Do you use feminine or masculine terms in reference to God?

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Publisher:
I didn’t realize we were discussing changing one’s gender…I thought we were discussing “Do you use feminie or masucline terms in reference to God?”

God IS neither…and in scripture God also is spoken of in feminine terms and personal articles of grammer in both Hebrew and Greek…something we do not necessarily have in English.

The Wisdom of God is feminine.

The Holy Spirit has a feminine article…“pneuma” and “ruach” are both feminine.

The Shekinah is feminine.

Jesus is reported to have said that God is like a mother hen who wishes to gather her chicks under her wing.

Isaiah 66:13 As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you . . .

Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth ,“You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.”

Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman , “As the eyes of a servant looks to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to you, YHWH, until you show us your mercy!”

While I relate to God best as “Father”…I do not begrudge others who come to God as a hurt child runs to it’s mother…some must see God a “Mother” before they ever can see God as “Father.”

Those citations, while excellent, all refer to characteristics, I don’t find in any of them an argument that we should refer to God as She or Her in speech or print. I have feminine characteristics, for example; I am fiber artist, spinner and weaver of wool; I am a musician and I care for my children and grandchildren but please don’t ever call me maam or mother!
 
Those who insist on using feminine terminology in reference to God, are those that simply do not accept the English language as it exists.

Unless speaking of a specific male, the masculine form in English includes the feminine. He, as referenced to God, would include the feminine and the neuter.

None of us have any knowledge of the “Sex” of God. We do know that his son was very much a Male, but is that part of God that we call, “The father” male? No one knows. How about the Holy Spirit? Once again, no one knows if there is any form of sexual being involved.

We use terms that make sense to us. Those who insist on using feminine terminology, do so for political reasons, not for theological ones.
 
Publisher said:
Friend, I dare say you know that is not what he meant…do you honestly believe that friend LongJourney suggested what you claim? Does your post speak from that Center of Light and Love?
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Actually my post comes from scripture with confirm God being directly referenced as “He” and “Our Father,” and I was responding to the idea that God transcends gender both to that as well as the fact that Christ, the Incarnate God, took on the form of a man, and that the accusation using male pronouns is “sexist” leads one to the same conclusion McLaren did, ignoring the fact that most of that came not only from the ancient Hebrew practice of calling God “he” and “father,” but Christ’s own practices and commands to do so.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
Actually my post comes from scripture with confirm God being directly referenced as “He” and “Our Father,” and I was responding to the idea that God transcends gender both to that as well as the fact that Christ, the Incarnate God, took on the form of a man, and that the accusation using male pronouns is “sexist” leads one to the same conclusion McLaren did, ignoring the fact that most of that came not only from the ancient Hebrew practice of calling God “he” and “father,” but Christ’s own practices and commands to do so.
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So you actually believe friend LongJourney was calling Jesus a transexual and a sexist? Do you really?
 
Publisher said:
So you actually believe friend LongJourney was calling Jesus a transexual and a sexist? Do you really?
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That’s what the weak theology regarding God’s gender implied. :cool:

Any way, why are you asking me? That post you quoted was in the form of a question. I was writing to hear their response. 😃
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
That’s what the weak theology regarding God’s gender implied. :cool:

Any way, why are you asking me? That post you quoted was in the form of a question. I was writing to hear their response. 😃
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Ahhh…so you don’t really believe he was…you just framed your question to imply he did…understood.
 
The_Old_Medic said:
Those who insist on using feminine terminology, do so for political reasons, not for theological ones.
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Reading Aveinda’s post she points out that the her friends are not feminist, but instead use such terms in order to help them feel closer to God. I think for them it has nothing to do with theological or political reasons and every thing to do with holding on to their faith in what ever form they can.

Its strange how so many people on here seem to miss the fact that these women are going through hell on earth, rape is something you can’t just fix. It leave deep scares. I respect these women for trying to hold on to God.

