Do your children sleep in the bed with you?

[seekerz]

Perhaps the OP sees this as his wife already loving the kids more than him. Like it or not, many times, the husband comes last to everyone. It seems as though we are supposed to always bow to our wives, but it is okay for them to put kids before us–always.

I don’t care how strong of a man you are, you need to be the top priority in your wife’s life, at least sometimes. It hurts when you get kicked to the curb and nobody cares…

Followed this discussion with interest and I think you raise a valid point. I think priorities in marriage can get distorted when the couple does not put their relationship with each other before that with their kids. That’s not selfishness - rather, it’s a way to keep the marriage strong and preserve family stability. It sometimes seems that many parents find it hard to be a down to earth about kids and raise them on a pedestal, often to regret it later.

On the other hand, fathers can sometimes be unreasonably jealous of the attention their kids get. That’s just something couples have to work out together. Perhaps sharing those feelings you describe, regardless of whether they seem justified or not, is a good way to do that. Ultimatums don’t seem like a good way to go (neither is simply declaring defeat).

 

[zenith15]

I think the OP made a very reasonable case–he made allowances for kids who were sick, frightened by nightmares or bad weather, or were newborn nursers requiring through the night feeds. However, I have noticed that many women quite naturally “fall in love” with their new baby and want it with them constantly and are much more amenable to the whole “family bed” thing than dads are. For some women it may be an excuse not to have marital relations.

Whatever the reason may be, I do not think it is appropriate for a child over the age of a young infant to watch his parents make love. If a baby is old enough to sit up in a nearby crib or co sleeping cot or in the same bed and see what is going on they need to be in another room. Parents should not have to sneak out of their own bedroom to have sex (a tactic I have read about from family bed advocates), or have sex so quietly and motionlessly to avoid waking up a sleeping child nearby that it inhibits them tremendously. Yes I know this is done in other countries and the kids turn out ok but I still don’t think that makes it appropriate, especially in our culture, and I think it is more an outcome of poverty and lack of space rather than a planned thing for older kids to co sleep with parents in other countries.

My feeling is that at a certain point, obsessive attachment to a child being nearby constantly can become pathological and unhealthy–constant babywearing, co sleeping, breastfeeding long into preschool age and older. I mean I just don’t see how that can be healthy for a strong marital relationship, even if dad agrees in principle. I had three babies, nursed them all for about 5 months, kept a bassinet in the bedroom next to my bed, and then transferred them to their own room. To each his own but…mom and dad need privacy.

 

[CDB1718]

My feeling is that at a certain point, obsessive attachment to a child being nearby constantly can become pathological and unhealthy–constant babywearing, co sleeping, breastfeeding long into preschool age and older. I mean I just don’t see how that can be healthy for a strong marital relationship, even if dad agrees in principle. I had three babies, nursed them all for about 5 months, kept a bassinet in the bedroom next to my bed, and then transferred them to their own room. To each his own but…mom and dad need privacy.

Obsessive and pathological are harsh words to be throwing around. Anything can be taken to an extreme, but I don’t see anyone obsessively posting here to advocate going to a child’s school to nurse.

Formula-fed children sleep longer between feedings because the formula isn’t digested as effectively, taking longer for the body to make use of it. The AAP, not known for being cozy with the more natural parenting crowd, recommends nursing to age 2. A child can get all his needed nutrition from mom until then. Formula-feeding is only recommended until age 1 because formula can’t change to meet the child’s nutritional needs like breastmilk can.

It isn’t a mental illness to feed or nurture your child. Children who have insecurities or anxieties might be benefited from closer contact to their parents. Pushing such children to separate earlier or more often might increase their biological predisposition to anxiety. Neurology studies are showing benefits in self-esteem, curiosity, and self-confidence in all children raised in this more traditional way compared to the American mainstream. The levels of depression and lack of fulfillment or happiness in our society show that something isn’t working. Probably many somethings. It isn’t a mental illness to look to history or other cultures when deciding what one values as a parent.

Moms need breaks and couples need alone time. Every parent has to intentionally make time for this. Different people have different needs and ways of doing that which respect their schedules and temperaments. If weaning at 5 months with separate bedrooms worked well for you and your children are today well-balanced and happy adults, all the better! Labeling those who do things differently as having mental health disorders doesn’t help this husband who is trying to work things out with his wife.

 

[EasterJoy]

aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/pediatrics;116/5/1245.pdf
“The safest place for an infant to sleep is in a crib in the parents’ room for the first 6 months of life.”

It’s not about the parents hearing the baby; it’s about the baby hearing the parents, which helps them be more arousable and less prone to periods of apnea. Turns out that some of the synchronization of sleep cycles and breathing, etc, that happen during co-bedding also happen when the baby is not quite so close to the mom.

