Do you think this is a mortal sin?

[howareyou1]

Good morning.
First of all, Merry Christmas to all of you.

So, this is my dilemma… The other day i was watching on TV a program, it was aired at 2 pm or something like that… So, i assume it was a family program. The program was supposed to be humorous … One of the jokes was about cheating and premarital sex. I don’t know if this is relevant, but the joke lasted around 3 minutes. Nobody was naked or anything like that…
The other day the Homily was about having custody of the eyes, the father was talking about it, because we were celebrating the feast of St Lucy. Well, in my case I didn’t have the ability to take custody of my ears.

Do you think i committed a mortal sin?

Thank you.

 

[twoangels]

Good morning.
First of all, Merry Christmas to all of you.

So, this is my dilemma… The other day i was watching on TV a program, it was aired at 2 pm or something like that… So, i assume it was a family program. The program was supposed to be humorous … One of the jokes was about cheating and premarital sex. I don’t know if this is relevant, but the joke lasted around 3 minutes. Nobody was naked or anything like that…
The other day the Homily was about having custody of the eyes, the father was talking about it, because we were celebrating the feast of St Lucy. Well, in my case I didn’t have the ability to take custody of my ears.

Do you think i committed a mortal sin?

Thank you.

Having custody of your eyes is about avoiding near occassions of sin. If the program tempted you to sins of impurity (like masturbation), than the masturbation would be a grave sin and potentially mortal (habitual masturbation is not a mortal sin so long as the individual is trying to overcome the habit. The habitual nature of it reduces the individual’s freedom to choose. Sin is always an abuse of our freedom. As such, a habitual masturbator whose seeking regular confession and striving to overcome the habit, is usually consulted by their priests to go up to communion for the grace to overcome the sin. However, it is best to seek the counsel of a priest if it seems such a sin is happening so frequently that you’re almost never receiving communion. Seeking counsel from the priest should happen first as he adds an objective eye to your situation).

If it tempted you, but you refrained, than you choose not to sin but probably just acted imprudently. Moreover, in the quest toward holiness, it is good to free ourselves from programs that demean sex. Its not all about sin. Its also about pursuing virtue.

 

[Kathrin]

habitual masturbation is not a mortal sin so long as the individual is trying to overcome the habit. The habitual nature of it reduces the individual’s freedom to choose.

I know this is not the topic here, but I must ask you, do you mean if somebody really CANNOT resist, and don’t do it out of their free will? Because habitual might also mean that the person just does it out of habit and does it again and again, which I would say does not diminish the gravity of the sin?!

 

[chimo]

Good morning.
First of all, Merry Christmas to all of you.

So, this is my dilemma… The other day i was watching on TV a program, it was aired at 2 pm or something like that… So, i assume it was a family program. The program was supposed to be humorous … One of the jokes was about cheating and premarital sex. I don’t know if this is relevant, but the joke lasted around 3 minutes. Nobody was naked or anything like that…
The other day the Homily was about having custody of the eyes, the father was talking about it, because we were celebrating the feast of St Lucy. Well, in my case I didn’t have the ability to take custody of my ears.

Do you think i committed a mortal sin?

Thank you.

I am an Orthodox Christian and I sense you are wondering if what you did can be classified mortal. The Eastern Church as I discovered living with her tends not to be too heavy towards sin as do our Western brethren. The differences between East and West can be easily seen in their views and judgement on sin especially the venial ones. I sense many Roman Catholics who commit venial sins will consider them as mortal putting too much judgement towards it and thus creating too much unneccessary concerns. The Eastern Church while accepting certain sins as mortal such as murder, adultery and so on do not often see for instance what you did as any close to committing mortal sin. My observations of the two great Churches has placed me to see the West with a more emphasis on Justice and the East with more emphasis on Mercy. Justice and Mercy are God’s two attributes. His attribute of Justice is more pronounced in the West while His attribute of Mercy is more pronounced in the East.

Probably because of the Eastern Church’s exhibiting more of God’s attribute on Mercy they are less hard on themselves as do the Western Christian when committing the same venial sins. What you have said in your post, these concerns while they are there, are not in the same league as what your priest was talking about. To commit a mortal sin you must engage with a venial sin first. For instance many of the Church Fathers of the East would say you must wrestle with your thoughts first before they erupt into very serious sin. A person for instance who will commit adultery will have to engage into smaller venial sins before they can blossom into a mortal sin. What you did was too small to mention and in my opinion all that was necessary for you to deal with it is just talk it out with the Lord. Remember you were not looking for this when you saw and heard this. It would have been different if you were looking for it. And even if you were looking for this, in this case I would classify it as still venial but in a more serious tone. When you get into this in a more heavier tone then you will need help to overcome it when you are the one saying these “jokes” and you are the one living by them. Most people who commit mortal sins would never show the concerns you expressed. Your concerns shows how much respect and love you have for yourself for the Lord so I see it as a growing experience so please do not be too hard on yourself.