Aveinda your brave for posting this question, I hate that most of the people seem to over look your pain. Personally I use masculine terms, but if using feminine terms is the only way you can prayer, hold on to your faith any way you can. God Bless you
 
While I am listed as agnostic, that is only in regards to Christianity. I do have a faith, but am looking at Christianity for certain answers, because many significant people of my faith say that Christianity is completely compatible with our faith. I don’t see that so clearly, so that’s why I come to this website, but that’s my thing. Anyway, I would first like to say how very sorry I am for what happened to you. I think the incident and it’s effect on you has to be considered in how the subject is approached. I have a friend who was brutally beaten and raped and left for dead. She was on life support for a long time. Now she has Post Traumatic Stress as well. If you couple that sort of experience with what the person who attacked you said about him being God, I think the effect on you would be profound and not something you will be able to gloss over. You should know that your story brings tears to my eyes. So, how do you deal with this problem of how to think of God? Well, this thing is in your mind now, so I don’t think you’ll be able to just get rid of it. You can’t change what happened, but you do have now, so the question is what to do in the here and now.

First let me say that my faith is not for you. You have a faith and that is your path. Over the past 5,000 years we have not looked for converts. However, one aspect of the thinking of my faith might help you with your dilemma. We see God as formless and beyond the causal world. Yet all that has form exists within God, and is part of God. That is why sages from my faith say that Jesus said to love God and love our neighbor as we love ourselves. We believe there are some profound implications there. You might say that while God has no form, God also has all forms, because God is the one great soul from which all seemingly separate souls emanate. Like drops of water that get tossed from the ocean to make journeys in streams rivers and clouds over time, these drops eventually return to and become one again with the source. It is only the intervening journey that we are on. Once the drop of water returns to the ocean, where then is the drop? It is all one. Perhaps some on this forum would see that as inconsistent with Christian teachings. I can’t say. But if you were to consider this view and then build a temple for God in your heart, you would see and feel God in a more intimate and intuitive way. No longer as a man or a woman, but as the knower of all hearts. The knower that knows your heart and lives within it as well. Not a man or a woman, yet all men and all women and all things, and nearer than the breath. If this is inconsistent with your faith then please know that you are free to disregard it. I am only sharing something that I think might help you cross a ponderously wide chasm. Good luck to you and God bless you.

Respectfully,
Sufjon
 
Angel_Hazard said:
Reading Aveinda’s post she points out that the her friends are not feminist, but instead use such terms in order to help them feel closer to God. I think for them it has nothing to do with theological or political reasons and every thing to do with holding on to their faith in what ever form they can.

Its strange how so many people on here seem to miss the fact that these women are going through hell on earth, rape is something you can’t just fix. It leave deep scares. I respect these women for trying to hold on to God.

Aveinda your brave for posting this question, I hate that most of the people seem to over look your pain. Personally I use masculine terms, but if using feminine terms is the only way you can prayer, hold on to your faith any way you can. God Bless you
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Friend, you speak my mind.
 
Publisher said:
Ahhh…so you don’t really believe he was…you just framed your question to imply he did…understood.
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AHHH!! BW, you were just trying to get me to admit to my agenda. OK. Apology offered, and forgiveness accepted. 😃
 
Absolutely 😃 I’m sure I can’t do him justice as a forum poster, but at least it’s a cool name!
 
FWIW:

“That the Shekinah was not an intermediary is shown by the Targum to Ex. xxxiii. 15, xxxiv. 9 (Maybaum, l.c. pp. 5, 34), where the term “Shekinah” is used instead of “God.” The word often occurs, however, in connections where it can not be identical with “God,” e.g., in passages which declare that “the Shekinah rests,” or, more explicitly, that “God allows His Shekinah to rest,”…”

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=s&artid=588#ixzz10NU0tXKF

Doesn’t sound to me like a reference to God as a feminine entity.
 
