Do you think TLM would become more common in the future?

[Monica4316]

Hi

I’m becoming Catholic this Easter… I really love the Church but most of all I love the Latin Mass and traditional Catholicism. I’m not against VII and I accept it as a council but I think some things were taken too far …and hopefully over time, the liturgy would get ‘balanced out’ again… It’s good to see that Pope Benedict encourages Catholic tradition and isn’t a “modernist”.

but there isn’t a Latin Mass parish anywhere where I live. There are a few in a big city not too far away… but I don’t have a way to get there every week.

Do you all think that the Latin Mass would once again become common at some point in the future? Or would it just die out and we’ll have only NO? (even if it’s really properly done reverent NO…I hope we don’t lose the older Mass!)

thinking about all this makes me so sad sometimes
sometimes I worry that the Church is losing its ‘Catholic identity’? I mean that people are just forgetting about it…

 

[Monica4316]

it also makes me sad how so many churches have been “modernized” and the statues etc were removed… do you think that this will ever be changed back to the way it was?

 

[Layman]

[My opinion]

I think it will get more popular, if only for the novelty factor. Priests re-discovering their authority via it will help. Interest from younger people and older ones tired of the novelties in the N.O will help.

That it is a fine, solemn and beautiful way to meet your Creator will also help.

I don’t think the TLM is a ‘magic fix’ for declining congregations, but it’s an excellent start.

I think the problem is that, due to poor catechesis, many Catholics today don’t know their religion.

They don’t know what a TLM is, having never attended one. They don’t know much about mortal sin, or Hell. Easy-going clergy and laid-back Masses convey the impression that Jesus is also fairly easy-going; an unwise assumption.

I think liberal parishes will continue to decline and that those that have and whose congregations support the TLM will continue and expand if the preaching and attitude of the priests gets a bit more robust.

We think we’re immortal and invulnerable now. Immortal people take a casual approach to eternity.

 

[Deum_quaerens]

In some time, given the pace at which the number of vocations is increasing in traditionalist communities and conservative diocesan seminaries promoting the TLM, it will once again be the Mass of the majority.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Hi

I’m becoming Catholic this Easter… I really love the Church but most of all I love the Latin Mass and traditional Catholicism. I’m not against VII and I accept it as a council but I think some things were taken too far …and hopefully over time, the liturgy would get ‘balanced out’ again… It’s good to see that Pope Benedict encourages Catholic tradition and isn’t a “modernist”.

but there isn’t a Latin Mass parish anywhere where I live. There are a few in a big city not too far away… but I don’t have a way to get there every week.

Do you all think that the Latin Mass would once again become common at some point in the future? Or would it just die out and we’ll have only NO? (even if it’s really properly done reverent NO…I hope we don’t lose the older Mass!)

thinking about all this makes me so sad sometimes
sometimes I worry that the Church is losing its ‘Catholic identity’? I mean that people are just forgetting about it…

As Deum_quaerens says, it will in time become the Mass of the majority. Heck, look at the EF parishes, and the NO parishes. The EFers have many more.

I do think that in time the EF will once again be the sole Mass for the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church (at least universally, smaller, localized Masses notwithstanding).

It is LOVELY to hear that you are a convert to the Faith, and love the Traditional Latin Mass. (I say “Traditional,” because technically the Novus Ordo can [and should…] be done in Latin, so to call the TLM “the Latin Mass” is slightly misleading).

I pray that you will soon have the EF/a traditional parish in your area soon!

 

[srp643]

In some time, given the pace at which the number of vocations is increasing in traditionalist communities and conservative diocesan seminaries promoting the TLM, it will once again be the Mass of the majority.

Amen. Our prayers are being heard. I just read that between 60 and 80 percent of the prayers in the TLM were removed when they fabricated the NO. Truly unbelievable. No wonder places like Notre Dame have so many problems. Only the TLM can reverse the course we are on. Deo gratias.

 

[Monica4316]

thanks for the replies

I think that maybe we should all pray for the TLM

I really hope someone will start one around where I live…

or maybe over time the NO will slowly become more and more like TLM until there is basically no distinction?

