Do you weep when you are at prayer?

[romano]

Here’s part of aThe Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian book review by Dana R. Miller. The entire review may be found here.

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Not to distance myself, however, I did not read the book, thus I have no opinion or purpose other than to share some information.

Miller’s point here (and scholars are often malicious) seems to be that Alfeyev has not written a book for the dumbed-down. Horror of horrors! He has actually had the nerve to write a book for the reasonably intelligent reader! Shame on him! Perhaps the dumbed-down should crucify him.

Friend, there is no hope for the dumbed-down products of MSM brainwashing. None at all. The technology is just too effective at doing what it is designed to do. Should I have added a note to my recommendation saying that this is a book the dumbed-down should avoid?

Pax!

 

[romano]

Joysong:

Dear PeterC

:bigyikes: Oh my, I’m beginning to see why Romano was rather harsh with me. Thanks so much for providing this book review for our readers. Hmm, eastern mysticism once again rearing its head. I was particularly disturbed by this paragraph:

Hi Carole:

Funny. I wasn’t disturbed at all. Perhaps that’s because when I want to know what is in a book I read the book, not secondary sources by academics who often have hidden agendas.

St. Isaac is a canonized Saint and one of the most brilliant representatives of Eastern Christianity. Your desire to slur him does you a disservice and strikes me as malicious.

Bye!

 

[romano]

Hi All:

It’s gratifying to learn that so many of you are ‘weepers.’ That’s wonderful. As some of you have pointed out, it’s a very good sign. It’s a sign that you are getting through. It’s a grace. So anyone who may be worrying about it shouldn’t. In fact, it’s those of us who don’t find ourselves weeping who have the problem.

We are supposed to weep! That’s what true contrition will always involve.

 

[Joysong]

Romano,

Today as we celebrate in the Roman rite, the feast of the Most Holy Trinity, we recall the love and unity that exists between them, which ought to be the focus in this Forum among members.

May I ask you what good it does to go to prayer and weep with contrition and sorrow for sin, and then go outward to another Christian and use judgmental tirades towards them?

This is the third time you have judged me unfavorably without asking for clarification. In fact, when I gave two honest replies, you offered no apology for misinterpreting my motives.

Nowhere did I slur your St. Isaac, and nowhere was my intent malicious. I gave a comment on PeterC’s article which was NOT written by St. Isaac, but by Alfeyev – who is not canonized, and who was critiqued unfavorably in part of this article.

Now I have to ask myself, why should I bother to read your book, possibly absorbing some unorthodox opinions that have nothing to do with St. Isaac.

After witnessing your judgmental attitude, I would have difficulty trusting your recommendations on anything whatsoever.

 

[romano]

Hi all you joyful weepers out there!

I have a bit of St. Isaac (who is BTW quoted in CCC # 2717) from Alfeyev that I thought might be of interest to those of you who are genuinely concerned to understand the subject of weeping. Alfeyev (a fine scholar who is disliked by Miller because he points out some serious weaknesses in Miller’s translation of St. Isaac) writes as follows:

“The tears of compunction which are accompanied by the feeling of spiritual joy are granted to someone who attains purity of heart and dispassion. . . .” (p.138).

Then follows this amazing passage from St. Isaac:

**"Blessed, therefore, are the pure in heart, for there is no time when they do not enjoy the sweetness of tears. . . . and they make no prayers without tears. This is the meaning of the Lord’s saying,

‘Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted’"** (pp.138-9).

Weeping, in short, is a BEATITUDE!

“Mourning,” in other words, is understood here as “weeping” by St. Isaac. It was also understood as “weeping” by St. Hilary (Bishop of Poictiers, A.D. 354, who, as a European may perhaps prove more acceptable to certain types than the Syrian St. Isaac) who explains Matthew 5:4: “Those that mourn, that is, not loss of kindred, affronts, or losses, but who weep for past sins.” In addition, Pseudo-Chrysostom, in explicating Matthew 5:4 also writes: “And they who weep for their own sins are blessed.” These lines, and a few others like them, will be found in the CATENA AUREA of another European, St. Thomas Aquinas.