Jesus came as a man (male), and he gave us a prayer that begins “Our father…”

I agree with Longjourney that limited human language is inadequate to describe an inifinite God, but I feel we are left with the language as it is revealed to us. It is up to us to ponder why this langauge was used and not something else.
As a side note, the quibbling over grammatical gender in non-English languages does not support either a “God is male” or “God is female” argument. In languages that use these systems the pronouns and articles (if the language uses articles) simply agree with the grammatical gender of the noun (and case and number), without regard to the natural gender that the noun’s meaning might imply (e.g., cow or bull). In my experience, languages that don’t use our English system of natural gender = grammatical gender are also amazingly free of conflict over “sexist pronouns” and “inclusive language”. For instance, they don’t mistakenly translate “the Judiazers were circumcising the people”, when “men” would have been fine - to cite one of my favorite inclusive language gaffes.
 
When I research the word “ruach” I find explanation; “the gender for the word ruach seems to shift, and some grammars therefore call ruach a “common gender,” by which it means it can take either a masculine or feminine verb”. Pretty weak argument for a feminine term for God.

When I research the word “pneuma” I find it is a neuter case. No argument for a feminine term for God.

When I research the usage of “Shekinah” I find on the one had it used as a substitute for God, on the other I find the statement “God allows His Shekinah to rest,”…” , it cannot be both a substitute for the word God, He, and feminine at the same time. Contradicts the argument for a feminine term for God.

God is the Trinity, God is historically, traditionally and commonly referred to as masculine therefore, logically, the Trinity and all entities within must, in common usage, be referred to using masculine terminology. The common usage of the masculine for God does not in any way imply God does not have a feminine nature; it is merely traditional, historic, historically accepted terminology.
 
I have a copy of the New Zealand Book of Common Prayer which I use at times for personal devotions. The “Lord’s Prayer”…“Our Father” shines deeper Light into the Prayer…at least I think it does.

**"Eternal Spirit,
Earth-maker, Pain-bearer, Life-giver,
Source of all that is and that shall be,
Father and Mother of us all,
Loving God, in whom is heaven:

The hallowing of your name echo through the universe!
The way of your justice be followed by the peoples of the world!
Your heavenly will be done by all created beings!
Your commonwealth of peace and freedom
sustain our hope and come on earth.

With the bread we need for today, feed us.
In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us.
In times of temptation and testing, strengthen us.
From trials too great to endure, spare us.
From the grip of all that is evil, free us.

For you reign in the glory of the power that is love,
now and for ever. Amen."**
 
Masculine pronouns in English don’t necessarily refer to males as in someone who has a penis. It’s sort of the “default” pronoun when referring to someone or something who is either male or neither male nor female. This is due to the fact that we live in a Patriarchal society, but that’s beside the point. Language is language and you can’t change the rules. God has both feminine and masculine attributes but He is not male or female. If I say “He” I don’t mean to say; God is a male, he has a male’s body, etc. I am saying He is neither, that’s how English works. However, if I say “She” in reference to God, that’s directly calling God a female, which God is not. It is correct to use masculine pronouns in reference to God, at least in English. I can’t say for other languages.
 
This site is not good for my spiritual, emotional, and mental wellness. A large number of people fail to see the point of my request, turning this in to a political, theological and even an English debate. This is not something I sought to cause. From now on I will stay in the non-triggering forums designed for people like my self. At least there rape survivors can ask questions without starting stupid debates that are pointless.

To those who understand: Thank you for your understanding and kindness. Reading your replies were uplifting and as helped me greatly. God bless you all.

To those choose to think that this is a political, theological and even an English issue. You are totally clueless, I wish I still lived in the world you do. Where such issues seem important or even a matter of choice. I miss those days. For women like my friends this is not something that is a choice. I sadly have the same issue as my friends, I have spent hours in prayer over this issue, off on on tormented by the face of that monster who raped me… Reliving the experience. No longer will I do this to my self. Thankful after talking with a Sister (Roman Catholic Nun) this evening she helped me to see that God doesn’t want me to feel this pain. Prayer should not make you wish that you could shoot someone, it should non make you feel like your endanger for your life every time you close your eyes. PTSD is just that our is related to what men have done… I do not hate men but I will never feel safe around them again… The only man I trust is my husband and still sometimes I feel uncomfortable being near him!

Thank you for reminding how childish normal people are…
 
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