dominicans have done a lot of growing of their own, so have the Jesuits, the LC too. The Missionaries of Charity have subdivided again. They are now five religious societies of men and women, two for women and three for men.

Then you have the birth of other new communities that are not part of the older orders, such as the Missionaries of the Poor out of Kingston Jamaica.

There are diocesan seminaries that are full with waiting lists: Boston, Miami, New York, Mt. St. Mary

For a while it looked like religious brothers had seen their day. Suddenly there are all of these new communities of religious brothers being born. Christ is calling these men, not to be priests and deacons, but to be consecrated men as he did in the early history of the Church and again during the Middle Ages. This is fascinating, because in both periods of history, the Church was in trouble, as it is today. And it suddently, there arise these men who are called to consecrate themselves to a life of obedience, without property and in chastity. What is more fascinating is that all of these new communities, as well as the older ones that are being renewed by the Holy Spirit have the strongest convictions about obedience to the Church

We know that women Dominicans are on the rise again. That’s an older religious family, a few years older than Franciscans, but they are off and running again.

I believe that we have to give more credit to the John Paul II generation. They are more resilient than we thought. They understand that the Church is a hospital, not Heaven. The presence of sin and scandal does not frighten them away.

I think, just my opinion, that there is a sector out there that is very hurt right now; but as the hurt heals, they too will come to see this as part of a cycle. The world and the Church go through cycles of great sin and crises. As we go through these cycles they rattle us. It’s like turbulence. We feel that we’re going to fall out of the sky; but then comes the calm. However, in the midst of the catastrophe you suddenly see the rescue squad come out. I believe that these men and women who are responding to the call to religious life or to the priesthood and diaconate are the rescue squad.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[karoleck]

That is wonderfull news,Bro.JR.OSF **/B,the religious life is being slowly revitalised,it belongs to the heart of the Church.
I have just read a couple of pages about Archbishop Timothy Michael Dolan of the New York Archdiocese in the Messanger of St.Anthony.He, as it were was thrust into this whole problem of sexual misconduct,firstly in St.Louis as an auxilary,then Archbishop of Milwaukee(replacing Weakland-weak by name and nature)-there he defended priestly celibacy, where 160 priests asked for optional celibacy.He wrote amongst other things "I enthusiastically and confidently embrace my own celibate commitment and believe it a providential blessing for priests and for the Church"He was required to weigh in on the Notre Dame University and the question was it untrue to its Catholic nature by inviting Barack Obama–he told the media that “it made a big mistake” In his humility his approach to the new appointment and avoiding a swell head was “The attention is about Jesus and the Church,not about me.”
The point I am making that God does raise up strong and loyal leaders,there are other wonderful Bishops,Priests and Sisters(Bl.Mother Teresa of Culcutta’s new Order,Dominican Sisters-Mary Mother of The Eucharist that could be named.How many wonderful lay secular institutes are spouting every where,I personally have seen a quick expansion of Communita (sons and daughters of God),Opus Dei just to name a few(the latter being helped by Dan Browne’s attack on them!!) Wonderful converts such as Scott Hahn and so many we see on The Coming Home Program by Markus Grodi (another outstanding perrson–etc,etc.) This quiet advance has been going on despite “the smoke of satan”! It is not a numbers’ game ,only holiness wins the prize of authentic renewal -"a springtime in the Church"as Pope John Paul (the great) was fond of saying.

I conclude with a quotion taken from Adoration,Reparation,Spiritual Motherhood for Priests published by the Congregation for the Clergy ( worth a google search-available as a download for free)

Quotation by Vernerable Louise Margaret Claret De La Touche(1868-1915) an apostle for the renewal of the priesthood.

“He(Jesus) said to me:Nineteen centuries ago,twelve men changed the world;they were not merely men,but they were priests.Now once more twelve priests could change the world------but they must be holy”

Jesus,Mary ,I love you,save souls.**

 

[Angels_Heart]

No if anything it will be weaker and especially parents will be wary ,nobody wants to be think that rc is a haven for absusers ,cause so many have alleged .For the rest so many others will leave and never come back .I have my reservations why does it seem it is only the RC ?

 

[Cowfold]

I would agree with the previous post particularly with respect to the scandals in the Irish Republic which has shaken the faith to the core. Unfortunately, we are dealing with the tip of the iceberg and there will be more to follow. There has been been an increase in the novitiate of several of the Religious Communities in this area but I am not sure whether it is due to the scandals. As I have said before the increase in Charterhouse intake is due to the publicity the Order is receiving via the movie ‘Into great Silence’ and the various books.
However, many are called but few…

 

[anode]

No if anything it will be weaker and especially parents will be wary ,nobody wants to be think that rc is a haven for absusers ,cause so many have alleged .For the rest so many others will leave and never come back .I have my reservations why does it seem it is only the RC ?

Well, to be fair, I don’t think that it is ‘only’ the RC. But, especially in the past, with large religious orders accepting just about anyone, and especially in Ireland, with brothers, it seems, supervising large groups of unprotected boys, the situation was bound to happen. These orders would attract pedophiles. There are homosexuals (as distinct from pedophiles) in the RCC, also the Anglican communion, but the Anglican Communion, especially, encourages* marriage* and doesn’t have these large institutions which attract and shelter deviants. Anglican men’s religious orders are small and they don’t run orphanages. Protestants don’t have celibate religious life, by and large, and it’s expected that pastors will marry–though they (and Anglicans) sometimes have affairs with their parishioners! Jews are* all *expected to marry, and rabbis are so busy with their congregations that they scarcely have time for their families!