Alfeyev continues: “Thus the tears of compunction which are born as someone reaches the state of purity and dispassion lead him to the perfection of the love of God. And the sign that the person has attained the love of God is his ability to shed tears every time when he remembers God. . . .” (p.139).

There’s much more but, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, it isn’t exactly easy to summarize Alfeyev on St. Isaac. You’d be far better off just buying the book, or getting it through some sort of inter-library loan.

It’s a pearl!

 

[romano]

Joysong:

Romano,

Today as we celebrate in the Roman rite, the feast of the Most Holy Trinity. . . .

Dear Joysong:

Your post, if I may say so, seems a bit harsh. However, I’m sorry if my somewhat direct manner of speaking seems to have offended you. Please accept my sincere apologies.

Still, you must admit that your dislike of the Orthodox Church is one that, in these days of ecumenism, was most certainly not shared by the late Pope John Paul II, of beloved memory, who on more than one occasion urged us to draw on the spiritual treasures of the Eastern Church, which is all I’ve been trying to do here.

Please cheer up.

 

[Joysong]

Romano,

Apologies accepted, with sincere hopes for a fresh start. With a sigh of deep sadness, I have to say once again that I have never said I dislike the Orthodox Church, have I? Isn’t this another judgment of my motives? I am one of the most ecumenical people I know, and I invite you to explore that side of me rather than persist in this train of thought. One of my favorite posters is “Stillsmallvoice” whom I esteem very much, as I do the Jewish brethren.

Carole

 

[romano]

Joysong:

Romano,

Apologies accepted. . . .

Hi Joysong:

OK. Great. Let’s do that. But I wonder where all the weepers have gone? I hope our little misunderstanding hasn’t scared them off. I reckon some of the stuff on this thread should be very good news for them. Sadly, to tell the truth I don’t find myself weeping much at all.

But I’m working on it! :crying:

 

[coralewisjr]

Highwayman:

I often begin the morning process for people who are still alive. I went to pray for Pope John Paul II and could not stop weeping the morning before he died. I often see weeks and even months ahead to someones passing. I knew of several family members time was coming. The last time I saw my father I knew he only had a week to live. It can be a bit hard to expain this emotion, especialy when no one seems to see what you see. I saw September 11th almost one month ahead and woke that morning in tears and dread. None of my family takes me seriously so I keep it to myself and pray alone and greave. God Bless

It must be hard to have that gift. I knew that a friend’s grandpa was going to die when she told me that she’d had his second stroke, and not long after that, she was at the funeral with her family. I was so worried about her because she already fights depression and then her grandpa died (and recently her dog had to be put down). I used to think I’m psychic…in a small way, I am. You have it worse than I do because I just “know” - I don’t see a vision like you did before 9/11.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[maryanna36]

I am a new member here. I signed up because I wanted to respond to questions about tears while praying. This has been a question of mine for the last several months.

I was also one of the stoics… However, in the last 8-9 months, I have rediscovered a spirituality in myself that must have been latent for a long time.

Now when I pray or meditate, I have tears flowing. I am not crying or sobbing at all. My eyes simply fill and overflow. I have little or no control over them. At first I thought they were tears of healing. But it is more than that. Sometimes, I feel anguish, yearning, sorrow, thankfulness, I think. I can’t really recognize joy yet in these tears.

My confessor tells me to ask God to direct me in these tears. That all is a gift that comes from God. That is what I am trying to do.

I’m glad that others experience similar tears.

 

[Denae]

I do occasionally at Mass. Like during the Consecration, when the priest lifts up the host and says “…this is My Body…” and when he lifts up the chalice and says “…this is My Blood…” I sometimes have to lower my head to hide the tears. It’s so overwhelming. Whenever I pray the sorrowful mysteries of the rosary, I cry too. It hits me every time…the enormity of Christ’s sacrifice for us, and just the vastness of His love for us just hits me like a ton of bricks. And I cry at adoration a lot. I remember the first adoration I had been to, I sobbed like a child while one of my best friends held me tight and he was crying too. Ever since, I cry at every one of them…usually not as hard, but yeah…It’s funny because outside of religion, it usually takes A LOT to make me cry…A LOT. But in Church and prayers and stuff like that, it’s easy to make me shed a tear…or several.

