Do you think we should shake hands after praying the Our Father at Mass?

[pianistclare]

A priest friend of mine said (years ago) that those who decide such things were considering putting the Sign of Peace more toward the beginning of Mass, rather than where it is today. That could solve a lot of discomfort, but it never happened, so…perhaps he was simply wishing.

 

[pismopal]

i’ll take handshakes any day over the kiss of peace that used to be the custom in the early church. i’ve never seen the sign of peace get chaotic and i’ve been to a lot of parishes.

also, i’ve never seen a parish hold hands during the our father in Canada, the only time it did happen was when i was visiting in las vegas. it seems a little strange to me since no one here does it but it’s not really a big thing in my opinion

The only time you will see this is in the US and then only at parishes where it “catches on” and monkey see monkey do is the rule. I personally do no like hand holding but I will do it if it obvious that my neighbor is really into it. My parish is also replete with hand gestures that I refrain from because the practice is just out of order…imho

 

[pianistclare]

The only time you will see this is in the US and then only at parishes where it “catches on” and monkey see monkey do is the rule. I personally do no like hand holding but I will do it if it obvious that my neighbor is really into it. My parish is also replete with hand gestures that I refrain from because the practice is just out of order…imho

we have a parish full of presiders as well. God bless them.
And may God make me a more charitable person.
Peace.

 

[jtkalehua88]

Your topic asks about shaking hands but your poll asks about holding hands during the Our Father. I would say no to the hand holding during Our Father and yes to the Sign of Peace, as the Sign of Peace is part of the rubrics of the Mass. I’ve never seen the hand holding during Our Father it the many Spanish masses I’ve attended throughout various parishes. I’ve only ever seen in at the English masses, I’m not used to it. So I just don’t feel comfortable holding hands during the prayer. I attend Mass by myself, as I’m the only active Catholic in my family, so I don’t really know anyone sitting by me when I go to Mass. Just seems awkward to me. But I most definitely shake hands with the people around me and give them eye contact during the Sign of Peace.

 

[Bklynguy]

No, because of two reasons: 1) The Sign of Peace can get chaotic, as there are people shouting, mothers kissing their children, and conversations.

1. The Sign of Peace is a Novus Ordo innovation. Before the Novus Ordo, the Sign of Peace was strictly for the celebrants, and was only done at High Mass. I would support returning to the practice of the Sign of Peace only among the celebrants.

I remember being at my wife’s Lutheran church, and the sign of peace is actually a five minute ordeal with people actually leaving their pews and walking all over the church to shake everyone’s hand. The church got very noisy in conversation. I was mortified and remember thinking how irreverent the whole thing was.

 

[bben15]

I remember being at my wife’s Lutheran church, and the sign of peace is actually a five minute ordeal with people actually leaving their pews and walking all over the church to shake everyone’s hand. The church got very noisy in conversation. I was mortified and remember thinking how irreverent the whole thing was.

As a former Lutheran, I know what you mean, as the Sign of Peace got very chaotic. Strangely, in the Catholic Church, it’s even more chaotic.

You really shouldn’t be “mortified.” It is not “irreverent” in a Lutheran church because there is nothing to be irreverent to. Lutherans do not have a valid Eucharist.

But, you should be “mortified” if this happens in a Catholic church.

 

[firead]

I have no problem with shaking hands during the sign of the peace, as long is it’s done in order and not stretched out or too boisterous, but the timing seems sort of distracting to me. It’s like consecration, prayer, “ok, let’s all shake hands and say hi”, then OK back to Jesus (at the Agnus Dei / fraction).

OTOH, I don’t hold hands during the Our Father, and I’m glad that a sizable minority in my parish don’t do it, either. I try to sit beside people who don’t do the hand-holding or sit on the end of the pew with my son in between us. to avoid it. It feels like a Protestant thing to me because the Pentecostal church my mom went to for a while was really big on it and it felt weird and awkward even back then.

