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glencor63
Guest
If yes, on what issue or issues would be the basis of a schism?
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Do you think the Catholic Church will ever schism? Why or why not?
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
What do you mean?
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glencor63
Guest
Just what I said. Do you think the Roman Catholic Church will ever schism? Why or why not? If yes, what do you think would cause the schism?
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snarflemike
Guest
It does feel that way to me these days.
EDIT: because a great many clerics, theologians, academics and others in positions of power will continue to succumb to the secular world and attempt to turn the Church into a copy of the Anglican church.
EDIT: because a great many clerics, theologians, academics and others in positions of power will continue to succumb to the secular world and attempt to turn the Church into a copy of the Anglican church.
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Wesrock
Guest
There was the schism with the Assyrian Church of the East, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Orthodox already, not to mention what happened in the sixteenth century with Protestants. Plus other things like the Old Catholics. So it’s not unthinkable.
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MiserereMeiDei
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I’ll clarify if I can. There are the schisms by the Orthodox, by the protestants, SSPV and others. Do you just mean another group will schism? If so, I’d say undoubtedly. I just find the wording odd.
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glencor63
Guest
A formal schism whereby certain Bishop, priests, and laity leave to form a separate church, similar to how Anglicanism has divided.
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MiserereMeiDei
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That’s exactly what the Orthodox and protestants did. It will absolutely happen again.
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normdplume
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It makes me wonder how Jesus will react when he sees how fragmented his church has become.
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
The Church is one. Those others aren’t the Church.
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otjm
Guest
According to Cardinal Mueller, the Church is already in de facto schism and has been since the ordination of the 4 Cardinals some decades ago. The SSPX has not been found in schism de jure; and having watched the matter for a long time, I suspect the driving force for the reconciliation has been along the lines that a de jure finding would make an already difficult situation nearly impossible.
As to what will happen, there comes a point where the SSPX will be faced with facing the possibility of ordaining more bishops. At that point it will be up to Rome as to how to proceed. Pope Francis is, if anything, a pastoral Pope, something that is reflected in his prior history of concern for the laity. He has made repeated comments about the need for all ordained to be among the sheep. How he would react is anyone’s guess, and that guess can go either direction; and if the matter does not come to a head, it will certainly depend on who is next elected Pope.
I certainly do not know the inner tensions within the SSPX. There has been a long history of “we are close to reconciling” for so long that it appears to be “different day, same tune”, and they have their own history of break-offs. Stories come up fairly regularly of SSPX chapels in different areas on a spectrum from some cooperation with the local diocese to isolation from them, so it is not as if the SSPX are a monolith all marching to the same drummer. Or perhaps, some seem to be more likely to reconcile; others seem to be unlikely to budge.
And while much has been said indicating to some that Pope Francis is far more open to reconciliation, others look at the matter and see him concerned far more about the laity who follow the SSPX than the members themselves, a way of saying that his move was not to move the bar with the SSPX themselves but rather to administer to the laity caught up in the matter.
To put it in the vernacular, I don’t have a dog in the fight. I simply watch; it has been 31 years since the ordination of the four bishops And for all of the discussions, we are in the same position.
As to what will happen, there comes a point where the SSPX will be faced with facing the possibility of ordaining more bishops. At that point it will be up to Rome as to how to proceed. Pope Francis is, if anything, a pastoral Pope, something that is reflected in his prior history of concern for the laity. He has made repeated comments about the need for all ordained to be among the sheep. How he would react is anyone’s guess, and that guess can go either direction; and if the matter does not come to a head, it will certainly depend on who is next elected Pope.
I certainly do not know the inner tensions within the SSPX. There has been a long history of “we are close to reconciling” for so long that it appears to be “different day, same tune”, and they have their own history of break-offs. Stories come up fairly regularly of SSPX chapels in different areas on a spectrum from some cooperation with the local diocese to isolation from them, so it is not as if the SSPX are a monolith all marching to the same drummer. Or perhaps, some seem to be more likely to reconcile; others seem to be unlikely to budge.
And while much has been said indicating to some that Pope Francis is far more open to reconciliation, others look at the matter and see him concerned far more about the laity who follow the SSPX than the members themselves, a way of saying that his move was not to move the bar with the SSPX themselves but rather to administer to the laity caught up in the matter.
To put it in the vernacular, I don’t have a dog in the fight. I simply watch; it has been 31 years since the ordination of the four bishops And for all of the discussions, we are in the same position.
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JimG
Guest
I haven’t give the matter much thought, but I think you are right, if the SSPX tries to ordain more bishops without papal approval, it will make the risk of schism even greater.
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tonyh12
Guest
The one holy catholic and apostolic church has groups who schism from it but the one holy and apostolic church herself remains intact fulfilling scripture that the gates of hades will not prevail, it can’t schism ie lose some truth it will always have the fullness of truth this is because the Holy Spirit is in charge and in part to our magesterium.
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RandomGuy
Guest
What if the Pope OK’s the ordination of women? That would certainly result in schism…and which party would be right?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
SSPV is already in schism, and has been for some time. I don’t actually think SSPX ever will. Some of the dissident Catholic groups, including some religious orders, are effectively in schism right now, but the members are so old, I don’t think those organizations will do much more than turn into dissident foundations with the money received long ago from the faithful. Some already have.
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dochawk
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At least with regard to the Orthodox, you are now directly contradicting the teaching of the RCC . . .The Church is one. Those others aren’t the Church.
What if bats start flying around the altar singing satanic hymns in three part harmony, accompanied by vampires on harps?What if the Pope OK’s the ordination of women?
Ridiculous as it is, it’s more likely of the two . . .
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MiserereMeiDei
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Anyone who is not in communion with Rome isn’t part of the church. Sorry. There’s is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
Should that happen he will have made a heretical statement proving that he wasn’t the pope when he said it.
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
Agreed. [Inserting extra words here so I can post my one word reply.]Ridiculous as it is, it’s more likely of the two . . .
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dochawk
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Rome is quite clear that the Orthodox are not “outside” in that context, contrary to the earlier posts in this thread.Anyone who is not in communion with Rome isn’t part of the church. Sorry. There’s is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
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