That is how the Eastern Church’s Fathers would comment on this.

 

[Kathrin]

well I am a Western catholic and when I come to a priest asking him about a perceived sin - my conscience being very tender - they also stress the mercy of God rather than the justice.

 

[Qoeleth]

Good morning.
First of all, Merry Christmas to all of you.

So, this is my dilemma… The other day i was watching on TV a program, it was aired at 2 pm or something like that… So, i assume it was a family program. The program was supposed to be humorous … One of the jokes was about cheating and premarital sex. I don’t know if this is relevant, but the joke lasted around 3 minutes. Nobody was naked or anything like that…
The other day the Homily was about having custody of the eyes, the father was talking about it, because we were celebrating the feast of St Lucy. Well, in my case I didn’t have the ability to take custody of my ears.

Do you think i committed a mortal sin?

Thank you.

Of course it’s not a sin. Even if the joke itself might have been immoral, you only heard it, you are not responsible for it. You didn’t go out of you way to hear it either, it just happenned to be on. Possibly you could have changed the channel, if your conscience alerted you that maybe it was degrading or awakening impurity, but, at worst, it is barely even a venial sin.

 

[Qoeleth]

Having custody of your eyes is about avoiding near occassions of sin. If the program tempted you to sins of impurity (like masturbation), than the masturbation would be a grave sin and potentially mortal (habitual masturbation is not a mortal sin so long as the individual is trying to overcome the habit. The habitual nature of it reduces the individual’s freedom to choose. Sin is always an abuse of our freedom. As such, a habitual masturbator whose seeking regular confession and striving to overcome the habit, is usually consulted by their priests to go up to communion for the grace to overcome the sin. However, it is best to seek the counsel of a priest if it seems such a sin is happening so frequently that you’re almost never receiving communion. Seeking counsel from the priest should happen first as he adds an objective eye to your situation).

If it tempted you, but you refrained, than you choose not to sin but probably just acted imprudently. Moreover, in the quest toward holiness, it is good to free ourselves from programs that demean sex. Its not all about sin. Its also about pursuing virtue.

I am suprised a connection is drawn so readily between a ‘sexual joke’, and practice of a vice. Surely, the OP did not even refer to it. This particular vice seems to be unhealthily prominent in people’s minds on this forum.

 

[R_C]

Sin is an offense on your side. If you seek for jokes that elicit lust, this is sinful. If you randomly hear a joke that is or may be sinful in content, at most (perhaps) it counts as a venial sin, but I would not see it as mortal.

In truth, we are all sinners We should not think that unless we mortally sin we’re sinless. In fact, venial sin is so widespread that it’s almost undetectable - especially through the media.

Remember also that in order to commit a mortal sin you must want to do so. There’s no such thing as a mortal sin without full consent!

Congratulations for your effort on keeping custody of your ears and eyes, which greatly honors the temple of the Holy Spirit which you are and in which God loves to dwell, and merry Christmas.

 

[chimo]

well I am a Western catholic and when I come to a priest asking him about a perceived sin - my conscience being very tender - they also stress the mercy of God rather than the justice.

I wasn’t referring to your need but on the way God sees your sin. Mercy is always available at Confession and this can be your greatest comfort no matter if you see the sin in more weight than what would an Easterner. When I said that the West points more to the Discipline “Justice” of God I am not denying the Westerner to know His Mercy. The statement for which I gave is a compliment to Rome to understand more what the Justice of God can imply. Rome’s understanding of God’s Justice led her to the doctrine of Pugatory. Purgatory is God’s saving Justice in action. God can save you either through the door of His Justice or the door of His Mercy. It will be better if we all went through the door of His Mercy. Since not everyone responds to His Mercy in the same degree then God must apply His Justice when it is necessary. Purgatory is one such example.

I am glad you understand and experience God’s Mercy. Yet in no way does this dismisses His Justice. When I speak of Justice I am referring to His Discipline and Correction. Whether you know it or not we all experience both His Justice (Discipline) and Mercy. You can’t have it only one way (that is Mercy only). God is both Just and Merciful and applies both these attributes accordingly to our needs. It is vitally important to experience His Discipline otherwise you will not appreciate His Gifts. To make it easier to understand this I will point to a mother and father who are raising their children. One parent exhibits more discipline and the other more on the nurturing side. This balance is what every child needs for their spiritual growth. It is the same for God. He must show His Discipline and His Mercy for your spiritual growth.