It’s only been 30 years since VII and changes in the Church tend to happen slowly… guess we should just wait… it’s kind of difficult for me as a convert though cause I don’t want the liturgy to be anything like the Protestant services, there was a reason I left, I wanted the Eucharist and more reverence during Communion…

 

[ravenonthecross]

thanks for the replies

I think that maybe we should all pray for the TLM

I really hope someone will start one around where I live…

or maybe over time the NO will slowly become more and more like TLM until there is basically no distinction?

It’s only been 30 years since VII and changes in the Church tend to happen slowly… guess we should just wait… it’s kind of difficult for me as a convert though cause I don’t want the liturgy to be anything like the Protestant services, there was a reason I left, I wanted the Eucharist and more reverence during Communion…

Hey Monica! Remember me from OBOB? I glad to hear that you’re entering the Church.

Personally, I think the TLM will be more common in a modified form (In Latin, but with the Holy Scriptures in the Vernacular) and the Novus Ordo will eventually be abolished. I personally, think it was too “protestantized” anyways.

More reverence is good. I think a serious re-evaluation of Vatican II and significant re-alignment back to the orthodox and Traditional view and interpretation of Catholic dogma and doctrine is currently underway.

(Personally, I think rather a Vatican III will be called in our lifetimes to purge the errors of the “spirit of Vatican,” to restore Traditional Doctrine and dogmata and clarify understanding for the faithful and clerics alike. This "Third Vatican Council will be more like a Second Tridentine Council and restore order and doctrinal and liturgical clarity [and probably give the modified Tridentine Mass pre-eminence as the prime Roman rite] in the Church with the help and guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Christus Vincit. Christus Imperat. Christus regnat.
In Pax Christi,
Matthew

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Personally, I think the TLM will be more common in a modified form (In Latin, but with the Holy Scriptures in the Vernacular) and the Novus Ordo will eventually be abolished. I personally, think it was too “protestantized” anyways.

Matthew

I think that is currently permitted under the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum.

 

[ravenonthecross]

I think that is currently permitted under the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum.

I know. Thank you for your kind reminder.

 

[ravenonthecross]

I think that is currently permitted under the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum.

Sind Sie Bayerisch? Ich bin a’ bisschen Bayerisch und Oesterisch. I have family from both sides of the Austro-Bavarian border. sorry, for the thread Hi-jacking!

 

[Cat]

As Deum_quaerens says, it will in time become the Mass of the majority. Heck, look at the EF parishes, and the NO parishes. The EFers have many more.

I do think that in time the EF will once again be the sole Mass for the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church (at least universally, smaller, localized Masses notwithstanding).

It is LOVELY to hear that you are a convert to the Faith, and love the Traditional Latin Mass. (I say “Traditional,” because technically the Novus Ordo can [and should…] be done in Latin, so to call the TLM “the Latin Mass” is slightly misleading).

I pray that you will soon have the EF/a traditional parish in your area soon!

Boldface mine–is this true in Milwaukee? I live across the stateline south of you, and our city of 150,000 has had Latin Mass since the mid-1980s. No WAY do more people attend TLM than all the NO parishes in this city. No way.

 

[Monica4316]

Hey Monica! Remember me from OBOB? I glad to hear that you’re entering the Church.

Hi! wow I didn’t know you were here too!
yes, I’m entering the Church on Easter!

Personally, I think the TLM will be more common in a modified form (In Latin, but with the Holy Scriptures in the Vernacular) and the Novus Ordo will eventually be abolished. I personally, think it was too “protestantized” anyways.

More reverence is good. I think a serious re-evaluation of Vatican II and significant re-alignment back to the orthodox and Traditional view and interpretation of Catholic dogma and doctrine is currently underway.

hmm I hope so!
the only thing… if such changes do happen, would they actually be implemented on a parish level? I think maybe it would happen with the new generation of priests… they’d have to make changes in the seminaries too for this to be successful. They’d have to teach more about the rubrics etc and not encourage ‘modernization’.

