Do your children sleep in the bed with you?

[joshkt79]

Paradoxically, you will find that it is your devotion as a father that can in many ways make you the most attractive husband to your wife, because it shows your esteem for what is otherwise “her job”. When you directly put your hand to taking care of the children–not just the “support” work, but when you make the things that demand attention in real time a matter of “our work”–then you will have more traction when you go about making both parental and marriage decisions with her.

The same goes with giving in on things like who she does and doesn’t want helping you to do the heavy work of moving your belongings to your new house. When she knows you are willing to advocate for what you want, but then without manipulation or pressure are also willing to decide freely to do things her way, that is a very powerful statement of love and affection for many women.

It can be very hard to work out marriage and parenting without it ending up a power struggle or a monarchy over the vanquished and resigned…resigned until middle-age, that is. It is very much worth working patiently through these conflicts, though. Staying faithfully with that task, through both difficulty and occasional failure, is the place from which the great (rather than merely durable) lifelong marriages grow.

It may sound like I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth, because to some extent I am…that is, I don’t think you can look at this as “why doesn’t she have to do what I have to do?” The way you look at compromise and the way she does will look different, because the best results come when you both feel willing to go far more than half way. That starts with being willing to go far more than half way on the days when you feel as if you are the only one willing to go anywhere at all! So while you advocate for her enjoying the best motherhood by also giving and taking the best as wife, too, remember that being the best husband will very often mean putting fatherhood first, for the sake of your wife. It is a dance, and a balance, and very much a live show with many surprises, and no mail-in ahead answers.

I still agree:thumbsup: with everything you said.

I have to say this though, I know quite a few people that put EVERYTHING into their children and very little to their husbands. Can you guess where they are today? NOT together. I’m not saying you can’t put your kids first, but the ones that go overboard end up paying for it in the long run, once your kids are grown and out of the house.

 

[EasterJoy]

I still agree:thumbsup: with everything you said.

I have to say this though, I know quite a few people that put EVERYTHING into their children and very little to their husbands. Can you guess where they are today? NOT together. I’m not saying you can’t put your kids first, but the ones that go overboard end up paying for it in the long run, once your kids are grown and out of the house.

Another idea is this: Get the book “The 5 Love Languages” by Gary Chapman. Figure out what makes your wife feel loved and what makes you feel loved. Once you’ve done that–most wives would be thrilled if their husband ever took it upon himself to read a book like this!!–I think you’ll be showing each other a lot of husband-wife love, and not just the parental kind, even while the kids are very small. There is something about a guy that is always making loving overtures that even a dyed-in-the-wool “mom-type” cannot resist!!\

IOW, if you want her to treat you like a king, treat her like a queen. If you (plural) get into the habit of looking after your marriage, you’ll see the results in your parenting, just like exercising shows up in feeling better at work. With that foundation, the question of how to raise the heirs will undoubtedly be worked through with far fewer problems.

 

[Cat]

I still agree:thumbsup: with everything you said.

I have to say this though, I know quite a few people that put EVERYTHING into their children and very little to their husbands. Can you guess where they are today? NOT together. I’m not saying you can’t put your kids first, but the ones that go overboard end up paying for it in the long run, once your kids are grown and out of the house.

I know I have posted this on CAF before, but it’s worth a repeat.

These are the lyrics to a very poignant song by Wayne Watson called “Watercolor Ponies.”

lyricsmania.com/watercolor_ponies_lyrics_wayne_watson.html

There is a very good line in that song about what the parents will do when the children are gone and it’s “just me and you.” Watson is a Christian, BTW, and this song was aired only on Christian radio stations, at least as far as I know. Too bad.

I suggest finding the song on Youtube and giving it a listen, as long as you don’t mind music of the 1980s. It’s a beautiful song.

 

[ryecroft]

Our kids slept with us when they were little and my youngest still does - he’s 17 months and still nursing. I don’t see how drawing a hard line about the “marital bed” (what an odd term) is helpful or compassionate. To be honest, if my husband told me that he’d rather sleep on the sofa than share the bed with our child, I would think him quite the oaf. Luckily, my husband is very flexible, positive and we’re on the same page with this type of thing.

Our sex life is fantastic and is affected very little by cosleeping. Our sleep life has been better… But we have kids! You don’t have to cosleep, it doesn’t fit every family, but please, lighten up and quit the ultimatums and dramatic threats. Your wife is going to see this as a “my husband or my child” thing, and trust me, you will lose - if not in the bed, in her heart.