I don’t know where you came up with the causal explanation for why this is the best idea, because I can’t find anything like that in the primary literature. This seems reasonable to me, because proving your explanation would be extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, in a world in which humans cannot be kept in captivity for scientific research. SIDS isn’t that common! If anything, the multivariate analysis speaks against your explanation, unless you can explain how that fits with a difference only seen between parents who are smokers and non-smokers. It would seem to me that this would take some significant leap in the imagination. Scientists prefer explanations more in keeping with the demands of Occam’s Razor.

Go to the primary literature, namely Bedsharing, Roomsharing, and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome in Scotland: A Case-control Study, The Journal of Pediatrics, Volume 147, Issue 1 , Pages 32-37, July 2005

“Separate room not sharing (Table I) was not associated with a risk of SIDS on univariate analysis (OR 1.32 95% CI 0.67, 2.60) but became a risk on multivariate analysis (OR 3.26 95% CI 1.03, 10.35). Variables were removed singly to ascertain which were important in converting a nonsignificant univariate model to a significant multivariate model. The main factor was parental smoking. Further stratified analysis showed that separate room was associated with a significant risk of SIDS only if a parent smoked (OR 12.2 95% CI 2.25, 66.4) and not if parents were nonsmokers (OR 1.25 95% CI 0.16, 10.06).”

[Separate room sharing, by the way, referred to the infant sharing a bed with another child, such as a twin, in a room separate from the parents.]

 

[Musician]

To the OP:
My husband believed like you when we first had a baby. It just didn’t feel right to me to be away from my baby when he wanted only to be with me, so although I wanted to please my husband, I had to do what felt right with the baby.
Please try to understand your wife’s perspective; she isn’t rejecting you, she just needs to be with the baby for now.
You’ll find that the children grow up so fast that you’ll look back at this time with fondness.

 

[EasterJoy]

To the OP:
My husband believed like you when we first had a baby. It just didn’t feel right to me to be away from my baby when he wanted only to be with me, so although I wanted to please my husband, I had to do what felt right with the baby.
Please try to understand your wife’s perspective; she isn’t rejecting you, she just needs to be with the baby for now.
You’ll find that the children grow up so fast that you’ll look back at this time with fondness.

Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe it doesn’t have to be either/or.

Too many couples see their last child leave home only to find that they’ve let themselves become strangers. I’m not against the whole idea of co-sleeping, but the “although I wanted to please my husband, I had to do what felt right with the baby” and “she isn’t rejecting you, she just needs to be with the baby for now” thing can be taken too far. One parent may not want to reject the other, but that can be the ultimate effect of choosing childcare over marriagecare. There needs to be a balance, and not entirely of the delayed gratification kind, either.

I think the main thing is to make parenting decisions together, without one side unilaterally dictating what is going to happen to the other, particularly on very big issues like this. A marriage can fly by, just like a childhood. You need to manage that time as one, because you won’t get it back.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I don’t know where you came up with the causal explanation for why this is the best idea, because I can’t find anything like that in the primary literature. ]

Jim McKenna’s research is getting pretty old, but it was his sleep studies that showed the syncronization of sleep and the increased arousal and breastfeeding while cosleeping.

 

[Em_in_FL]

LOL… my husband slept in the other room because he wanted to SLEEP. Even when we’ve had kids who slept in a crib in their own rooms it was disturbing to him to have me wake up to the crying and leave to go feed/change the baby… then coming back into bed… all that was enough to rouse him and he was not getting enough rest.
So, for the sake of everyone’s sanity it became in EVERYONE’s best interest for him to go get some sleep and for me to bring the baby into bed or in the bassinet in our room. Then I got a lot more rest too since I didn’t have to walk down the hall to the other room.
Our reasoning was practical… and intimacy was not lacking… we just got creative with our timing and our locations.
(hence… my signature…)

 

[28562]

Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe it doesn’t have to be either/or.

Too many couples see their last child leave home only to find that they’ve let themselves become strangers. I’m not against the whole idea of co-sleeping, but the “although I wanted to please my husband, I had to do what felt right with the baby” and “she isn’t rejecting you, she just needs to be with the baby for now” thing can be taken too far. One parent may not want to reject the other, but that can be the ultimate effect of choosing childcare over marriagecare. There needs to be a balance, and not entirely of the delayed gratification kind, either.

I think the main thing is to make parenting decisions together, without one side unilaterally dictating what is going to happen to the other, particularly on very big issues like this. A marriage can fly by, just like a childhood. You need to manage that time as one, because you won’t get it back.

This is what I would be worried about. To me, when you have kids, it’s easy to be a good parent. It’s not as easy to be married. At least not for us. I have no problem focusing on us for a little while, my wife sometimes has trouble with that. Maybe the OP is the same???