(Personally, I think rather a Vatican III will be called in our lifetimes to purge the errors of the “spirit of Vatican,” to restore Traditional Doctrine and dogmata and clarify understanding for the faithful and clerics alike. This "Third Vatican Council will be more like a Second Tridentine Council and restore order and doctrinal and liturgical clarity [and probably give the modified Tridentine Mass pre-eminence as the prime Roman rite] in the Church with the help and guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Christus Vincit. Christus Imperat. Christus regnat.
In Pax Christi,
Matthew

you know, I sincerely hope that would happen! I’d be glad to see that in my lifetime.

God bless

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Boldface mine–is this true in Milwaukee? I live across the stateline south of you, and our city of 150,000 has had Latin Mass since the mid-1980s. No WAY do more people attend TLM than all the NO parishes in this city. No way.

I misspoke.

I meant, people with lots and lots of babies attend the EF (whereas those with few attend the NO). Not people in general. That was a case of mis-typing!

Mea culpa!

PS - I’m sorry to hear you live in Illinois!

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Sind Sie Bayerisch? Ich bin a’ bisschen Bayerisch und Oesterisch. I have family from both sides of the Austro-Bavarian border. sorry, for the thread Hi-jacking!

Raven:
Nein, ich bin nicht Bayerisch - nur Amerikan! I have German descent (we came over a few generations ago), but I’m also Polish and Irish.

Originally, the name BayernAnhaenger referred to my fan-ship/following of the FC Bayern Muenchen football club. But, after having visited Bavaria and Austria, my love has gone over to the entire country/area! I’m currently in Stuttgart, Germany (so close to Bavaria!!), and just love Bavaria… If I could retire any place, it’d be in a small Catholic town near the Bayern/Austrian border. Lovely place.

 

[Cat]

I misspoke.

I meant, people with lots and lots of babies attend the EF (whereas those with few attend the NO). Not people in general. That was a case of mis-typing!

Mea culpa!

PS - I’m sorry to hear you live in Illinois!

Land of Blagojevich. Lucky me.

Seriously, I respectfully disagree. I think you’re making a generalization. The OF Mass I attended this morning had an awful lot of families with four and more children (and I seemed to be sitting next to all of them!) and many babies on the way, unless those were just fat tummies. One beautiful lady and her husband have six little girls–so cute.

This seems to be the rule for the OF Masses that I attend. There is one family in the Italian parish where I play–eight absolutely movie-star gorgeous little children in ten years of marriage, and from what I understand, they are open to more children.

And one family in our OF parish has 17 naturally-born children! (Another family has 17 children, two natural and 15 adopted.)

Very encouraging.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I think that the Mass of the future stands a good chance of being not so much a hybrid, but slow organic development and growth of the two forms together into one. It may be a process of trimming down the EF, but retaining the essentials, and a more faithful observance of the rubrics for the OF. I would love to hear the EF offered in the vernacular and would cheer if that were the standard, with an audible canon and no repetitions of the Confietor. I would likewise prefer to see no Eucharistic prayer options apart from the Roman Canon for the OF.

And I’ve been to plenty of OF parishes with large families, so I doubt the baby factor relates.

 

[Deum_quaerens]

I would love to hear the EF offered in the vernacular and would cheer if that were the standard, with an audible canon and no repetitions of the Confietor.

So you would love to hear an ad orientem OF, basically.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

So you would love to hear an ad orientem OF, basically.

No, I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood me. An examination of some of the parts show that (and I acknowledged that this is a subjective judgement) the EF has some profound and heart-stirring prose, almost thundering in its import, that is lacking in the OF. Take the Offeratory, for example:

EF: “Recieve, Holy Lord, God Almighty and Everlasting, this unblemished host which I, your unworthy servant, offer to you, my living and true God…”

As opposed to:

OF: “Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation, through your goodness we have this bread to offer…”

Though I love the OF (it has been the liturgy of my whole life as a Catholic), I think that had they simply translated the EF into the various vernaculars, with a commitment to the idea that any translation had to be of the highest and most elegant of forms (“thee” as opposed to “you”), and then held the line on the “spirit” of Vatican II types, we wouldn’t be seeing the problems we’ve seen. Oh, we’d have a few nutters here and there who would try stamp the liturgy with their egos, but I think this would have solved a lot of problems and I see something like this being the middle way of the future.

The OF ad orientum wouldn’t be a bad thing, though.