 

[pianistclare]

I agree the sign of peace is in an awkward spot. A really awkward spot. Like a commercial break.
And now…back to our original programming…

For me, the hand holding gets really awkward because our parish holds hands across the aisle!!! And if I don’t extend my hand people have emptied the pew beside me and stare at me like I’m the most hateful person ever.
So then I feel obligated to hold hands. That, and the occasional person that taps me on the shoulder, and pries my hands apart…
I just don’t like being accosted in church, call me crazy.


But…it’s the norm now. No changing it.
I doubt we’ll ever get a priest who tells people not to hold hands. It’s not a fight they care to fight. People run across the sanctuary at the sign of peace. They seem to think it makes us a “welcoming parish”.
sigh.

I need to pray for tolerance.

 

[bben15]

I agree the sign of peace is in an awkward spot. A really awkward spot. Like a commercial break.
And now…back to our original programming…

For me, the hand holding gets really awkward because our parish holds hands across the aisle!!! And if I don’t extend my hand people have emptied the pew beside me and stare at me like I’m the most hateful person ever.
So then I feel obligated to hold hands. That, and the occasional person that taps me on the shoulder, and pries my hands apart…
I just don’t like being accosted in church, call me crazy.


But…it’s the norm now. No changing it.
I doubt we’ll ever get a priest who tells people not to hold hands. It’s not a fight they care to fight. People run across the sanctuary at the sign of peace. They seem to think it makes us a “welcoming parish”.
sigh.

I need to pray for tolerance.

Holding hands is not prescribed, and it is liturgical abuse. I would not recommend that you participate in it.

If a priest asked you to gather around the altar during the Consecration, even if it was the “norm,” would you do it?

 

[curlycool89]

Really, all that matters is that Rome has said that it is appropriate to share a sign of peace after the Our Father, before communion. In North American (and European) culture, a handshake is a customary sign of greeting and peace. It’s a sign of peace (I believe, I think this is the historical reason) with your right hand because if you shake with your right you can’t be holding a sword (because left-handed people are sinister ).

bben15:

The Sign of Peace is a Novus Ordo innovation. Before the Novus Ordo, the Sign of Peace was strictly for the celebrants, and was only done at High Mass. I would support returning to the practice of the Sign of Peace only among the celebrants.

St. Justin Martyr disagrees with you. The Kiss of Peace (as it was then called) was a part of Mass that existed in antiquity. It’s in Paragraph 1345 of the Catechism. It was done after the intercessory prayers and before the offertory (following the Lord’s teaching that if you have anything against your brother, reconcile before taking your gift to the altar).

St. Justin was not a priest (not that I could find), and in his letter he specifically uses the first person plural “we” when he says “When the prayers were concluded we exchange the kiss”. He explicitly said that all people were exchanging the kiss of peace, not just the priests because he includes himself in that statement. Therefore, the sign of peace begin exchanged by all the congregation pre-dates the clerical-only one in the Tridentine Mass.

We shouldn’t shake hands (among other things that need to be excised out of the Novus Ordo, for another time) after the Our Father. The Sign of Peace is unnecessary, and in some ways, distracting. The Mass is about Christ, not the people. There are times after Mass to do that.

The sign of peace is a practice dating back to the first Christians and follows a command of Christ to reconcile with our brothers before the offering.

It was moved to before communion because it is after the Our Father, wherein we ask the Father to “forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. It can’t just be a prayer. If it is only words, if it is only internal, then it is useless. To say “as I forgive those” and then not act essentially negates the words you just said. This was a command given to us by Jesus, so far from distracting us from Him, it leads us to Him.

The greatest commandment Jesus gave us was to Love God AND to love neighbour. We express our love of God by our love of neighbour. We express our reverence for God by recognizing Christ in our neighbour (cf. Matthew 25:40). If we focus exclusively on Jesus while totally ignoring our neighbour, well, we’ve basically negated what Jesus taught us.

 

[pianistclare]

Holding hands is not prescribed, and it is liturgical abuse. I would not recommend that you participate in it.

If a priest asked you to gather around the altar during the Consecration, even if it was the “norm,” would you do it?