 

[Jennifer_J]

I don’t know where you came up with the causal explanation for why this is the best idea, because I can’t find anything like that in the primary literature. This seems reasonable to me, because proving your explanation would be extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, in a world in which humans cannot be kept in captivity for scientific research. SIDS isn’t that common! If anything, the multivariate analysis speaks against your explanation, unless you can explain how that fits with a difference only seen between parents who are smokers and non-smokers. It would seem to me that this would take some significant leap in the imagination. Scientists prefer explanations more in keeping with the demands of Occam’s Razor.

Go to the primary literature, namely Bedsharing, Roomsharing, and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome in Scotland: A Case-control Study, The Journal of Pediatrics, Volume 147, Issue 1 , Pages 32-37, July 2005

“Separate room not sharing (Table I) was not associated with a risk of SIDS on univariate analysis (OR 1.32 95% CI 0.67, 2.60) but became a risk on multivariate analysis (OR 3.26 95% CI 1.03, 10.35). Variables were removed singly to ascertain which were important in converting a nonsignificant univariate model to a significant multivariate model. The main factor was parental smoking. Further stratified analysis showed that separate room was associated with a significant risk of SIDS only if a parent smoked (OR 12.2 95% CI 2.25, 66.4) and not if parents were nonsmokers (OR 1.25 95% CI 0.16, 10.06).”

[Separate room sharing, by the way, referred to the infant sharing a bed with another child, such as a twin, in a room separate from the parents.]

Please read Dr. McKenna’s research into this:
cosleeping.nd.edu/

cosleeping.nd.edu/frequently-asked-questions/#3
<<The short-term dependence on the proximity of a caregiver for physiological regulation, and protection is just finally being recognized scientifically as being extremely important and beneficial (see Barak et al. 2011 Should Neonates Sleep Alone, downloadable from this website) Mosko et al., 1998; McKenna et al 2007), and helps to explain why infants should avoid sleeping alone outside the sensory range by which a caregiver and infant detect each others sensory signals, cues, or stimuli, all of which facilitate and represent interactions that augment neurological connections and provide the foundation for the development of cognition and intellectual development, and the proliferation of neural networks that support these systems.>>

<< Moreover, at birth the infant’s breathing i.e. respiratory system is also not yet fully developed, as regards complete control of both voluntary and involuntary breathing and the relationship between the two systems especially during sleep (see McKenna et al 2007 for explanation and McKenna 1986); nor is the infant’s thermo-regulatory system developed as the infant is unable to shiver, for example, to keep its own body warm. Indeed, the human infant’s physiology is not designed to function optimally outside the context by which usually the breastfeeding mother can compensate for the infants developmental (neurological) vulnerabilities. In a sense proximity to parents during the night acts as a buffer between the immature infant and the microenvironment within which it lives. >>

 

[Jennifer_J]

My feeling is that at a certain point, obsessive attachment to a child being nearby constantly can become pathological and unhealthy–constant babywearing, co sleeping, breastfeeding long into preschool age and older. I mean I just don’t see how that can be healthy for a strong marital relationship, even if dad agrees in principle. I had three babies, nursed them all for about 5 months, kept a bassinet in the bedroom next to my bed, and then transferred them to their own room. To each his own but…mom and dad need privacy.

Fascinating. I guess I should worry about our marital relationship, since I’ve been “obsessively attached” to 7 children over the last 17 years. There is nothing weird or wrong with babywearing, co sleeping or extended breastfeeding. In fact, that’s normal. What’s abnormal is our culture’s obsession with making infants and young children INDEPENDENT at all costs. We are biologically wired to need mothers close for a long time, but our society doesn’t value this aspect of mothering. But you are right, to each their own. It would be nice if you actually followed your own advice instead of calling names.

 

[zenith15]

No, it isn’t “normal” to nurse one’s child til the age of 5 and even older, to wear them in a sling when they are readily able to walk about, to have everyone sleeping in a “family bed” til their teen years and beyond–other cultures may do some of these things due to lack of HAVING more than one room rather than family intimacy. But I see many mothers become literally so in love with their babies that they neglect the PRIMARY relationship which is with the spouse to dote upon the baby 24-7 making certain it never cries, never has to learn to wait for anything, and is always the center of mom’s attention. And as I said, to each his own, but I would not appreciate having to “get creative with time and place” just to participate in normal marital intimacy because all my kids were piled up in my bed.

 

[Lacour]

No, it isn’t “normal” to nurse one’s child til the age of 5 and even older, to wear them in a sling when they are readily able to walk about, to have everyone sleeping in a “family bed” til their teen years and beyond–other cultures may do some of these things due to lack of HAVING more than one room rather than family intimacy. But I see many mothers become literally so in love with their babies that they neglect the PRIMARY relationship which is with the spouse to dote upon the baby 24-7 making certain it never cries, never has to learn to wait for anything, and is always the center of mom’s attention. And as I said, to each his own, but I would not appreciate having to “get creative with time and place” just to participate in normal marital intimacy because all my kids were piled up in my bed.