Completely agree - when it comes to a situation of “choose between husband or child” 9 times out of 10 the husband will be ‘sleeping on the couch’ as you put it. If you really want there to be this hard a line, I’d say make sure you get a very, very comfortable sofa!
God Bless
Rye

 

[ryecroft]

:sad_yes:

I have read many posts by men who have been kicked out of their own bed and end up sleeping on the couch because their wife cannot say no to a child sleeping in bed with her…but in effect, she says no to her husband, who was there before the child. It is sad.

She wasn’t the one threatening or giving an ultimatum - the husband would be the one causing his own extrication to the couch - by giving an ultimatum, he’s deciding his own fate if the wife doesn’t agree to his desire.
God Bless
Rye

 

[EasterJoy]

Completely agree - when it comes to a situation of “choose between husband or child” 9 times out of 10 the husband will be ‘sleeping on the couch’ as you put it. If you really want there to be this hard a line, I’d say make sure you get a very, very comfortable sofa!
God Bless
Rye

If he draws a hard line in which he will bear the consequences of a continuing disagreement over childrearing by kicking himself out of his own bedroom, that is not going to be a fun couch, and I don’t care how much stuffing is in it. He may as well build a cave in the garage.

 

[zenith15]

What? What are you talking about? No one here is talking about family bed with teens or super extended nursing. I have nursed a child until he was 4, because he needed it–whether you think he did or not. I doubt you’ve seen any of the above you posted, either. Babies ARE the center of mom’s attention, because they need it-it doesn’t spoil them to respond to their cues and communications. That’s the way it is. Caring for infants is a 24/7 job that usually falls to mom. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t appreciate finding a different place for intimacy, it’s not like the marital bed is something magical or sacramental or anything. It’s a bed. Primarily used for sleeping. Again, you need to respect others choices in matters of raising children and not drag up such extreme examples. For most parents who subscribe to attachment parenting, your above examples don’t apply.

WHat I said was that children of preschool age (i.e. 4-5) and older have no real nutritional need to continue nursing, and while it may make the child feel more secure at first to continue sleeping with mom and dad, if they are accustomed t o sleeping in their own cosy room and know that mom and dad are just a door or two away and will readily respond to their needs they are almost always fine with that. Often it is the parent–usually the mom–who seems to have the most difficulty separating.

I don’t think it is in any way selfish or unyielding of the father to want alone time with his wife IN his bed and not have to get up and sneak carefully out to a couch or guest room or kitchen or what have you each time he wants intimacy. I mean, if they WANT to do that–BOTH spouses–more power to them, but I know that if I collapsed exhausted into a family bed with a twisting and turning nursing toddler and a newborn, say, and nursed and comforted them both to sleep after a long day of mothering, I would not be intrigued by the idea of getting back up ever so carefully so as not to disturb the sleepers and sneaking off to an unoccupied part of the house to be intimate, fearing all the while that the toddler might awaken and come in search of me.

I think past the point of the first 6 months or so there is nothing wrong with having the baby in it’s own room and as it becomes more mobile and can climb out of bed and wander, to have a lock on your bedroom door and/or train the child to knock first. I think a lot of dads want very much to do what is best for their wives and families and are told by certain groups and factions that if they do not agree to co-sleeping, baby wearing, extended nursing (past 3 or so), or extended late night nursing past the point where the child needs it nutritionally, etc they are selfish, bad dads. The PRIMARY bond is not mom-baby, it is wife-husband. That is not to say that small children–who tend to have frequent and time consuming needs–should be ignored or neglected–that is a time of life when the husband must naturally defer a good bit to the needs of mom and newborn. But that period should not last for YEARS.

 

[happymommy]

If he draws a hard line in which he will bear the consequences of a continuing disagreement over childrearing by kicking himself out of his own bedroom, that is not going to be a fun couch, and I don’t care how much stuffing is in it. He may as well build a cave in the garage.

 

[zenith15]

Fascinating. I guess I should worry about our marital relationship, since I’ve been “obsessively attached” to 7 children over the last 17 years. There is nothing weird or wrong with babywearing, co sleeping or extended breastfeeding. In fact, that’s normal. What’s abnormal is our culture’s obsession with making infants and young children INDEPENDENT at all costs. We are biologically wired to need mothers close for a long time, but our society doesn’t value this aspect of mothering. But you are right, to each their own. It would be nice if you actually followed your own advice instead of calling names.