No, and it’s not the same thing at all.
My priest would never abuse his position like that.
But he would say to err on the side of charity.
If someone extends their hand to me, I commit a greater sin by snubbing them.

 

[SofSP]

Matthew 5:23-24:

Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

To me, the Sign of Peace, theoretically and theologically, provides this opportunity. It’s happened to me on more than one occasion (maybe I got more upset than I should have that my wife was taking too long to get ready for Mass, etc.). The fact that it’s taking place right before one receives the Eucharist seems, IMHO, appropriate.

The problems associated with the Sign of Peace are reasons for clarification and instruction, because they can be remedied. Just because something is done incorrectly or inappropriately does not mean it should be abandoned.

 

[SofSP]

Holding hands is not prescribed, and it is liturgical abuse. I would not recommend that you participate in it.

Please take this as an honest question, and not sarcastic (it’s one of the downsides of the internet- you can’t hear my tone of voice): Does this argument really hold water? I mean, the fact that we should breathe is also not proscribed. It doesn’t say we should stand on two feet.

Additionally, the Liturgy has always been open to ‘organic’ changes. But, what are organic changes? If they are actions that arise naturally, are and remain pervasive, and that are not inherently inappropriate (I would assume that the argument goes we are saying “Our Father”, and holding hands with others brings that verbal sense of community into reality), then holding hands during the Our Father seems ‘organic’.

NB: I don’t hold hands during the Our Father, and the only time I do is when someone forces it upon me (better to be charitable than reciprocally rude).

 

[pnewton]

As a former Lutheran, I know what you mean, as the Sign of Peace got very chaotic. Strangely, in the Catholic Church, it’s even more chaotic.

This doesn’t happen in the “Catholic Church”. It happens in Catholic churches at Mass. I have never seen the chaos you mention. Five minutes? I give it about 15 seconds.

 

[pnewton]

Please take this as an honest question, and not sarcastic (it’s one of the downsides of the internet- you can’t hear my tone of voice): Does this argument really hold water? I mean, the fact that we should breathe is also not proscribed. It doesn’t say we should stand on two feet.

Breathing and standing are two things we must do. It is part of existence. Posture is not. I prefer the question of folding hands in prayer, as many do out of tradition. That too is not proscribed, but I have never seen anyone argue that folding hands in prayer is a liturgical abuse.

“Liturgical abuse” in this case is an opinion. The Church has never ruled that holding hands in the Our Father is a liturgical abuse, the way it has for some practices (see Sacramentum Redemptionis). It is no secret many churches have this practice. I will wait until something is said before I will label it. Now, there is one diocese where this practice has been specifically banned, I believe. In such a case, it would be an abuse because it is contrary to the bishop, who is in charge of the liturgy.

 

[Cat]

I think we should obey our territorial authorities, as they have been given this authority by Holy Mother Church, who is Headed up by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Holly3278]

I think we should because its the sign of peace. However, with the knowledge we have about germs and such, it might be a good idea to institute a different type of a sign of peace.

 

[AClaire11]

I love one of our priests because he does not give the opportunity for this during his Masses. However, I don’t terribly mind the practice, as long as everyone stays where they are and just shakes the hands of those around them. I remember how college dorm Masses get absolutely out of control at this point of the liturgy, and even the priest will run around hugging people. shudder

I’m personally way more bothered by the people who wave their arms around at every “and with your spirit” and at the end of the Our Father.

 

[pnewton]

I love one of our priests because he does not give the opportunity for this during his Masses.

Does he not give opportunity to move around or does he just skip parts of the Mass.

 

[AClaire11]

Does he not give opportunity to move around or does he just skip parts of the Mass.

He does not say “Let us offer each other the sign of peace.” He moves from:

Priest: The Peace of the Lord be with you always.
All: And also with you.

to the next part of the Mass. According to Fr. Z, this is allowed.

The so-called “sign of peace” during the Novus Ordo is an option, not a requirement. Initiating the sign of peace is an option left to the discretion of the priest celebrant. He is not obliged to use this option.

(from wdtprs.com/blog/2010/09/quaeritur-the-sign-of-peace-is-optional-can-i-opt-out/)