 

[LilyM]

Not actual tears, I’m not a cryer, but certainly bone-deep weepiness nonetheless, both over my own sinfulness and God’s goodness and mercy.

 

[mommyof4]

Yep, I cry when I pray. Prayer just seems to hit my emotions a lot.

 

[bstcy]

There are times when I’m moved by songs, by prayer, by contrition, by adoration… Sometimes when the Holy Spirit moves upon me and I begin praying in tongues, I weep uncontrollably.

Can’t say I’ve heard of the gift of tears.

But I’m afraid to be overcome by that kind of emotion when it comes time for my First Holy Communion whenever I am accepted in full communion within the Catholic Church. I’m sure I’ll blubber like a newborn baby.

 

[maryanna36]

I am trying to develop an attitude of “if the tears come, they come…” But, in a way, they disturb my prayer. Perhaps, the tears themselves are a different form of prayer. Anyway, if they happen, they happen.

My confessor says they come from God and he has seen them happen to me often. I have asked him simply to ignore them; that I will take care of them myself if need be. It is so strange, since I have never been a person who cries easily. Always a pillar of strength in difficult situations.

I’m glad there are others who experience somewhat similar reactions.

 

[YADA]

Sometimes I weep … other times I do not …

Prayer takes so many forms.

Prayers have different areas of focus too -

In my personal experience: tears would be more natural and likely for prayers of sorow and shame for sins -

Tears would be less likely for prayers of praise and wonder at the graciousness of God … though that is not absolute …

Prayers of thanksgiving may have tears but would tend to be joyfull …

Contemplative prayer may have neither sorrow nor joy - exactly - but be filled with the wonder of God …

 

[kate64]

I once visited a church where the traveling image of Our Lady of Guadalupe was. As I got closer to the image, strange feelings and great emotion overtook me. I began to weep as I got closer to view the image. I had the opportunity to touch the image and I felt the baby Jesus’s heartbeat three times. I was so overcome by this. I can’t find the words to explain. I sometimes get misty-eyed when I walk my dog when it is dark and I look up to the sky. As I walk my , I look up and thank Our Lord for all he has bestowed on us. Then I ask God why people abuse all that was created. Why do people have to be at war, abort, neglect, stop caring, abuse our environment,etc. Can’t explain these things. They just happen.

kate

 

[beckycmarie]

When tears come as a result of the “sweet anointing from the Comforter,” our spirit is refreshed inwardly and the body overflows with tears as a release to the intense “fire of love” or holy compunction which Judy speaks about above, depending on the way He moves us. I don’t know why the emotions cause this release, but it is a result of the giftedness of the Spirit, to which some have applied the term, “gift of tears.”

Dear Joysong,

Thank you so much for this description; I found it very helpful. What a gift it is to be moved to tears in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[tessi]

I cry a lot and it’s usually with a deep anguish, I can hardly pray without crying, the strange thing is that many times my tears come from my eyebrows as well as the eye, is that normal?

 

[Maria25]

Speaking of tears, does anyone know what the gift of tears actually is?

I have heard very little about it and sometimes wonder if it is another makey upey Charismatic thingy??

Apologies to Charismatics but I really don;t know very much about the movement at all. My ignorance … I already know.

I remember being in prayer one time. I wasn’t sad. Honestly, I don’t remember what I was praying about. Anyway, as I was praying, tears began to roll down my face. I felt very overwhelmed, in a good way though. I felt so full, like my chest was being filled. I just continued to pray and then a few days later read an article from CA the magazine on the gift of tears. I think it said something about the tears not being part of an emotion. Just thought this was interesting!