Oh–and where, exactly, did I call anyone a “name”? I gave my general opinion that sometimes these things could become obsessive in some situations. I did NOT call anyone here or elsewhere a name.

 

[EasterJoy]

WHat I said was that children of preschool age (i.e. 4-5) and older have no real nutritional need to continue nursing, and while it may make the child feel more secure at first to continue sleeping with mom and dad, if they are accustomed t o sleeping in their own cosy room and know that mom and dad are just a door or two away and will readily respond to their needs they are almost always fine with that. Often it is the parent–usually the mom–who seems to have the most difficulty separating.

I don’t think it is in any way selfish or unyielding of the father to want alone time with his wife IN his bed and not have to get up and sneak carefully out to a couch or guest room or kitchen or what have you each time he wants intimacy. I mean, if they WANT to do that–BOTH spouses–more power to them, but I know that if I collapsed exhausted into a family bed with a twisting and turning nursing toddler and a newborn, say, and nursed and comforted them both to sleep after a long day of mothering, I would not be intrigued by the idea of getting back up ever so carefully so as not to disturb the sleepers and sneaking off to an unoccupied part of the house to be intimate, fearing all the while that the toddler might awaken and come in search of me.

I think past the point of the first 6 months or so there is nothing wrong with having the baby in it’s own room and as it becomes more mobile and can climb out of bed and wander, to have a lock on your bedroom door and/or train the child to knock first. I think a lot of dads want very much to do what is best for their wives and families and are told by certain groups and factions that if they do not agree to co-sleeping, baby wearing, extended nursing (past 3 or so), or extended late night nursing past the point where the child needs it nutritionally, etc they are selfish, bad dads. The PRIMARY bond is not mom-baby, it is wife-husband. That is not to say that small children–who tend to have frequent and time consuming needs–should be ignored or neglected–that is a time of life when the husband must naturally defer a good bit to the needs of mom and newborn. But that period should not last for YEARS.

Do you mean that a significant number of couples have their children sleeping with them on a regular basis until the children are three or four? *All *of them?

If that’s the case, I would have thought that the California king would have been invented far sooner than it was.

 

[zenith15]

I haven’t heard anyone discuss breast feeding a kindergardener or sleeping with a teenager. It sounds to me like you are prejudging people based on some extremes that I frankly think are extremely uncommon.

Depends I guess on what one means by “extended breastfeeding”, but I have been to La Leche League meetings where children of that age and beyond where being nursed, carried and worn in a sling way way past the age where that would be needed by the child. I think it is healthy for kids to get down, run around and play with other kids, explore their world, etc rather than being tied to mom 24-7. Not all sling users do this, obviously, nor all breastfeeders, etc. But some DO take it to an extreme and the dad often feels left out of the family dynamic–mom feeds baby, mom wears baby, mom is constantly attuned to baby’s every whimper (which I agree is a natural thing), mom sleeps with baby in arms–poor dad is bound to feel left out and rejected from time to time unless mom makes an effort to take his needs into consideration also. Sometimes this seems darn near impossible for moms of a newborn or of many young children and sex can almost begin–for some–to feel like another chore or another demand on an already overworked body, and husbands can sense this. Even if they understand they can still FEEL rejected.

That’s why I personally feel it’s best for kids who are old enough to sleep through the night without a feeding–and I don’t mean a comfort “feeding” where they are using mom as a pacifier–to have their own rooms–with a monitor if needed–so everyone can get their needed rest and mom and dad can have privacy.

 

[Lacour]

WHat I said was that children of preschool age (i.e. 4-5) and older have no real nutritional need to continue nursing, and while it may make the child feel more secure at first to continue sleeping with mom and dad, if they are accustomed t o sleeping in their own cosy room and know that mom and dad are just a door or two away and will readily respond to their needs they are almost always fine with that. Often it is the parent–usually the mom–who seems to have the most difficulty separating.

I don’t think it is in any way selfish or unyielding of the father to want alone time with his wife IN his bed and not have to get up and sneak carefully out to a couch or guest room or kitchen or what have you each time he wants intimacy. I mean, if they WANT to do that–BOTH spouses–more power to them, but I know that if I collapsed exhausted into a family bed with a twisting and turning nursing toddler and a newborn, say, and nursed and comforted them both to sleep after a long day of mothering, I would not be intrigued by the idea of getting back up ever so carefully so as not to disturb the sleepers and sneaking off to an unoccupied part of the house to be intimate, fearing all the while that the toddler might awaken and come in search of me.