 

[anode]

(nothing to add)

 

[JReducation]

No if anything it will be weaker and especially parents will be wary ,nobody wants to be think that rc is a haven for absusers ,cause so many have alleged .For the rest so many others will leave and never come back .I have my reservations why does it seem it is only the RC ?

I’m going to disagree here. Look at the list of new Franciscan communities that have been carved out of the larger Franciscan family or appended to the family tree. The majority of these communities have a mean age of 30. Our own Franciscan Brothers of Life are getting at least two inquiries per wee and most of them are men under 30. In fact, the number of men aspiring to become religious brothers, not priests, is on the rise in our Franciscan family. In fairness, I have to add that we do not promote priestly vocations. We have priests, but that is not the thrust of Franciscan life nor is priestly ministry central to Franciscan life. We do well with a few priests to serve the sacramental needs of the friars and leave the sacramental needs of the laity to diocesan priest and other clerical communities.

That being said, we’re not the ony religious family that is receiving many candidates. The Benedictines are seeing a rise in their numbers too, as are the Jesuits and the Dominicans.

There are many new vocations to the more traditional congregations of women and to the enclose orders of women too.

I agree with Mother Agnes, Superior General of the Sisters of Life in NY. We are not going to see the large numbers that we saw between 1900 and 1950. But we are seeing quality.

As I have often posted, one of the problems that dessimated communities of men was not the scandals, but the fact that these religious communities had been forced to do the work of diocesan priests. They were forced to take on parish ministry, which is not ordinarilly the vocation of a religious congregation or a religioius order. That had a greater negative impact on the vocations of the men, than did the scandals. Men who enter religious life want to live religious life, not be diocesan priests.

On the other hand, men who want to be diocesan priests do not want to be religious. Otherwise, they would have entered a religious order or congregation. Many diocesan seminaries prior to Vatican II ran like monasteries. This did not prepare the diocesan seminarian to live as a secular man after ordination. They felt abandoned and alone when they were assigned. Often they were not well prepared to live independently. They had been formed in seminaries that mimicked the monastic life. Many of these priests left. Their departure coincided with Vatican II, which demanded that secular priests be truly secular and that religious men and women return to the charism of their founders.

This threw people for a loop. Religious had been living in parishes, instead of religious houses and secular clergy had been formed in monastic environments, rather than secular clerical enviornments. It was almost as if they had traded places. When Vatican II called each group back to their proper place, no one knew which way to turn.

The sex abuse scandals were not a product of the formation. They were the product of poor screening and poor management. That being said, one has to be reasonable too. There is no fool-proof way of filtering out a pedophile. You can administer all the psychological tests that you want, but they are not infallible. All they can state is that at the time of the testing the person does not present with any psychological difficulties. As we all know, pedophiles are not easily identifiable. They can be your spouse, neighbor, teacher, Boy Scout Leader and so forth. The solution is closer supervision and quick response when there is a problem. We are never going to rid the Church of sin or society of mental health problems. The issue is to deal with them quickly and appropriately.

Finally, in my work with formation, I don’t see parents being wary of their sons and daughters entering religious life because of the sex-abuse scandals. I have run into parents who have career concerns for their children and parents who have concerns that their child may be “throwing away” his or her life as a cleric or a religious man or woman. This is more common that fear of sex abuse.

I also see lay movements, secular orders, secular institutes and societies of apostolic life growing. Then there are the unsung lay heroes of the faith. There are so many men and women in the community who are committed to apostolic work that it’s impressive. These include religious education, pro-life, youth ministry, outreach programs and other apostolates proper to the laity.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[glenconnor]

I have faith in the future of the Church because of the priests that I am fortunate enough to have in my Diocese, the Diocese of Dallas. I have been to six different churches so far besides my home parish and in every case I have found wonderful priests who are warm and well beloved of their congregation, ready to assist and very reverent. This gives me much hope. With the new seminarians being called and on their way to becoming priests I also have hope because every one I have talked to is more than aware of both the blessing and the sacrifice inherent in religious life.

If you have a wonderful priest whom you can count on, make sure they know how much you appreciate them.

 

[JReducation]

I’m going to agree with Glen. There are many faithful priests and others out there too. We have many faithful priests, deacons, brothers and sisters. But we should not forget the thousands of faithful lay people who give of their time and talent to the Church in parishes and other services. I think that all of us are hurt by the effects of sin. To me, these thousands of lay people who just keep going, inspite of the hurt, are an example and a sign of hope. I see lay people take time from their busy days and families to serve, without complaining about being too tired or too upset and hurt. I’m sure they are tired, upset and hurt. They’re human. But they just stay in there.

The other thought that comes to my mind is the idea of cycles. I think the world, not just the Church, goes through cycles of crises. After each one, we come out better than we were before. In all of these cycles, God is still there. He doesn’t go away. Somehow, through his grace, we get up and keep moving again.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[mfj]

Posted by Br JR
" I think the world, not just the Church, goes through cycles of crises."

See Mother I make all things new!

Peter went through cycles—like a public washing machine.