I haven’t heard anyone discuss breast feeding a kindergardener or sleeping with a teenager. It sounds to me like you are prejudging people based on some extremes that I frankly think are extremely uncommon.

And I don’t know why the moms keep getting attacked. Dads also want what’s best for their kids which is why my husband is the first one to defend cosleeping and extended nursing. My husband thinks its his job to make sure the kids and I are happy and cared for and will make sure we are even at the expense of his convenience.

It probably doesn’t hurt that he enjoys the creativity with time and place, but to each his own.

 

[28562]

It probably doesn’t hurt that he enjoys the creativity with time and place, but to each his own.

You are assuming that everyone’s wife continues to at least attempt to make time for the husband…it’s not always the case. If so, I am sure that husbands would meet the idea of cosleeping with more of an open mind. If not, the kids are one more thing that keeps him from the top of his wife’s priority list. We don’t know which way the OP feels, because he never posted on this thread again. Just keep it in mind though…

 

[EvelynEVF]

You are assuming that everyone’s wife continues to at least attempt to make time for the husband…it’s not always the case. If so, I am sure that husbands would meet the idea of cosleeping with more of an open mind. If not, the kids are one more thing that keeps him from the top of his wife’s priority list. …

I have a suspicion, and personal experience, that attached parenting is not so often a cause of marital distress as a convenient scapegoat for tensions that already existed. It takes a very mature man to see the visceral bond between mother and child, and not be threatened by it. The happiest postpartum couples I’ve met had successfully become tryads rather than dyads because dad had figured out how to support his wife and she repaid him in spades.

 

[28562]

The happiest postpartum couples I’ve met had successfully become tryads rather than dyads because dad had figured out how to support his wife and she repaid him in spades.

This makes complete sense…but what happens when the dad supports his wife and child to the fullest and nothing is ever returned? Even if he does it with the best of intentions and never EXPECTS anything in return, other than a happy wife and child…it still hurts and resentment will soon follow if there is never any reciprocation.

 

[Cat]

I suspect that there is a reason why the OP is taking a very rigid stance on this issue, and I’m guessing that the reason is his personal experience. He has seen or participated in behaviors that seemed to him to produce negative outcomes.

Many on this thread have posted good experiences and positive outcomes with co-sleeping, and perhaps if the OP is still reading, he will see that it is possible for co-sleeping to be a good thing and that he can soften his rigid stance. Or maybe not–if he has been marked in some way by a very bad experience, it will be difficult for him to see any good.

I agree with all who say that the biggest issue is not co-sleeping, but rather, communication and cooperation between spouses. There must be agreement. Disagreement between spouses over childrearing techniques is a huge error and has very negative consequences for the children.

It would be good for the couple to arrive at an agreement on the issue of co-sleeping before the children start arriving, but they would be wise to be willing to adjust their stance depending on the needs of the children, mother, and father. Never say never in childrearing.

 

[EvelynEVF]

This makes complete sense…but what happens when the dad supports his wife and child to the fullest and nothing is ever returned? Even if he does it with the best of intentions and never EXPECTS anything in return, other than a happy wife and child…it still hurts and resentment will soon follow if there is never any reciprocation.

I don’t know, because I’ve never actually seen it not work out if dad is doing his best, unless there are extraordinary strains like ppd or a sick baby. Professional help could surely be useful, as it would hopefully be when the catalyst is anything else.

 

[28562]

I don’t know, because I’ve never actually seen it not work out if dad is doing his best, unless there are extraordinary strains like ppd or a sick baby. Professional help could surely be useful, as it would hopefully be when the catalyst is anything else.

Forgive me for my negative and jaded posts…it is just how I am feeling lately and this website is my only outlet for my true feelings. I cover them up everywhere else, as I am sure many unhappy dads do. We are not supposed to struggle with things like this…which makes our wives unhappy…which makes us worse…what a vicious cycle.

Perhaps the OP is the same? Perhaps he isn’t…but the rainbow and puppy dog crowd needs to see the other side sometimes. If for no other reason than a warning for how your husband may start to feel if you stop doing such a good and perfect job.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Struggle away—we’re all human. I’m far from rainbows and puppy dogs, as I had to divorce a mentally ill husband who was actually able to hold it all together pretty well until the strain of children coming along. I know firsthand how responsive mothering can be what blows down the whole house of cards. I have no regrets, because I’m sure my parenting choices protected my kids from some of the terrible effects of what was pretty much inevitable.

I’d love to know how people in healthy marriages negotiate these sorts of things.