I think past the point of the first 6 months or so there is nothing wrong with having the baby in it’s own room and as it becomes more mobile and can climb out of bed and wander, to have a lock on your bedroom door and/or train the child to knock first. I think a lot of dads want very much to do what is best for their wives and families and are told by certain groups and factions that if they do not agree to co-sleeping, baby wearing, extended nursing (past 3 or so), or extended late night nursing past the point where the child needs it nutritionally, etc they are selfish, bad dads. The PRIMARY bond is not mom-baby, it is wife-husband. That is not to say that small children–who tend to have frequent and time consuming needs–should be ignored or neglected–that is a time of life when the husband must naturally defer a good bit to the needs of mom and newborn. But that period should not last for YEARS.

I don’t train my kids, I teach them. I’m sure it’s just a personal pet peeve, but I’ve never liked the “train” word applied to kids. It suggests rote behavior rather than the application of learning.

I’m not sure why you are so convinced that a women can’t practice the basics of attachment parenting and have a good and strong marriage. There seems to be lots of proof on this board that the two are not mutually exclusive.

Who would co-sleep if it was anything like you described above? Perhaps you should set aside your preconceived notions of what cosleeping is about and listen to the multiple families on this board telling you that it has been good for the WHOLE family and not just the kids. What you are depicting is an extreme stereotype that seems to be perpetrated by the “expert baby trainers” out there (some of whom have actually been shown to cause more harm than good)…

 

[Cat]

I don’t train my kids, I teach them. I’m sure it’s just a personal pet peeve, but I’ve never liked the “train” word applied to kids. It suggests rote behavior rather than the application of learning.

I’m not sure why you are so convinced that a women can’t practice the basics of attachment parenting and have a good and strong marriage. There seems to be lots of proof on this board that the two are not mutually exclusive.

Who would co-sleep if it was anything like you described above? Perhaps you should set aside your preconceived notions of what cosleeping is about and listen to the multiple families on this board telling you that it has been good for the WHOLE family and not just the kids. What you are depicting is an extreme stereotype that seems to be perpetrated by the “expert baby trainers” out there (some of whom have actually been shown to cause more harm than good)…

Here’s my take on this.

For people like me and Zenith15, and possibly the OP, co-sleeping would be a miserable experience precisely because we would bring all of our background, upbringing, personal preferences, personal convictions, childrearing preferences, dislike of nursing lying down (discomfort for me), preferences about husband and wife in a bed together just cuddling not necessarily making love, sleeping habits, sleeping problems, etc. to the situation, and we would fulfill our own predictions and it would be just awful.

OTOH, couples like yours and Jennifer’s and others on this thread would bring all of their background, upbringing, personal preferences, sleeping preferences, etc. (same as above) to the situation, and* fulfill their own predictions*, and it would be just wonderful.

We can’t escape who we are. We shouldn’t criticize others for who they are.

Whether or not co-sleeping works will depend on who the couple is and what they bring to the situation.

All we can do is honor others, and as long as they are doing no harm and committing no sin, support them in who they are and how they choose to rear up their children.

I think we can all agree that there are many childrearing philosophies that are compatible with Christianity, and the children all seem to turn out OK.

I think we can also all agree that when there is conflict between husband and wife, the children are at risk of not turning out OK. THAT is the main issue that the OP and his spouse need to work out before they have children.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Do you mean that a significant number of couples have their children sleeping with them on a regular basis until the children are three or four? *All *of them?

If that’s the case, I would have thought that the California king would have been invented far sooner than it was.

I know a whole bunch, and I’m not exactly in a hippie part of the country. It’s not unusual to have a family bedroom, with more than one bed. Or more than one bedroom, and just play “musical beds.” Mom and dad may very well end up alone in a bed, just not always the same one.

And a child’s immune system does not mature until age 6, so it isn’t quite fair to say there is no need for nursing past toddlerhood (which might not have been your comment; I’m just responding in one post). They may not need the calories, but there is still a lot of benefit.

For those who haven’t experienced this, it’s quite normal for a child to nurse a dozen times a day up to around two years old, but then they generally taper off pretty quickly and an older toddler might nurse a couple/few times per day, mostly around naptime and bedtime. Trips to school would not be necessary I speak to college classes on a regular basis, and learned to my surprise that a lot of them believe that a 4yo nurses as often as a newborn. I was glad to clear that up!