When I said the Eastern Church examplifies more of His Mercy this is only a compliment towards her own understanding what her Saints and Witnesses have all expressed throughout their lives and writings. This does not dismiss what the Catholic goes through. On the contrary the Catholic experiences this as well but what I have observed living in both worlds is the Easterner tends to be raised knowing and experiencing God’s Mercy from a very young age since there is no delay in receiving the Sacraments. A child recieving the Sacraments from their baby years will have more to reflect on than let us say a Catholic who only starts the Sacraments at age 8 and then Confirmation at a later age. I wasn’t putting down Rome only illustrating that because of her own understanding and development in the Sacraments she is most gifted towards Discipline.

Even in the East we need to be more sensitive about this. Rome can help us in this matter. However my point to the person in question regarding their post was if this was an Eastern problem it would have been dwelt differently. I would have felt like this person years ago when I was raised in the Western Church but since my growth within the Eastern Church I now dismiss these judgements on myself with the light the Eastern Church has given to me.

 

[Kathrin]

Chimo - I think I did misunaderstand you, I apologize.

Also priests must know what they stress in a conversation with a particular person. If a person who has a serious problem with scrupulosity (and I have had very severe bouts of it) asks a question they probably will stress his mercy even more.

But this is aside the original question and I do not want to distract from it!

 

[chimo]

Chimo - I think I did misunaderstand you, I apologize.

Also priests must know what they stress in a conversation with a particular person. If a person who has a serious problem with scrupulosity (and I have had very severe bouts of it) asks a question they probably will stress his mercy even more.

But this is aside the original question and I do not want to distract from it!

St. Therese of Liseaux had that as well. In fact in the movie “Therese” made for her life, her father often would help her with her scrupulosity so you are in very fine company. I would not use the word “mercy” if I was acknowledging to another person’s scrupulosity since your needs is not entirely mercy (because your sins are not that severe to make a request towards His Mercy) but it is more listening to you and understanding more to your concerns so that the person can give back to you some light to help you overcome it. In this situation a person needs to know he or she is loved and understood. In some respects a person who is scrupulous can overcome their “fears” by knowing more of God as a loving Parent who wishes to deal with you just like your own father would. When we do act in this way (scrupulous) He will deal with us with more tenderness and would smile on us more. He knows you are struggling with this so He acts with more patience reassuring you that your sins are not as severe as they seem to be. In this situation “Mercy” is more on the tenderness side giving you the courage to look more on the One who loves you and giving you the Grace to rely more on His Presence and rely less on your own.

 

[Kathrin]

In some respects a person who is scrupulous can overcome their “fears” by knowing more of God as a loving Parent

That is also what I meant

and giving you the Grace to rely more on His Presence and rely less on your own.

I am not totally sure what you mean here - like not being able to trust one’s own conscience?
(since this is off topic maybe you can send me a pm? But don’t have to, of course )

 

[chimo]

That is also what I meant

I am not totally sure what you mean here - like not being able to trust one’s own conscience?
(since this is off topic maybe you can send me a pm? But don’t have to, of course )

When we gives ourselves totally to the one we are addressing all of our fears are gone. When we hold back some of those fears are still present. We can sense judgement when there is actually no judgement from the other at all. To give your trust totally to Jesus is love in perfection and love in action more like a child who surrenders to the love of their parents. That is all God requires of you. To put your trust in Him and not on yourself. When we think only of ourselves we are actually causing those same problems for which we are searching the answers to. It is like this. I will take two examples from the Diary of St. Maria Faustina and I hope you will take the time to read this great spiritual book. It will help you as it did for me. Maria decided to practice a virtue that day and incredible as it was she felled 10X that day after she resolved not to! She complained to her Lord about this and He simply said, “You were too much relying on yourself than on Me.” He was very gentle and tender toward her.

Another time there was an older sister who had doubts she was forgiven so she had no peace within. She told this to Maria and Maria said to tell this to her priest. She said she did so but she still had no peace. She grabbed Maria’s hand and said, “But you talk to Jesus.” That night Jesus came to Maria and said this to her. “Tell her her disbelief wounds my heart more than her own sins.” She did so and the older sister gave out a big cry for she experienced that relief she so desperately needed.

I hope this helps.

 

[Kathrin]

thank you I think I actaully have had experiences like this: Suddenly feeling God’s great love for me, at the same time feeling some wonderful kind of trust in Him… or talking to Jesus I have felt this… And thank you for the book recommendation

 

[howareyou1]

Thank you so much to every person who responded to my question. Thank you for your kindness.

 

[Evenios]

um no…