 

[EvelynEVF]

You make an excellent point!

I was never allowed in my parents’ bed, and even though I was just across the hall and could hear my dad snore all night, I still hated sleeping alone! Plus I had a high-need sick baby, plus I can nurse lying down without ever waking up, and I know what a huge blessing that is! So cosleeping came easily to me, and doesn’t carry any weird “baggage.” It’s just what worked best for my family.

I have friends who are light sleepers in a very different way, and they can’t assimilate little baby noises into their own sleep. They would go bonkers with a little one too close. Or an active baby who tosses and turns all night and needs plenty of space.

The best sleeping arrangement is the one where everybody goes to sleep happy and gets enough sleep.

 

[zenith15]

This is true–to each his own–but it has to please BOTH parents, not JUST mom. Some fathers may “go along to get along” but secretly feel neglected, while others may think the whole attachment parenting thing is great. I will admit I don’t think it is healthy when carried to what I consider an extreme but that is my opinion. But I have noted many moms who feel that when the baby comes along the hubby should just understand that he is to take a backseat to the “mother child bond” for as long as there are young children in the home, and unless he agrees fully with the whole philosophy and is genuinely happy with it, there is bound to be trouble, jealousy, whatnot. The wife-husband bond is the primary one, not mom-baby.

 

[zenith15]

I know a whole bunch, and I’m not exactly in a hippie part of the country. It’s not unusual to have a family bedroom, with more than one bed. Or more than one bedroom, and just play “musical beds.” Mom and dad may very well end up alone in a bed, just not always the same one.

And a child’s immune system does not mature until age 6, so it isn’t quite fair to say there is no need for nursing past toddlerhood (which might not have been your comment; I’m just responding in one post). They may not need the calories, but there is still a lot of benefit.

For those who haven’t experienced this, it’s quite normal for a child to nurse a dozen times a day up to around two years old, but then they generally taper off pretty quickly and an older toddler might nurse a couple/few times per day, mostly around naptime and bedtime. Trips to school would not be necessary I speak to college classes on a regular basis, and learned to my surprise that a lot of them believe that a 4yo nurses as often as a newborn. I was glad to clear that up!

I know of families with large beds, beds shoved together, kids bedded down on the floor in parents room, etc up to puberty. They are used to it and they are frightened to sleep alone.

When my young sons were weaned, around 5-6 months (I would have liked to nurse longer but circumstances did not permit it), I moved them to their own rooms so we could all get some better sleep. They were old enough to sleep through the night without a feeding physically. I would tuck them in with a lovey toy, a pacifier if they liked them (only one did), a song or two, and leave the room while they were still awake but drowsy. In all three cases, the first several nights of this resulted in a furious scream and a crying fit. I went back in at first every ten minutes to check on them and would say quietly “It’s time for bed” without picking them up or turning on the light. Then I would go back in 15 minutes and repeat the procedure–then twenty. By t hat time they would almost always have gone to sleep. This usually lasted 3-4 nights with shorter crying spells each night. WIthin a week all 3 were sleeping through the night in their own rooms. Some may feel that is cruel.Others may not. It worked well for our family. Others may prefer more closeness for longer periods–but again, it should not interfere with the marital intimacy.

 

[mini_me640]

Ultimately there’s no point in debating the various approaches to parenting here as there are many different approaches that work for different families. The real issue here is that OP and his wife need to figure out something that works for their family. Asking random people on the Internet isn’t going to fix their situation; they need to communicate with each other.

 

[maryjk]

The best sleeping arrangement is the one where everybody goes to sleep happy and gets enough sleep.

That arrangement may change as lives change.

Our son, premature, slept in our room for a long time. He came home from the hospital and was in our room for at least 6 months.

He went into his own room, because no one was sleeping well.

He came back into our room, on the floor, when he was 10 because of some very major health issues in the family. He was afraid of losing his parents. He weaned himself back to his own room, when his life felt stable again.

He slept in the living room for a while, when his grandparents died. As did I.

Things are always changing and evolving. Most nights, I am in bed with my husband and our son is in his bed across the house. Sometimes, no one is where they “should be.”

 

[ringil]

I am a father but I think any breastfeeding past 3 is getting weird. I know that it is done internationally but it still seems strange to me. Ours stopped at about 18 months I guess. My daughter is now almost 3 and I really couldn’t imagine her still nursing.

Regarding sleeping, she starts in her bed and ends up in ours some time during the night. It doesn’t really bother me, other than being crowded.